Friends, if, the resident muslim apologist on my blog, Paarsurrey is to be believed, then it is inhuman to ridicule ideas people believe in and you are not a true humanist. These beliefs are, but not limited to, believing that there is a god, and that this god chose one dumb fellow to reveal to his word, in Arabic, the dumb fellow then got some idle typist to listen to his rambling and together they compiled a holy[sic] book.
He wants, you and me, to believe, as his responses to this post, suggest, that Islam is submission to god with reason. Yes, you read that clearly. What reason, apart from being born in a certain geographical area, to believing parents and being too lazy to inquire or not being exposed to contrary ideas would one have for submitting to god?
Our apologist is a kindly gentleman who also wants us to believe there is nowhere in the koran where ghosts, phantoms etc are mentioned. First as a matter of clarification, gods, ghosts, angels, genii, satan and whatever other spiritual being you can think are phantoms, creations of the mind and are words without meaning to say the least and as such I can use them interchangeably. So paarsurrey, saying one true god, several times in response to me doesn’t promote your phantom to reality, it remains in the same close of beings that are products of ignorance and fear.
He also want us to believe that there is nothing in the Koran that warrants enslavement of another. A look at Surat 8 will dissuade anyone of such a notion for in every few verses, all we get is admonitions on how to subdue the unbelievers and this is with the support of Allah. Unless, therefore this gentleman has a different version of the Koran and lives in a cave, alone, with internet access, he is guilty of lying with a straight face!
In verse 8: 52, we are told
[Theirs is] like the custom of the people of Pharaoh and of those before them. They disbelieved in the signs of Allah , so Allah seized them for their sins. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and severe in penalty.
which apart from being a reference to the pharaoh story of the OT, shows not a loving god but a vindictive. Our apologist can tell himself several times over that his, is a religion of peace, if that makes him happy, but the truth is far from that. He has also informed us that he believes wholly and religiously in the Koran making him a fundamentalist to the core, albeit one who appears is not ready to go on the rampage because a cartoon of the prophet[piss be on him] has been printed somewhere on the globe.
In order not to make this post longer than it is already is, I ask you friends to weigh in and help the brother, for I truly think, he needs our help. I also urge you not to call him names, he says, it is lack of reason to use ridicule and inhuman to insult people 😛
Random thoughts 
Nice post my friend. I am also preparing something that I’d link (pingback) to this post. But I do not agree with you 100% on ridiculing ideas (ideas not humans).
Absurd ideas are ridiculous unless proven otherwise. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you claim some supernatural ideas, you better have a damn good explanation, otherwise keep your mouth shut otherwise your idea will definitely face ridicule!
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I ridicule my friends sometimes, for the fun of it, but I have no reservation when it comes to ideas. Any idea, even those that I hold, if they are worthy of ridicule, I will not lose a tear if they are ridiculed. It actually may help one rethink what idea they hold.
And I agree with you on the evidentiary claim, extra-ordinary ideas need to supported by extra-ordinary evidence and there, really, is no two ways about it.
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He’s a gem.
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He truly is.
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He is a dickhead. He deserves no respect.
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lol
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I disagree with you my friend in using these words. Just because this man has the opposite point of yours and is trying to defend it, doesn’t qualify him with for such disrespect.
Paarsurrey might be completely wrong, but still that doesn’t qualify him with this description. He never used such language against any of us.
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He adheres to a religion that has a pedophile as its spiritual leader, that keeps many women in virtual slavery is blatantly misogynist, has barbaric tribal laws sanctioned by many within Islam and belongs to a religion that, in some quarters, encourages children to kill themselves with explosives because it will please Allah.
He may not personally uphold with all these attitudes, but he, as an adult, belongs to this barbaric sect.
He should know better.
Sorry, Mike,That he continually preaches how wonderful Islam is evidence enough that he is a dickhead.
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He can be annoying but I think he is one fellow who is interesting to listen to.
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Who, Paarsuurey?
I’d rather listen to Justin Bieber, for his god’s sake.
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Hahaha! I would rather not listen to anything if I have to go through a minute of Bieber, by the way, what does he sing? I don’t think I have listened to any of his songs!
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Me neither. Never heard a single song.But he has millions who follow him on Twitter so that’s enough for me to know one has to be nuts to follow him. Hey, just like Christians in fact!
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On that we are in agreement, that is, like christians
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I love this Club..you guys should go on tour: The Butcher(The Ark), The Baker(John Zande), the Candlestick Maker(Massai Boy).
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:-P, and you should join us, the nerd!
