The author of this post, Cornell, is my friend whom we have met before on this blog.

My friend believes the bible is true, so he starts his post thus

I can’t help but think that the people in the Old Testament had it easy when it came to hearing from God. At least then, God would speak directly and audibly through the prophets.

and he says the bible confirms it! How sweet.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways[ Hebrew 1:1]

I think it is not that a god, whatever you designate god to be, spoke to this people but that they thought a god spoke to them. He says,

But today, at least for me, it seems not so easy to know God’s will on the non-moral choices in life.

and we are left wondering on which choices does he hear the will of god? We could end this post here, by saying, as was said centuries ago, that in worshiping god, man adores himself so that whatever he calls god’s will is really his will sugar coated to give it credence and maybe make god responsible for seeing it through.

Please tell me, if this isn’t what happened even to the bible authors

When [most]Christians today speak about hearing from God, apart from the Bible, they are mainly referring to “impressions” on their hearts and minds, “thoughts and ideas”, hindsight and maybe the words of another human being.

Is there a time in history when this hasn’t been the case. Whenever a person says god spoke to me, they have always meant to say what they think their god would want them to say and this is always in line with what they want.

I wish, instead of stopping at

The next time someone tells you “God told me…” or “God led me to…”, do not always assume God spoke to them audibly as He did to Elijah. Prod that statement

he would extend the demand to anyone who mentioned a god. That this statement be prodded. Maybe he would just help his fellow men.

As many people have said elsewhere, there seem to be a disconnect between what believers think of what their god does and what the rest of us think would be the priorities of a god the believer describes. We are told

At least Benjamin Wambugu does. He recalls how he thought God was leading Him into pastoral ministry by providing for Him through His undergraduate theological education. Everyone thought he was going to be a pastor.  ”Through His servants, [God] spoke to me clearly, that He needed me to go to Bible school,” says Benjamin.

And one is left to wonder what really goes in the mind of such an egotist. There are enough pastors already, why would god want more? Isn’t it time god started ensuring there were no kids dying from starvation or at least intervened in some of the wars that end in death by the thousands! Just asking.

And the things the believer prays for!

 Roseanne did not always consider, let alone plan, to be a pastor’s wife. But when she met and befriended a handsome man who had a passion for God, she had to deal with and accept the reality of being a pastor’s wife.

Maybe I should pray, but to who now? and to ask for what?

Am a bit confused at this point. What does the brother mean when he writes

We do not need extra-biblical voices to discern God’s will over right and wrong. But when it comes to choosing between right and left, God speaks to us in amazing and often unexpected ways.

and do they have such a low opinion about our ability to discern those things that are a threat to the survival of our species that only when they are told it has been said by a god they would consider it. I am truly waiting for the day the christian shall follow the over 600 rules and directives as outlined in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Maybe that way we will all agree that man doesn’t use his reason but takes all her instruction from a god.

I honestly would wish my friend applied his reason to think about what he writes and to note how ridiculous it does sound to an observer.

Where is the lord leading you

Where is the lord leading you to?

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

86 thoughts on “Where is the lord leading you to?

  1. Here’s the story of two young women who heard their god talking to them —

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  2. Does your friend know what the voice of his conscience sounds like?

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  3. john zande says:

    I think this just about says all that needs to be said on this matter:

    “Men think epilepsy divine, merely because they do not understand it. But if they called everything divine which they do not understand, why, there would be no end to divine things.” (Hippocrates)

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  4. There was a time when I was convinced that I heard the audible voice of God. Looking back, I noticed that the voice never disagreed with me and never answered questions unless I already knew the answer.

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  5. paarsurrey says:

    I think it would be of interest to the viewers of this blog to read the following passage from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad-1835-1908, the Promised Messiah of End Times :

    “But it should as well be borne in mind that the door of divine converse and revelation remains open for this Ummah. This door is an ever present and lasting testimony to the truth of the Holy Qur’an and the Holy Prophet (sa). It was to this end that God taught us this prayer in the Chapter Al-Fatihah:

    “Guide us in the right path, the path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings.
    (Quran 1:6-7)

    The prayer taught in terms of ‘those on whom Thou hast Bestowed Thy blessings’ suggests how to seek the excellences of the prophets. Of course, the excellences vouchsafed to the prophets was their true knowledge and understanding of God and this they achieved through direct communion and converse with Him.”

