Silence


This is the second of the gifts from my good friend Meme.

The Koran seems to be silent on silence and the few places where it does talk about silence, it is asking that you be silent. This though shouldn’t worry us, there is a lot on silence we will talk about.

I guess we are a bit lucky, we have 3 mentions of silence or synonyms

And [mention, O Muhammad], when We directed to you a few of the jinn, listening to the Qur’an. And when they attended it, they said, “Listen quietly.” And when it was concluded, they went back to their people as warners.

The people who wrote the Koran believed in superstition. They believed as you can see in the above recitation one who believes in the existence of jinns. It is such kind of little things that help to show that the Koran just like the Torah and Bible originated from a very superstitious and ignorant era.

And if you [believers] invite them to guidance, they will not follow you. It is all the same for you whether you invite them or you are silent.

How wonderful would it be if the faithful followed this advice to just let those who don’t believe be? In Egypt a young Atheist is in jail for posting the stupid movie on Mo that led to the killing of the US ambassador to Libya.

So when the Qur’an is recited, then listen to it and pay attention that you may receive mercy.

This is the last mention of silence I got from the good book and I hope the Muslims follow this command as am sure they must. It really is a funny site passing by a mosque with all the asses facing one direction and all heads facing Mecca. I don’t think there is a rule they don’t follow.

I have been asking myself whether it is by design that the so called holy books are silent on the personages of their most important characters. The Koran tells us almost very little about Mo so much such that we can’t tell whether he was what we are told he was. The biography of Mo that we have is gleaned from hadiths that were written years after he supposedly lived. The Muslims believe the hadiths were composed following a very strict evidential procedure and to back them up they say Bukhari received over 600K collections and only found 7K to be authentic. It is from these that the life, exploits and teaching of the prophet is told. In future posts I will enlighten you on the evidential procedure employed by Bukhari in his momentous task.

Christians don’t fare any better on the question of silence. We are told when Jesus is born, the next time he is 12 and the next time we meet him he is 30. We have been told he died at age 33[I could be wrong] but my friends read any one of the gospels and try and trace his life from the time he is 30 to his suicide and we have a problem ofย arithmetic. Let me demonstrate; his first miracle is getting people drunk then follows a few sermons in random places, a few parables and then 40 day temptation, entry into Jerusalem, betrayal by Judas[I thought Jeebus was famous and known by every Tom Dick and Harry], suicide and resurrection. Unless this fellow used to preach once every 3 months, I think we will be at pains demonstrating that his mission lasted 3 years.

Something bothers me on this matter of silence too. If god is responsible for creating man, that is, male and female, did he consider half the human population so inappropriate to reveal his teachings to? This situation that has resulted in all the Abrahamic religions treating women as less equal to men whose only duty is to act as incubators. I need to know why the good books are silent on women and when they are talked about they are soย demonized!

Am waiting for any christian or Muslim to give me a bio of their supposed prophets.

That my friends is all on silence, we will in future attempt to write on GOLDFISH

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

47 thoughts on “Silence

  1. mixedupmeme says:

    Religion just tells everybody to stfu which is a nice way to say Stay Silent.

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  2. john zande says:

    Goldfish? Are you serious?

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  3. aguywithoutboxers says:

    A very astute and true observation of the Middle Eastern tradition of the subservient role of women. This is proof that that this inequality is based on cultural mores rather than divine instruction. As for silence, I agree with you that the leaders of these belief systems exemplify anything BUT that commandment, as they are all vocal in their condemnation of each other. They’re the first to proclaim that their deity “speaks” to them individually. However, how do they understand the message when they are so busy screaming at one another?

    As to the missing years in the lives of these alleged prophets of these Middle Eastern religions, they’re intentionally obscure and vague. It’s all part of the script so they can “ad lib” whenever necessary. Great post, as always. I love your silence, my brother! ๐Ÿ˜‰

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    • makagutu says:

      I hope my silence was not too silent on silence ๐Ÿ˜€
      I think the guys have to be fake to allow the believers to create whole passages from thin air and attribute to the said prophet or whatever else they call them.

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  4. If you have any theists show up on this thread, they’ll likely insist that their religion have no problem with women and golly, it’s to the woman’s advantage to be forced to wear something they can’t see in because men are assumed to have no brains and didn’t you see where JC said people were equal. Of course, that does get shot in the foot where Paul insists that women are only saved by childbirth, they should not speak in church, they should never teach men, etc. ๐Ÿ™‚ Sigh.

    Many theists say that one must listen and stay silent to truly hear their god, but alas their god must tell everyone a different story since our theists can’t agree on what this god really wants at all.

