Hitler: an atheist or not?


A good friend of mine shared with me  a brilliant post on Hitler, the Catholic church and its rich history as the gentleman wanted us to believe about his [sic]holy mother church. Many of you are aware of the accusation that Hitler was an atheist and the Nazi manifesto in part to exterminate the Jews was driven by atheistic attitudes. Some of you by now know that this is false.

If the Roman Catholic Church is rich in anything, then it must be its rich history of blood-letting either directly or by delegation and in many cases by turning a blind eye to it. In our most recent history, you are aware some members of the clergy were culpable in the Rwandan genocide that left several thousand people dead, maimed and displaced.

And for those of you not in the know, here is a piece of history will surely like.

CATHOLICISM & FASCISM: A BRIEF RETROSPECTIVE

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

42 thoughts on “Hitler: an atheist or not?

  1. melouisef says:

    Hitler was first and foremost very superstitious and had at least 3 fortunetellers, now that should tell you something.

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  2. Mordanicus says:

    Christians always complain about them being prosecuted, however it’s historical that christianity is the most violent and bloody religion of all time.

    Nazi anti-Semitism is the natural consequence of christian prosecution of Jews. Actually Marten Luther wrote the blueprints of the Endlösing.

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    • melouisef says:

      Humans are incredibly cruel, irrespective of their religion (which they use as justification). Humans are a mistake (of creation if you want) , pity about the asteroid that exterminated the dinosaurs
      😦

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      • Mordanicus says:

        I totally agree with you that humans are using religion as an excuse to commit all kind of violence. That has been my conviction since I was 15.

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      • makagutu says:

        I agree with you, that of all the animals, man is the most cruel of them all. And the earth would be better without them.

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        • Mordanicus says:

          I hope you are not so extreme as Pentti Linkola.

          See: http://www.penttilinkola.com/ and http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pentti_Linkola

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        • tildeb says:

          Cruel? What a strange framework to adjudicate man as a part of nature. I think that maybe you’ve bought into the religious notion that man is somehow separate and special from nature when we are very much a successful species in it. And that makes us as much victims of our success as perpetrators of our own demise because we have the wherewithal to adapt behaviors to sustainability.

          I also think too many people fall into the religious trap of damnation as if this were any kind of meaningful contribution to facing reality rather than support and undergo necessary adaptive behavior. Yes, we have significant problems to face and significant changes to undergo but sentencing humanity to death for our crimes against nature is not a helpful way to frame the creation of meaningful solutions. It’s a cop out. And another problem to have to face and overcome. The belief that nature would be ‘better off’ without humanity is just that: a misguided narcissistic belief that has no place at the grown-up’s table where reality must be accorded its rightful place at its head.

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          • makagutu says:

            I don’t see man as apart from nature and am not in that religious trap.
            Maybe you consider it a success how can making weapons whose sole end is to kill members of your own race success forget the thousands of animals man kills for sport. Maybe I have flawed view of success but this is not close!
            Man is being taught to take care of his environment, check on deforestation, pollution of the environment, protect delicate ecosystems. Am aware of what can be done. How much of it is being done is up to debate.
            I don’t think a solution that has man out of the picture is a cop out. In fact your idea that man has to be there gives man prominence similar to the religious mindset!

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            • tildeb says:

              Well, I’m looking at the spread of the species around the globe in ever increasing numbers as a ‘success’ compared to many other critters in ‘decline’. From nature’s P.O.V. and using this as a comparative measurement, we are a successful species for this growth in spite of so much of nature able to kill us.

              But to continue to be a successful species in terms of longevity and sustainability rather than growth alone (which is clearly unsustainable), we’re going to have make global changes. Pretending that humanity is simply deserving of being eliminated because we’ve been so successful to date (including surviving wars and pestilence and famine and drought) isn’t much of a solution… from a human P.O.V.. And it is this P.O.V. that matters more in effect than what squirrels and cabbages and krill and moss might think. Advocating for the mass killing people of people (or imagining a world without any at all) is not a very good practical solution to working towards establishing and maintaining a sustainable biosphere.

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  3. Martyn says:

    Was the young Adolf Hitler ordained as a vicar or something? I read something in Mein Kampf about Hitler reinforcing his belief in the Biblical Jesus, but I am aware of the theory that Mein Kampf was written not by Hitler but by a Jesuit named Staempfle. Another thing is that the Nazi regalia reminds me of Pagan Rome.

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    • makagutu says:

      What I know is that throughout his entire career, he thought he was doing the work of god and that the Catholic church, that it, it’s hierarchy, did not find it worthwhile to speak out against him.

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  4. john zande says:

    “I believe today I am acting in the same way as the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lords work!”
    -Adolf Hitler, speech delivered in 1936.

    “Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith…. We need believing people.”
    -Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933

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  5. tildeb says:

    Hitler is used as an example of atheism in action not because Hitler was an atheist (he was admittedly a catholic) but because he acted like people believe an atheist – someone without any ethical and moral boundaries – would act like! That makes him an exemplary atheist by definition, you see.

    This meme has gained much traction in the world of believers. In particular, the institution we call the catholic church worked hand in hand with the nazis throughout much of Hitler’s time in power. To counter this legitimate charge of collaboration, catholics like to introduce individual catholics who didn’t… as if only these examples – rather than the powerful effect from the institution – shows catholic morality at work. It’s rationalization at work… with the vilified ones being atheists, of course. Otherwise, the moral high ground assumed by the religious disintegrates in the face of reality, and we can’t have that, now can we?

    Stalin is another common example of what is simply believed to be atheism in action – and the dangers of removing any ethical and moral boundary which as we must presume comes only from religious belief. What few believers care to know is that Stalin was trained to be a priest. My take on this is that he used those lessons in tyranny for great personal gain and at great cost to others.