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A sense of humor is the ability to laugh about yourself and to have no problem with being ridiculed. An omnipotent god should be able to do that, or else he/she/it would not be omnipotent. So thinking that such a god has a problem with that is blasphemy, isn’t it? The way to recognize the true religion is to make fun of it. If its adherents like that and join in, that would be a point in favor of it (unfortunately, I have not found any theist religion so far that has a god with a sense of humor like that :-(. If they become angry, just go away. 🙂
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If there is any truth in the bible, one is that this god has quite a dry sense of humor, he creates minions with frailties then drowns almost everyone save a single family. Why, anyone, would think that their god is quite the omni type and has the markings of a tyrant is beyond my comprehension.
Thanks for your comment mate.
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This religion emerge in a time with tyrannic power systems. Many deities from this period of history are constructed according to the pattern of power, as the lord of the world. This is another form of anthropomorphism, where something from the human world, in this case power, is projected into what people thought their gods to be. It is funny because power is an evil phenomenon. So the gods will normally fit the political system in society. In societies without power, like the San, you don’t have this type of religion. The bad thing is that while our societies develop into the direction of democracy, the religions stay behind, still conserving that outdated model of the lord of the world, with all kinds of troublesome consequences.
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http://asifoscope.org/2012/12/01/about-antropomorphism/
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Interesting post Nannus, I enjoyed it!
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I don’t think any religious person, especially those of the Abrahamic religions, can describe their god without recourse to anthropomorphism.
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Unfortunately, nothing that I can add here will ever change your friend nor his belief system. However, I thought angels visited Mohammed and aren’t angels the same as phantoms, since not all of us are graced by their presence? I do, however, have a question. Did the same angel visit Abraham, Mohammed and Jesus? If so, to which one did he give the truth? Why did he lie to the others? Much love and naked hugs! 🙂 As always, excellent post!
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There are still many questions on that same line of thought, if it is the same angel that appeared to Joseph, why didn’t they see fit to appear everywhere or at least to each person in every hamlet or household then they could compare notes. As it is, if the religious are to be believed, they want us to accept the words of men so long dead to be truth, when this god could just cut the chase and do his magic especially now that we have internet and reality TV, maybe he could use Fox news and Aljazeera :-D.
Hugs my friend and thanks for the kind words
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“Did the same angel visit Abraham, Mohammed and Jesus?”
The angels never lie; they gave the same teachings to all the messenger prophets.
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I assume that by “angles” you mean “angels.” If this is true, then which belief system is the one, true belief system? They all three claim that superiority.
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In the origin every revealed religion was truthful; and had the same message from the one true God; later the message was tampered with or misunderstood; then the message was refreshed by a new messenger prophet of the one true god.
Thanks f
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Paarsurrey, either you are trying my patience or acting like a complete idiot and don’t tell me I can’t speak in this manner. I have written all religion is founded on ignorance and fear. You are free to believe that a god has revealed himself to a few idiots over time and that his revelation to Mo was to correct the other revelations, if that will make you happy. To continue to reason in this manner makes you a really stupid person, for the revelation you keep talking about refers only to the Judeo-Christian- Islamic cults, which implies that this stupid god of yours didn’t consider the Chinese, the Indians, the Egyptians and even my forefathers worthy of revelation.
If you are going to keep writing this nonsense, then you have been visiting the wrong blog. Till now, you haven’t told me what you mean by the word god and whether such a thing exists and for what reason does it exist. To keep repeating one true god without showing why you should be taken seriously is wrong and will always be a disservice to humanity!
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Paarsurrey comments on my stuff too. So awesome.
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I feel sorry for Muslims, or people involved in any religion where a core part of the belief is that the deity will be furious if you question its existence, and gives license to other believers to kill you. It’s enough to keep adherent numbers high.
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And to keep the offertories flowing with donations, heaven is calling!
How have you been mate?
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Alright thanks. Too busy to blog much. You?
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Am well, can’t complain. A little busy to write sometimes but I get time to read a few posts each day.
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Questions could be asked; not prohibited.
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Ask not about things which, if made clear to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Quran is being revealed, they will be made clear to you. … Before you, a community asked such questions, then on that account they became disbelievers. Quran 5:101-102
So, what does it mean that you can only ask questions ‘while the Quran is being revealed’? Only at the mosque to a religious leader? Sounds rather intimidating and not the best place to find answers.
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@ violetwisp
I first give the verse with some verses in the context:
[5:100] On the Messenger lies only the conveying of the Message. And Allah knows what you reveal and what you hide.
[5:101] Say, ‘The bad and the good are not alike,’ even though the abundance of the bad may cause thee to wonder. So fear Allah, O men of understanding, that you may prosper.
[5:102] O ye who believe! ask not about things which, if revealed to you, would cause you trouble; though if you ask about them while the Qur’an is being sent down, they will be revealed to you. Allah has left them out. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Forbearing.
[5:103] A people before you asked about such things, but then they became disbelievers therein.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=5&verse=98
Question were used to be asked from Muhammad and he always answered.