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    • makagutu says:

      They don’t show up here so often and when they do as they eventually do, most don’t comment. I hope they will share with us their thoughts someday.

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  5. paarsurrey says:

    Reblogged this on paarsurrey and commented:
    Paarsurrey:
    The verses quoted in the post do not mention the word “silence”;please correct me if I am wrong.

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    • makagutu says:

      Paarsurrey, either you don’t know how to read or just like having a conversation with me. I say there are mentions of silence or synonyms. And in the second paragraph in blue, there is the word silent. If you are going to defend your religion, be honest about it, but don’t make claims that are unsupported!

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  6. paarsurrey says:

    โ€œAnd [mention, O Muhammad], when We directed to you a few of the jinn, listening to the Qurโ€™an. And when they attended it, they said, โ€œListen quietly.โ€ And when it was concluded, they went back to their people as warners.โ€

    It was the sensible attitude of the visitors to Muhammad; one has to listen attentively when somebody speaks; otherwise one may misunderstand the person who is talking to them. I donโ€™t understand what is wrong in it. Please tell me.

    I think you missed to provide the reference with the verses of Quran; so that the viewers of the post could check it from the original source. It will be OK if you mention the reference now for the convenience of the viewers.

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  7. paarsurrey says:

    “The people who wrote the Koran believed in superstition. ”

    I think one did not understand the verse of Quran from the context verses. How could one understand when one has not read the Quran intently oneself?
    There is no superstition in Quran.
    Please elaborate in your own words as to what do you understand from the word “superstition”; kindly don’t quote from the dictionary, there are many availabe on-line, I want to understand the concept of the poster, please.

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    • makagutu says:

      Ah, so there are no mentions of supernatural causes in the Koran? There are no mentions of angels, demons and gods? You either are being intentionally obtuse or you are generally obtuse!

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  8. paarsurrey says:

    “And if you [believers] invite them to guidance, they will not follow you. It is all the same for you whether you invite them or you are silent.”

    Please provide the reference of the verse

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  9. paarsurrey says:

    “So when the Qurโ€™an is recited, then listen to it and pay attention that you may receive mercy.”

    Please provide the reference.
    Thanks

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    • makagutu says:

      Just so we are clear, it’s not my work to search Quranic verses for you. You can always any passage which you think is not from the quran and do a google search. But here we go

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      • paarsurrey says:

        Don’t be angry please. It is a normal practice to give a reference when one quotes from a book. I did not ask anything unusual. If you would have quoted from the original Arabic;then there would have been no problem.
        One should not get offended so easily and one should be courteous with those who make comments, I think.

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        • makagutu says:

          Paarsurrey, I think I have been very patient with your nonsense for too long. If you had searched that verse first, you’d not have asked me those silly questions you ask. Don’t tell me to not take offense, that is beyond you! So, as I have said elsewhere, if you want a rational debate, am open to that anytime, but if your fancy is to ask me silly questions, then I don’t have the patience. I am very courteous with you, there is no question you have asked that I haven’t responded to, what else do you want from me, to tell you that Mo lived and that he is right? You are in for a long wait for that.

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          • paarsurrey says:

            If you are relaxed; and I think you should be; then put the reference of the verses at the end of each in you post.
            That will make it convenient for the viewers to verify the things.

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            • makagutu says:

              You asked me to provide a reference, did I or did I not provide as you requested? What is all this nonsense you are telling me?

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              • paarsurrey says:

                I have checked the main post and also the comments; I don’t know where you have put the reference. Please provide it.

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                • makagutu says:

                  Did you click on the link in the response that starts Just so we are clear, itโ€™s not my work to search which was a response to you?

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                  • paarsurrey says:

                    I don’t know much of the computer. Earlier I did not get it; now I clicked the words “here we go” and get it.
                    Sorry.
                    Thanks

                    Now I will give each verse with the context verses and then we will discuss.

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                    • makagutu says:

                      While you are at it, read the post again, you may discover there maybe no need for debate.

                      Apology accepted.

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                    • paarsurrey says:

                      I never wanted a contentious debate; I wanted a friendly discussion; and I am comfortable with you.

                      English is not my first language.

                      I think we can discuss one another’s view point friendly with patience. Other viewers of your blog also could join, if they so like.

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                    • makagutu says:

                      I am ok with have a discussion and I have been very patient with you.

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                    • paarsurrey says:

                      Thanks

                      Synonyms have not provided you with the relevant verses you might be looking in Quran; as you would have observed the verses quoted by you have altogether different context; there is nothing in them conducing to silence others with force or silence them unreasonably.

                      We can discuss other verses also.