    Lecture Ludhiana

    Click to access LectureLudhiana.pdf

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has claimed in very unequivocal terms that the One-True-God (not Jesus of the Christians) has conversed with him.

    Sorry for the interruption

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    • No problem Paarsurrey – always happy to hear of the psychotic delusions of your religious icons, makes for some badly-needed entertainment value. Talked to him personally, huh? Poor guy must have been off his meds – hope he gets better —

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      • paarsurrey says:

        Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born in 1835 in Qadian, a place in District Gurdaspur, India. He died in 1908; about a century ago.

        But he lives with the Message he got from the One-True-God and the books he wrote.He upheld Reason and Revelation.

        You may Google for his life account; no compulsion however.

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        • “But he lives with the Message he got from the One-True-God and the books he wrote.”

          Exactly how did he receive that message? Email? Telephone? Telegraph? Walky-Talky? Short-Wave radio? The mail? Smoke signals? Or, dare I say it, magic? Can’t you possibly see how ridiculous that sounds?

          What interest could i possibly have in reading about a psychotic who hears voices? As soon as you read Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion, I will. Let me know when you’ve done that.

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        • I have a question, Paarsurrey – one of the phrases you are required to use, to further brainwash yourself, is, “There is no god but Allah” – you are required to repeat it over and over, as part of the brainwashing process – I’m not even asking you to prove that Allah exists, otherwise we’ll just go back to yet another long discussion about the reality of your parents, which as we’ve seen, proves nothing. What I’d like you to do is prove that there is no OTHER god but Allah – there could be hundreds, for all we know! Would you do that for us? We’ll be waiting. Thanks.

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          • Man, that is so CLEVER, when a religion finds a way to make their sheeple brainwash themSELVES! Takes all the work out of it!

            But the Catholics do it too: “Hail Mary, full of grace –” And the Christians: “Our Father, which art in heaven –” Talk about phoning it in!

            “Uh, you folks just sit over there and brainwash yourselves, while the priest, the pastor and the Imam step out for a beer –” And the idiots DO!

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          • paarsurrey says:

            I think you already know that; you don’t believe that “Winnie-the-Pooh” was any time a god. Do you? It is just a myth.

            In almost all regions of the world; the One-True-God (Allah Yahweh Ahura-Mazda Parameshawara Eshawara) conversed with the righteous people; the message though got dim in the debris of time due to many reasons; nevertheless the message is there.

            The name is not that important; all good names are His names; one understands Him from His attributes; this is mentioned reasonably in Quran:

            [7:181] And to Allah alone belong all perfect attributes. So call on Him by these. And leave alone those who deviate from the right way with respect to His attributes. They shall be repaid for what they do.

            http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=7&verse=180

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    • makagutu says:

      If only you read widely, you would not only be reading works of people with a similar disposition as you do, but you would read fellows such as Al Razi who had the following to say about the Koran

      You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Koran. You say: “Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one.” Indeed, we shall produce a thousand similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter. … By God what you say astonishes us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: “Produce something like it”‽

      and elsewhere he writes

      If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.

      and on prophecy and prophets

      On what ground do you deem it necessary that God should single out certain individuals [by giving them prophecy], that he should set them up above other people, that he should appoint them to be the people’s guides, and make people dependent upon them?

      [Source]

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      • I tried reasoning with Paarsurrey the last time I encountered him, but he’s a one-note samba, not worth the effort.

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      • paarsurrey says:

        I think this shows that you have not read Quran yourself; neither in the Arabic original nor in any of its translations.

        Are you afraid of reading it; lest it may change you?

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        • Ron says:

          I read it in English. It was boring and repetitive.

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        • So, why does one have to read it in the Arabic? Can’t your god make itself understood in any other language other than the one that the people who invented Allah used?

          I have also read the Quran and it’s nothing special. There are similar stories to the ones the Jews and Christians tell and they are just as ridiculous. We have claims of how special and important believers in Allah are, just like we have the same claims about Christians and Jews in their own books. We have the same claims of how the universe is evidence for your particular god, just like most, if not all, other religions claim. And of course, we have no evidence that your nonsense is any more true than any other theist’s claims. No change effected by reading and we still have the same impotent and imaginary gods.

