mistakes of god


He was also indistinct. How he raged at us, this wrath snorter, because we understood him badly! But why did he not speak more clearly?

And if the fault lay in our ears, why did he give us ears that heard him badly? If there was dirt in our ears, well! who put it in them?

Too much miscarried with him, this potter who had not learned thoroughly! That he took revenge on his pots and creations, however, because they turned out badly- that was a sin against GOOD TASTE.

F. Nietzsche

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

23 thoughts on “mistakes of god

  1. john zande says:

    The angry, unskilled, hopeless potter. What a great way of presenting it.

    Like

  2. Real real me says:

    It is well written, but I don’t agree with your view. God tests us to see if we’d choose Him or the devil.

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      why for instance would an omniscient being test us? Don’t you think he already knows the result?

      Like

      • Real real me says:

        Wow, I understand your point. I know that in my religion people that will be saved are written in the Lamb’s book of life. I believe that this life on earth we have will serve us to understand why some of us will be saved, why others won’t. Why would He test us? Because He loves us and wants everyone to be saved. He GIVES us choice.

        Like

        • makagutu says:

          You are attending a course unit and the lecturer tells you he has already awarded marks at the beginning of the course to various students and these marks will not change, are you still going to attend the lecture since you can’t know who is in the list?
          Now to say that god has a book of life, is irresponsible on his part for why create man with free choice and then punish him for choosing? Either we have free choice and can choose or we don’t have? Which do you want?

          Like

          • Real real me says:

            I disagree with the comparison, but I would attend to that course because I don’t know the chosen students (maybe I’m one of them). About the part “punish him for choosing”, there is a whole history behind it. I believe you’ve heard of the wrath of God. Originally God gave power to the angels but one abused it against Him. My point is that we should hate evil (that’s why we are given hate as feeling), not God or the people.
            Understand? I’ve learnt that God wants us to become gods and we can achieve it ONLY we obey Him and His rules. The pain of the sins of the others against us is much easier knowing that the LORD will reward us with eternity.
            Even though we have different point of view, I believe being open is a good thing, and I am asking you Have you been on TV or on some religious debate?

            Like

            • makagutu says:

              At what point do you disagree with the comparison? You say god is testing us and I ask you why must he test us?
              My friend I have no belief in ghosts, angels, gods or whatever supernatural beings you may imagine. Hate is not given us by gods, we only hate because we are capable of showing feeling.
              Nope, have not been on TV or a religious debate, here is my forte where everyone is free to express their honest thoughts.
              How did you learn what gods wants from us?

              Like

              • Real real me says:

                Logically those who truly worship God will enter in His kingdom, those who don’t respect Him and His rules are not in that book of life indicating that they won’t be saved. God tests us because He LOVES us (And we love because He loved us first). He gave the mankind another chance after the original sin, so in order to show our love for Him, we are being tested because if He want us to become gods, we must deserve it. If you don’t believe in supernatural things, I want to know do you believe in Jesus and how do you explain his existence on Earth. I learnt what God wants from us by reading orthodox magazines and reading the Bible.

                Like

                • makagutu says:

                  I think it is a contradiction of terms to say there is logic in believing that some people will go to heaven and others to hell for eternity because of a few choices they made while here when they couldn’t have done differently unless you mean logically flawed then that makes perfect sense 🙂
                  I read somewhere it was for the love of man that god died, please don’t resurrect any god. The world is better with the gods dead.
                  I don’t think Jesus existed, that he was born of a virgin and that he died to to at-one of our sins in the great at-one-[mo]ment. You see I lack a belief in gods, so how would say that he was a son of a god? That would be a contradiction, don’t you think? There are those who say such a man may existed but that the many things alluded to have been done or said by him are later additions, that he didn’t make this claims about himself.
                  I read the bible too, and I have learnt among other things he has no problem with owning slaves, killing of people who are not members of the tribe, that he is so concerned about offering made by priests, that he is jealous and also that he is the author of evil and good and most of all that his modus operandi is killing everyone except those responsible. I can’t believe in this god and I ask everyone not to believe in such a capricious, sadistic and cruel god, if it exists!

                  Like

                  • Real real me says:

                    I don’t understand what’s your meaning of “logically flawed” that makes a perfect sense. I just wanted to know whether you believe that Jesus existed as a historical person (as I know you’re an atheist). I haven’t read the whole Bible, but I’m sure there is explanation about Jesus’s actions that you can’t understand as Godly. He is of love. Yet it’s your choice whether to believe or not.

                    Like

                    • makagutu says:

                      And you have my answer. I don’t think he did exist, there is little evidence to support that position. I don’t think anyone can choose what to or not to believe.
                      If as you say, my friend, that there are some parts of the bible where Jesus actions are not godly, and he is god incarnate according to the christian doctrine, is there any justification for believing in him? At least he should have been consistent if he was a god and he existed, don’t you think.
                      On logically flawed, I don’t think belief in any deity or religion follows a logical thought process.

                      Like

                    • Real real me says:

                      How do you mean you don’t think anyone can choose what to or not to believe? In my opinion it’s our choice whether to believe in what our parents taught us or to deny the religion.
                      I do believe that there is justification to believe in Jesus as He completed most of His words with actions (though some of them were metaphorical). We have a promise that eventually He will return on the Earth, so I believe that that will happen.