                      I get following other synonyms of the word “silence”:

                      Verb
                      Cause to become silent; prohibit or prevent from speaking.
                      Synonyms
                      noun. hush – quiet – still – quietness – calm – stillness
                      verb. hush – shush – shut up

                      Now nothing in the verses quoted by you is related to these synonyms, you will agree, I think.

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  10. […] July 28, 2013 at 14:04 โ€œAnd [mention, O Muhammad], when We directed to you a few of the jinn, listening to the Qurโ€™an. […]

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  11. paarsurrey says:

    I take the first verse quoted by you and give it here with the verses in the context:

    [46:30] And remember when We turned towards thee a party of the Jinn who wished to hear the Qurโ€™an and, when they were present at its recitation, they said to one another, โ€˜Be silent and listen,โ€™ and, when it was finished, they went back to their people, warning them.
    [46:31] They said, โ€˜O our people, we have heard a Book, which has been sent down after Moses, fulfilling that which is before it; it guides to the truth, and to the right path.
    [46:32] โ€˜O our people, respond to Allahโ€™s Summoner and believe in Him. He will forgive you your sins, and protect you from a painful punishment.
    [46:33] โ€˜And whoso does not respond to Allahโ€™s Summoner, he cannot escape Him in the earth, nor can he have any protector beside Him. Such are in manifest error.โ€™
    [46:34] Have they not seen that Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth and was not wearied by their creation, has the power to give life to the dead? Yea, verily, He has power over all things.
    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=46&verse=25
    It is very normal that when one speaks with a group of people others should listen to it carefully. What is your point here?
    Maybe it is the word โ€œJinnโ€ that has confused you.
    The word is is explained here:

    Click to access dictionary_quran.pdf

    I quote the relevant passage for the word Jinn (Arabic root j-n-n) from the above lexicon:
    โ€œSuch a one passed the night as a guest: that is in a desolate place where there was no one to cheer him by his society or talk- also means the main or chief part or body of men or of mankind; the flowers of plants or herbage; the prime youth.โ€

    What is your point here? Please.
    When Muhammad was addressing a group of men; shouldn’t they have not listened to him? Was it proper for them to make noise instead?

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      Is English your first language and did you read my post? Did you understand my motive? I wasn’t making any theological argument based on the verses. I wanted verses that mention silence in the Quran and I got them.
      The question I want you to answer is at the end of the post. I want to know why the Koran, the bible and the rest of the so called holy books are silent on the central characters. We are told nothing about Mo in the Koran that can be used to develop a biography, the same is true of Jesus and the bible and so on.
      And for your information, I read the verses in context, just so you know.

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      • paarsurrey says:

        Quran is for guidance of humanity.
        Why should one need the biography of Muhammad?
        Human beings needed the Word Revealed from the one true God; so the book authored by the one true God was provided by Him. It also mentioned the Sunnah of Muhammad; I mean the commandments in Quran that needed demonstration by the messenger prophet; that he demonstrated and set the people on them. I think that is sufficient.
        Jesus’ essential life account has also been provided in Quran.
        So Quran provides all the essentials about the central characters.

        For other details one could read a good history book; for “Life of Muhammad” I provide a link:

        Life of Muhammads. http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Life-of-Muhammad.pdf

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        • makagutu says:

          Paarsurrey, by now, I think you must have realised by reading this blog that whatever you are calling revealed word appears to be so only for you and other believers and not the author of this blog. In a sense, it is just a play for me, I don’t buy it and I can’t for it is all work of men, borne of ignorance and fear with an aim to control.

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          • paarsurrey says:

            I don’t sell anything and I don’t buy anything from you or other atheists; I mention my beliefs as I have it and we discuss things for reconciliation if there is a possibility.
            I don’t have any intention to disturb you. I think public blogs are for promotion of peace and reconciliation among the humans of different opinions.

            Like

  12. paarsurrey says:

    Now we take other verse quoted by you with the verses in the context:

    [7:204] And when thou bringest not to them a Sign, they say, โ€˜Wherefore dost thou not forge it?โ€™ Say, โ€˜I follow only that which is revealed to me from my Lord. These are evidences from your Lord, and guidance and mercy for a people that believe.โ€™
    [7:205] And when the Qurโ€™an is recited, give ear to it and keep silence, that you may be shown mercy.
    [7:206] And remember thy Lord in thy mind with humility and fear, and without loudness of speech, in the mornings and evenings; and be not of the neglectful.
    [7:207] Truly, those who are near to thy Lord, turn not away with pride from His worship, but they glorify Him and prostrate themselves before Him.

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=7&verse=200

    It is very reasonable to listen when the revelation was being received by Muhammad from the one true God; one could ask question from Muhammad later when it was finished that was not prohibited and people used to ask questions from Muhammad and he used to reply them with patience.

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