Even god, if one were to exist, would not be free


In continuing to argue against free will our philosopher friend, using his simple logic shows us that even god if one were to exist wouldn’t act different to his nature and please if any of you can refute this, am game!

The world is a necessary agent; all the beings which compose it are united to each other, and can not do otherwise than they do, so long as they are moved by the same causes and possessed of the same qualities. If they lose these qualities, they will act necessarily in a different way. God Himself (admitting His existence a moment) can not be regarded as a free agent; if there existed a God, His manner of acting would necessarily be determined by the qualities inherent in His nature; nothing would be able to alter or to oppose His wishes. This considered, neither our actions nor our prayers nor our sacrifices could suspend or change His invariable progress and His immutable designs, from which we are compelled to conclude that all religion would be entirely useless.

Jean Meslier

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

14 thoughts on “Even god, if one were to exist, would not be free

  1. john zande says:

    If a god exists, and actually had a “plan” for us, then I for one will be in-line to throttle it. Of course that’s a whimsical thought as we know those first 4 words were is folly 😉

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    • makagutu says:

      I agree with you.
      I remember a discussion somewhere else where a theist sought to clarify our misconceptions of the bible and the discussion couldn’t take off since we were to start with genesis and verse 1 starts with in the beginning god… the brother was at pains to first explain the beginning and then god so the discussion collapsed even before it began.

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  2. emmylgant says:

    I am going to play the devil’s advocate here…
    “[god’s] manner of acting would necessarily be determined by the qualities inherent in His nature; nothing would be able to alter or to oppose His wishes.” Couldn’t the attributes of love and mercy mitigate the exacting justice attribute thereby allowing for a petition ( prayer) to change the outcome of a situation? Balancing two opposite attributes, would require making a choice and that I see as the exercise of free will.
    What am I not getting here guys?

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    • makagutu says:

      If we take it that he is all knowing, he can’t change what is going to happen in future and thus it’s a waste of time to pray to ask him for favours. He would act in a way and not the other besides the two attributes of all merciful and all just cannot exist in one person. You can only exercise one attribute or god would be forever confused on whether to be just or merciful.

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      • emmylgant says:

        His omnipotence allows him to do anything but change his mind?… Then he is no longer all powerful.

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        • makagutu says:

          I think the people who gave him this omni- abilities created a problem for god. There will always be a conflict in his nature making it impossible for him to exist or even do anything.

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          • emmylgant says:

            Just because one has the ability to do something perfectly, does it mean that it is the ONLY way one will do it? In othere words, is the exercise of omnipotence always required and necessary? Am I thinking in human terms again?

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            • makagutu says:

              What would be the point then of having that ability if one doesn’t apply it? I don’t think even humans do that. Many people do things to the best of their abilities.

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  3. A god cannot be omnipotent, omniscient and have free will. The logic of such a god giving humans free will is ludicrous. Such a god as Christians believe in failed many times… he started over several times by destroying everything (garden, flood, sacrifice etc.) apparently unable to know it would not work. Free will from such a god is stupid thinking. We have free will, but there is no philosophy involved. It is a result of having a conciousness. Being able to comprehend the world around us gives us the free will to interact with it. It is no more complex than that.

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    • makagutu says:

      consciousness is one thing that I think hasn’t been properly defined or understood(I could be wrong) but whatever it is, our ability to interact with the universe doesn’t explain free will.

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  4. […] have free will. I have written quite a number of posts that can be found here, here, here, here and here that try to espouse my thinking on the idea or opinions by other philosophers of old on […]

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