                      Like

    • makagutu says:

      I say that you can’t choose what to believe since you don’t have that option. You were probably taught about christianity as a child, you had no opportunity to consider this outrageous claims. I didn’t choose to become an atheist, no it is a result of seeking god and ending up with me at the end. As F.N said, god died for his love for man.
      I insist and always will insist there is no reason to believe in anything without supporting evidence unless you believe just for the sake of belief and live it privately, then by all means believe in Santa, in Unicorns and tooth fairies, just don’t make any outrageous claims that are contra nature

      Like

      • Real real me says:

        Ok, I see we can’t agree. One of the reasons I still believe it’s that according to me our lives have much more sense with the existence of God. I believe that miracles happen and I am saying it because I experienced (at least) one of them. I suggest we to stop with this conversation, if you want to know about my views, keep reading my blog (after all it’s a diary about CHANGING myself). I can say that your style is very interesting on your blog as you are open, spontaneous, firm, having faith in yourself. Btw, the part “that was a sin against GOOD TASTE” made me laugh.

        Like

        • makagutu says:

          Am glad we can have this discussion, we don’t have to agree but can remain civil in the disagreement, that is a healthy debate. You know I will come to your blog, I like those conversations you have with yourself.
          Thanks for the kind words, how else would we entertain ourselves if our conversations remained dull?

          Like

  3. Certainly was great with words. Here’s where I feel the analogy crumbles a little:
    It isn’t that God is angry with us because we turned out badly. It is more a case of God being horrified that we, after all we ad been given, decided to reject our creator in favour of self gratification.
    To be honest, If I poured all my love, effort and energy into doing something amazing for you and your response was to shun me, I’d be pretty angry too.

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      For the sake of argument we will assume that your particular god exists and that he created us; if you look at your bible, god is definitely angry with his creation and drowns everyone save for Noah’s household of 8. He is definitely angry when he descends on Sodom and Gomorrah with hailstorm and brimstone and he must have had a bad fit when he killed the firstborns of Egypt including the children of the slave women.
      And he was certainly having a bad Friday, I guess he was broke, when he killed the child born of David and Uriah’s wife.
      He had a bad hair-day when he chased Adam and Eve out of the garden.
      He asks to forgive our enemies, does he forgive his?

      Like

      • Yes, 100%. Something you come to understand as a Christian is that, when you look at God’s anger as a non believer, you see it in an entirely different light. God is perfect and just in all that he does. Human anger and perfectly just anger are two different things.

        In addition, you cannot form an argument about the wrath of God without taking the new testament into account. In Jesus, God is able to reconcile us to him and remove the need for anger.

        There’s a really great argent about this in the Bible itself. Read the book of Romans, Paul tackles this meaty problem head on.

        Like

        • makagutu says:

          You may not have seen the post where I give my background, when you do, you’ll know I was brought up in a christian family so I pretty much understand how the christian sees god. If you tell me in asking a man to kill his only child that is perfection, then why do we have laws against killing each other? We must be better than god don’t you think?
          Paul was angry a everything beautiful and a misogynist at heart. He has no kinds words for women and whoever wrote those epistles must however be thanked for developing christianity, without those letters there would likely to be no christianity.
          If in Jesus we are reconciled to him, why then does he still have a hell for non believers? What is the degree of this reconciliation and why is it conditional?

          Like

          • I feel, despite your upbringing, that you do not really understand what God is to a Christian. For example, you have outlined, in countless arguments against the existence of a God, the irrelevance of laws, the lack of need for creating etc. All of these concerns are adressed directly in the most important doctrine of Christian faith, the doctrine of the Trinity.

            Most of this post regards the laws, and I have answered that elsewhere so I’ll move straight on to Paul.
            Can you give me a definitive example (and not a throwaway verse taken out of context) as to why you believe Paul was angry at everything beautiful? I certainly don’t get that reading through the New Testament.

            As for the women hating: there are countless examples within Paul’s letters where he references women in his own life directly and, in each of those examples he has nothing but good things to say about them. I believe you are forming this opinion based on the teachings of some of these letters regarding the role of men and women in marriage etc. I have to suggest that you might benefit from a re-reading of these scriptures as Paul is certainly not the character you are portraying him as.

            “If in Jesus we are reconciled to him, why then does he still have a hell for non believers? What is the degree of this reconciliation and why is it conditional?”

            Good questions!

            We are only reconciled if we accept that reconciliation. God is so loving he allows us to make our own choices even the biggest ones! We can chose to be aware of Christ and the death on the cross and we can still chose to reject it.
            Hell is merely an eternity separate from God. At the time of death God is simply giving you what you wanted, an existence without God. It is conditional so that we are not forced into anything, it is conditional so that we have a choice.

            Hope this helps,

            Joe

            Like

  4. […] permission of a fine gentleman to share a discussion we have been having on this blog here, here, here and here. The reason we agreed to do this is to consolidate the different arguments in one place. I […]

    Like

We sure would love to hear your comments, compliments and thoughts.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s