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          • makagutu says:

            Arabic is the language of the one true god! How could you not know this my good friend?

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          • paarsurrey says:

            It is quite OK to read the translation of Quran for an understanding. It is customary to provide a translation in any language and the original in the Arabic side by side; so that it is handy to refer to the original if the translator could not convey the message of Quran correctly; this way the original text is secured as well its meaning. You know that a translation is never an alternative of the original.

            Hope you understand

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            • Hmm, if a god was involved then one would think that there should be no difference between original and translation. If these gods cared to make sure the story wasn’t changed, then it wouldn’t be changed. However, that is not the case, is it? We are left with excuses on why these gods evidently do nothing to protect a supposed “truth”.

              I’ve had more than a few Christians insist that their bible was not translated correctly and thus they come up with many different versions of it and sects of their religion, rather like Islam has.

              This tells me that there is no reason to believe that any supernatural omnipotent/omniscient forces had anything to do with religions and their claims. All theists are sure that their version of their nonsense is the only right one and none of them have any better evidence to support those claims than the next.

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              • paarsurrey says:

                The revelation was made in the language of the recipient and those living nearby him. It is reasonable to address one in the language one could understand; I think it is customary to do that.

                Do you speak with others in the language they cannot understand?

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                • I’m not a god, paarsurrey. I would indeed speak with others in a language that they understand because I would mean a message only for them.
                  But as a god I would not need to do this. Assuming your god is what is claimed about it, omniscient and omnipotent, why is it limited to language at all if its message was meant for an entire world and not just one small group of people?

                  And why would translators ever be able to translate something incorrectly in the Quran if this god cares about its correct meaning?

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                • Apparently clubschadenfreude does, considering you were spoken to in English, and you clearly did not understand. What clubschadenfreude was saying, was that if your “god” was all- powerful, why didn’t he make sure the translators translated it correctly? Or are there some things like that, that he just can’t do?

                  Still waiting for you to prove there are no other gods but Allah —

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            • “You know that a translation is never an alternative of the original.”

              And in the case of any and all “Holy” books, the Qur’an included, neither a translation nor the original, is an alternative to the truth.

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            • makagutu says:

              Unfortunately, there are no originals!

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        • “I think this shows that you have not read Quran yourself; neither in the Arabic original nor in any of its translations.”

          What do you think, Paarsurrey, do you believe Al Razi has read it, most likely in the original Arabic? I do. Yet his opinions seem to be very different from yours. How do you account for that?

          Maybe that shows that he thinks for himself, while you do as you’re told.

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          • paarsurrey says:

            Quran is a living book; if one reads it with some ulterior motive; he won’t understand it correctly and one will be exposed for one’s being biased. It is mentioned in Quran:

            [2:11] In their hearts was a disease, and Allah has increased their disease to them; and for them is a grievous punishment because they lied.

            http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=11

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            • So you’re saying your Qur’an comes with it’s own built-in excuse – if you don’t believe it, that automatically means you don’t understand it. In your philosophy, it is impossible to understand it and still not believe in it – how convenient! Your brand of religion is where Christianity was five or six hundred years ago, but in time, it, too, will fall – the age of gods is over.

              Now – when did you plan to prove that there is no other god than Allah?

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            • makagutu says:

              Don’t you find a book suspect when it comes with such a disclaimer?

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              • paarsurrey says:

                Why should I suspect when it is so truthful?

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                • Truthful“? By whose standards? Religion and truth are rarely companions.

                  Still awaiting your proof that there is “No other god but Allah” —

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                  • paarsurrey says:

                    Quran/Islam/Muhammad always denied that there was any other God except the One-True-God Allah Yahweh.

                    [21:37] And when the disbelievers see thee, they only make a jest of thee. They say: ‘Is this the one who makes an evil mention of your gods?’ While it is they themselves who reject with disdain the mention of the Gracious God.

                    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=21&verse=36

                    Atheism is confusion, frustration and doubt only; nothing to do with truth.

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                    • “Quran/Islam/Muhammad always denied that there was any other God except the One-True-God Allah Yahweh.”