The address is to the believers not to non-believers.If you ponder over the verses you may realize that in fact questions were not prohibited but guidance has been provided as to at what time and when the question are to be asked.
Quran was not authored by Muhammad; the one true God authored it.
There were times when the Revelation was made to Muhammad; and there were times when it was not being made.
Quran is a compact book, not of a big volume; if question were asked and the answers given when the revelation was being made, the book will become voluminous and commandments would extend to a great numbers and hence difficult to act upon; hence, the prohibition.
Questions could be deferred to another time when revelation was not being made to Muhammad; and Muhammad would answer them himself; that won’t make a part of the Quran.
Question were not prohibited; only time and system was explained.
This is what I understand. Does that help?
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So you mean it’s a historical reference, relevant only at the time Muhammad was alive? Do you think many Muslims today interpret it like this, or do you think questioning is discouraged in a lot of Islamic areas of the world, based on this and other quotes from the Quran?
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Not every Muslim acts according to the teachings of Quran; for that Quran/Islam/Muhammad are not responsible.
If questions had been prohibited; I won’t have answered you.
In fact Quran answers all questions on a verse in the context verses; if one ponders intently.
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“that there is a god, and that this god chose one dumb fellow to reveal to his word, in Arabic, the dumb fellow then got some idle typist to listen to his rambling and together they compiled a holy[sic] book.”
It is wrong; Quran was not collected this way. I think you people should know as to how Quran was collected. I give a link, try reading it, just for information:
Pages 354-368
Click to access Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf
At least one should have correct information; only then one could discuss meaningfully.
Thanks
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Are you suggesting that Mo, if he lived, wasn’t dumb, that he wrote down whatever he was told by himself and gave out a bound copy of the Koran? Which part of my statement do you disagree with?
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Nothing you wrote in the comments is true. Please read as to how Quran was revealed and compiled from the link I provided. I don’t want to convert you; so please use soft words and just have good information. You can always differ with me as I do differ with you.
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Again for the last time, tell me, if this is not the case
1. that the Koran was revealed to Mo alone in different locales over a period of time
2. that Mo didn’t write down the Koran himself
3. that the Koran was written by others who were narrated to by the prophet
4. that the Koran was compiled as it is in the 2nd caliphate
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“there is nothing in the Koran that warrants enslavement of another. A look at Surat 8 will dissuade anyone of such a notion ”
You mention chapter 8; don’t give the verse number; please provide it for good discussion.
Thanks
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I have once asked you if English is your first language? I have given a link to the whole chapter for you to read, once you have come back to me
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English is not my first language.
Thanks
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“In verse 8: 52”
I give the verse with the verses in the context:
[8:51] And if thou couldst see, when the angels take away the souls of those who disbelieve, smiting their faces and their backs, saying: ‘Taste ye the punishment of burning!
[8:52] ‘That is because of that which your hands have sent on before yourselves, and knowthat Allah is not at all unjust to His servants.’
[8:53] Their case is like the case of the people of Pharaoh and those before them: they disbelieved in the Signs of Allah; so Allah punished them for their sins. Surely, Allah is Powerful and severe in punishing.
[8:54] This is because Allah would never change a favour that He has conferred upon a people until they change their own condition, and know that Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
[8:55] Their case is like the case of the people of Pharaoh and those before them: they rejected the Signs of their Lord, so We destroyed them for their sins. And We drowned the people of Pharaoh, for they were all wrongdoers.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=8&verse=46
There is no mention of slavery in them. I don’t find it in these verses. Please mention where do you see it.
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First, if it is not clear to you by now, that I have read the whole chapter in context, then am wasting my time with you. In V52, which I reference I say very clearly that Allah is vindictive, it talks not of forgiveness or mercy but severe punishment. So you first must read what I have written before you ask me silly questions.
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I think your question was for slavery for which you mentioned chapter 8; next the verse 52 was mentioned that did not mention of slavery.
I think that is settled now.
As far as the word vindictive is concerned; those who don’t believe in the one true God; they don’t have to worry about it as they don’t believe in.
Only if they have some doubt about their belief then of course it would be relevant. Are you in doubt about the non-existence of the one true God?
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Are you now responding to what you think I wrote or to what I wrote?
And no, I have no doubt about the non-existence of your god or any other gods for that matter.
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Reblogged this on paarsurrey and commented:
Paarsurrey says:
I never called you or anyone else as “heathens”. Did I?
I don’t want to convert you to Islam unless you are convinced heart and soul.
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You are in for a long wait.
And when I said heathens, why do you think am making a reference to you. I have told you this is my blog, my way of writing. How long before you get that into your skull?
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I did not say that you have addressed me as heathen. I know you said that about the Atheists.
Thanks
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[…] August 4, 2013 at 23:13 “In verse 8: 52″ I give the verse with the verses in the context: [8:51] And if thou couldst […]
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