    In neither case did these tyrants exemplify atheism – non belief in gods or a god; they exemplified the same brutal principles used to support authority in theology to support a change in the subject of that theology. Rather than use ‘god’ they substituted ‘the state’ to justify whatever actions they deemed to be in support of it no matter how bloody, unethical, and immoral. That’s why Goebel’s speech to the SS in Poland about the high cost to the soldiers who had to carry out mass killings is identical to William Lane Craig’s justification for us to feel sorry for the ‘Israeli’ soldiers ordered by god to slaughter Canaanite innocents. It’s the same principle at work: submission to authority held in greater respect and esteem than the rights and freedoms and dignity of other human beings. The tyranny of religious belief that awards to any god greater rights than those held by real people in the real world is the rot at the heart of religious belief that makes it so very dangerous to all of us – believers and non believers alike. And this is exactly what we see when religious authority gains temporal power: horrors that are latter believed to be ‘atheism’ in action!

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    • Mordanicus says:

      We can as easily use dozens of christians as an example of violent and immoral criminals.

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    • makagutu says:

      There is nothing to add, except to say you have gotten to the crux of the matter so eloquently!

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      • tildeb says:

        Oh, and unlike some girls, nurses, and doctors who have been part of a therapeutic abortion, not a single nazi – including Hitler – has earned enough sanction in the church’s eyes to be worthy of excommunication.

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        • Mordanicus says:

          The vatican is only interested in power. It would be a good idea if they would be exterminated.

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          • makagutu says:

            Power and control, that’s all! no wonder the pope has ambassadors in all countries the Catholic Church is recognized.

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          • tildeb says:

            I disagree. The vatican should be treated by all governments as the multinational criminal organization it is and its leaders – local, regional, national, and international – held accountable for its criminal practices wherever they occur.

            Eventually, even the good catholics will leave it. There is no justifiable cause to call for violence and its adherents ‘exterminated’ other than grossly misguided and unacceptable extremism.

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        • makagutu says:

          the church has other interests and Nazis and Hitler have been buried! The pope I hear has named 800 saints, he wants to outdo pope Paul in one go it seems!

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  6. aguywithoutboxers says:

    There is a proverb, “Power corrupts.” This is applicable not only to the roman catholic belief system, but to most christian sects as well. Once they attain the seat of authority, they’ll do any and everything to keep the status quo. As to Hitler, he made some very strange alliances in order to gain control of the German government. It wasn’t possible without the cooperation of German churches. Despite their claims of ignorance, they knew exactly what was happening to the gays, the Gypsies (Romany), the Jews and others.

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    • makagutu says:

      Any leader who sees himself/ herself to be standing in the place of god, seeing that he is responsible to no one except the god they have created, will for all intents and purposes do anything to stay in power.

      Hitler couldn’t have managed to do all this without support of the German churches. The Catholic Church owes all humanity apologies and the best they could do is to disband and call it quits!

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  7. Ishaiya says:

    I have a photocopy of the original seminal work by Guido von List written in the late 1800’s in old high german, in which he propounds the expulsion and elimination of all non-Aryans in the face of the one true Pagan religion. Claiming to have been given divine instruction from Odin himself no less after suffering blindness from a life-long illness I believe. Guido von List was an occultist who ran an occult school. His disciples were none other than the stars of the SS themselves, versed in the Aryan-Pagan doctrine and employing the Scandinavian runes as their weapons of war against the scourge of the earth. Hitler was merely the monkey, a puppet in a grand plan that had its roots already well established in the upper echelons of scholarly ‘german’ society. So Catholicism isn’t the only religion or belief system to have become caught up in the barbed-wire of Nazi control and insanity. So whether Hitler was an atheist or not is a bit of a moot point I think in view of who and what was really in control.

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    • makagutu says:

      Wow, that is quite an interesting point. Is that work available, it would make for good read especially to help understand the motives behind the idea of Aryan purity

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      • Ishaiya says:

        The only copy of that book that I am aware of is the one that exists in the Berlin Staatsbibliothek. I remember it was the only copy on their catalogue and I had to make an appointment to have a look at it because it was such a rare copy. I’m sure there are others in private collections. It reads like the ramblings of a mad-man from what I remember, but the Aryan ideal was very heavily emphasised throughout.

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    • Mordanicus says:

      It’s generally known that most of Nazi ideology has been developed throughout the 19th century. Many christians blame the Enlightenment for Nazism, however the real father of Nazism is the Romanticism, the anti-Enlightenment movement and mainly popular in Germany.

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      • Ishaiya says:

        You are correct in saying that the real father of Nazism or German Nationalism was “Romanticism, the anti-Enlightenment movement”, but the father of the SS and what we now know as the Nazism was Guido von List without a shadow of a doubt. He in fact wrote two books:
        ‘Die Bilderschrift der Ario-Germanen’ in which he puts forth the grand plan for world domination, and, ‘Das Geheimnis der Runen’ (the copy that I have) where he outlines how this is to be done with the power and lore of the Runes. The runes as I’m sure you are aware were used heavily within Nazi symbolism and insignias.

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  8. tildeb says:

    I think we miss a valuable historical lesson when we conveniently forget that Hitler (and other totalitarian leaders) used social justice as a means to taking more and more political power. Far too many of us liberals fail to appreciate this important aspect to the rise of tyranny. Far too few of us know, for example, that Hitler’s Germany was one of the first countries to implement ‘hate speech’ laws. The slide into tyranny – in the name of social justice and security and environment and fairness and equity that nibbles away at individual autonomy is the key ingredient we must always be on guard to confront. And it’s a danger that never goes away. That’s why constitutional guarantees for individual autonomy, equality laws, and dignity of personhood must always take precedence in our allegiance over their erosion in some other name.

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