Fellow sufferers, a few days ago we looked at Arthur Schopenhauer’s views of the fair sex and most if not all of those who read the post found them to be wanting. Whether it was the dominant view then or are his personal views, it appears the general agreement is that he was wrong.
In a chit-chat with one of my friends, I was told, in majority of women’s opinion, men behave like 5 year olds or rather it appears to them that we reach maturity at age 5 and don’t get any better.
On the other hand, while having a similar discussion with the menfolk, some of them think women are mad or mature babies and should be handled with care.
Lastly, there is that group of men and women who hold the view that we are all equal.
Given the above, I have a few questions
- What is the extent of equality being sought or advocated?
- Are the sexes really equal in any sense?
- At what point does an observation or opinion made regarding the sexes become misogyny or sexist?
Random thoughts 
1. Unsure, and I don’t really bother with it, because of number 2.
2. Much more equal than the majority thinks, I believe. I see more differences based on personality than based on gender. Based on the conclusions you’ve witnessed (and I’ve heard), I find even less difference between genders. What’s the difference between an immature five-year-old and an overly emotional adult? And…
3. Sexist- when you start discriminating- like with jobs and such. Misogyny or misandry is when you allocate sweeping generalizations to a gender like in two and dislike them for it. When people do that,I’m just thinking- “You know you’re talking about at least 3 billion people, right?” and other various questions pop up in my head.
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Well said.
So the differences are based on personality but really not across gender just as two males are different from each other in personality and abilities.
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I have argued this til the cows come home…and I gave up. Good post.
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Thanks, why did you give up?
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Sometimes it is not worth the fight…and with someone like Violet things just get really daft.
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Haha, I thought the two of you got a long very well 😀
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I am scared to even look at a woman now…an image of an irate Scotswoman pops in my head with a caption bubble screaming “Stop objectifying that woman ARK!”
Nightmare stuff….
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I think the level of equality being sought and the way that it should be are the same: total equality as human beings. That is the only fair way for society to function. Unfortunately, cultural mores and religious traditions work against this becoming a reality. As intelligent human beings, it is incumbent upon us to work, to lead, to fight against this inequality status of women.
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I can agree to this, we seek equality as human beings. No sex should be treated as subordinate to the other and we must champion this.
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I concur. There is no “half-way” in this matter.
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Yesterday the History channel ran a documentary on the the early days of the Feminist movement. My dad (87) in a rare moment of clarity said to me: “You know, ever since I was a little, little kid, I understood that I was lucky not to be a woman .” I think that speaks volumes, don’t you?
1. I think that when women finally have basic equal human rights (which includes equal pay for equal work), everything else will fall into place. They will no longer be other, less valuable, less worthy, less anything.
2. I agree with Shinashi. I am emotional dreamer; not all women are. Does that make me a mature baby? I don’t think so. Difficult and dangerous? Only if emotions scare you. But not all emotions are scary, right?
3. When the opinion based on a few women’s behavior, temperament, personality or tendency becomes the justification for sweeping generalities labeling them “as less than” or “impossible to understand” or -my personal favorite- hysterical and illogical.
It seems to me that a lot of our so-called differences is really learned behavior, on both sides. So let’s unlearn them.
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In 1 you are arguing for equal pay for equal work but this happens only in public service where people are paid according to a set scale. In private service, at least in places that I know, people[esp. professionals] negotiate for their salaries so that no two people are paid the same. Does this affect this right?
Do you think physiological differences between the sexes should matter? For example, men are in many cases bigger than women, physically stronger[though this is questionable, I don’t know how many men would not ask the burden of pregnancy and childbirth be taken away.]
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Negotiated salaries- The pay range for women in any given job ought to be the same as men. I dont care what job it is. Physiological differences should not matter. Either she can do the job or not. If she can’t don’t hire her.
I agree with aguywithoutboxers; basically, total equality as human beings.
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I also agree with awb, we should be champions of equality as human beings, with that the rest will eventually fit into place.
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2. Are the sexes really equal in any sense?
Hard to pick who’s the better sandwich maker. Oh, and thinking…. both sexes seems perfectly equal at that.
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In this sense, are arguing about skill? Do the sexes have the same skills or better still is a particular skill spread across the board?
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In matters physical, of course. Artistic, scientific and philosophical i’d say its exactly the same. The better question would be are the sexes interested in the same things…. there you’d get some major divergences.
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For the question you ask, the list would be endless in the true sense of the word!
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The gender spectrum is an interesting thing . If we take into consideration all the variables….masculine male, feminine male, feminine female , masculine female….and those that fall in between…we can truly realize and even appreciate that we are not all equal (and certainly not the same) …our physical , emotional, mental, and creative strengths and weaknesses will all be different. However, we strive for equal opportunity for all regardless of where we fall on the gender spectrum.
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I agree with equal opportunity for all and I agree with the rest of the comment.
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“3.At what point does an observation or opinion made regarding the sexes become misogyny or sexist?”
this is of course…a personal opinion… 😀
but for instance when someone says…”of course she’s confused…because she’s a woman!”
or any generalization of gender…instead of seeing the individual…
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Oh yes, to make a general statement concerning a group based on an individual is wrong.
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I agree with a lot of what’s been said. but I guess a couple of things are confusing me.
1. What is the extent of equality being sought or advocated?
Don’t really get this. Equality of treatment and opportunity is being sought – I can’t measure degrees of equality.
2. Are the sexes really equal in any sense?
This is such a weird question. Are any two people equal in any sense? People vary so much.
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my friend you say it is a weird question but you have an answer to it? Don’t you then think by providing an answer, I can infer it is a legitimate question.
In many instances when this question is addressed, most people are clueless about what they mean when they talk about equality. Not so many people can articulate it like agwb, when he says we want equality as human beings.
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I guess when you ask ‘are the sexes equal in any sense?’, for me it’s like saying are Chinese people and Canadian people equal in any sense, or are rich and poor people, or tall and small, or gay and straight. All different, but due equal treatment is all I can think. And the extent of this equality is equal treatment.
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Thanks for pointing that out. I will try to formulate the questions in a more precise way in future.
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Hi there, Makagutu! I really like you asking these questions and taking care when reading the answers! I have looked at some of them, too, and will probably post the result tomorrow. It’s fascinating. 🙂
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Hello mate, hope you are doing great. I am looking forward to your post.
Well I think we have to ask these questions, we may not get answers but at least we get to think about them.
And the responses, most times help us reflect on our assumptions, clarify our opinions and educate us. Fascinating indeed.
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[…] blogger Makagutu asked a few questions on equality. It’s interesting to see the answers, ranging from […]
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