                      Oh, I DO hope you’re not calling that proof! The Bible says to stone your children to death if they disobey you. Books written by ignorant men may say anything. I’m going to need outside proof that there is no god but Allah – you DO have it, don’t you? I need more than the word of an illiterate camel driver.

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                    • paarsurrey says:

                      It is on the other claimants to prove that there are some god/s; we believe in only One-True-God Allah Yahweh.

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                    • “It is on the other claimants to prove that there are some god/s; we believe in only One-True-God Allah Yahweh.”

                      I am SO glad you said that Paarsurrey! You have been telling us that it is our responsibility to prove there are no gods, but now you appear to have reversed your position and decided that it is up to those who believe there ARE gods, to prove it, which is what I’ve been saying all along.

                      Now that we are in complete agreement, I would expect you will shortly be presenting us with some verifiable proof that your One-True-God Allah Yahweh exists!

                      I’ll be looking forward to it, as I am sure we will all be!

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                    • paarsurrey says:

                      I am happy that you are so glad; it is good for your health.

                      Do you exist?

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                    • Does your Allah exist? – I asked you first – if the answer is affirmative, please provide verifiable proof, that you, yourself, said is required of those who would claim that gods exist.

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                    • paarsurrey says:

                      If you are not sure that you exist; then to me you don’t merit to ask this question.
                      Nevertheless you may remain glad in your non–existence or illusion.

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                    • I didn’t say I wasn’t sure I existed, I said I asked you first, and you are deliberately deflecting, even though you are the one who began this discussion, so either hold up your end and provide us with verifiable evidence that your Allah exists, or bow out in disgrace. Wonder how your Allah would like that?
                      Allah, it’s me, Paarsurrey – they want me to provide verifiable evidence that you exist – WHAT DO I DO???

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                    • makagutu says:

                      I can’t wait for this proof. It has been long overdue and am glad he came to this point. Should have been a eureka moment for him.

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                    • I had to kind of steer him in the right direction —

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                    • makagutu says:

                      Maybe he will change the question. He sure knows how to dance

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                    • makagutu says:

                      Since we have no belief in any, would you be kind as to provide proof for the one true god

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                    • paarsurrey says:

                      I believe in the One-True-God very naturally; like I believe in me and my mother and father. It is quite natural and reasonable for me to continue believing as such till somebody convinces me otherwise with proofs and evidences.

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                    • Remember saying this, Paarsurrey:
                      It is on the claimants to prove that there are some god/s
                      Well, now you are the claimant: “I believe in the One-True-God very naturally;” – now it is time to prove it, you said so yourself. Remember now – verifiable – not just more words from your book.

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                    • makagutu says:

                      Atheism is confusion, frustration and doubt only; nothing to do with truth.

                      It’s bad enough believing in fairies in this age, Islam even worse! To quote the Koran as evidence for the premise it makes is ridiculous

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                    • But in case you weren’t following too closely, Mak, when I asked him to PROVE there were no other gods but Allah, he suddenly decided that proving there were NO gods was too difficult, and did a 180, deciding that those who propose that there ARE gods, are the ones who need to prove it. As it is, I’m presently awaiting his verifiable evidence that his Allah exists.

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                    • makagutu says:

                      I have seen that turnabout and can’t wait for him to answer your question

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                    • paarsurrey says:

                      I don’t believe in fairies; do you believe in them?

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                    • You seem to have far more questions, than answers – where’s your verifiable evidence that Allah exists? Still waiting on that —

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        • makagutu says:

          You conveniently ignore the criticism of Al Razi and start on the famous line but you haven’t read my book. I haven’t finished the Koran but I have an online version I refer to whenever I meet a Mohamet’s follower.

          Curious though, why would your one true god reveal itself in just a single language and insist that he reveals his book in Arabic?

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  6. ah, always great when this god changes its modus operandi when the believers have no choice to admit that their claims are garbage.. Suddenly, rather than talking directly to its followers and hanging out with them in their homes, this god now has to communicate by charades and vague “miracles” and “messages”.

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  7. Eric Alagan says:

    I had a good chuckle 🙂

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  8. Brisancian says:

    Great post. I’ve been mulling over remarks from a friend on the same score lately. Solipsism. Egoism. Piety. They are the same thing.

    Like

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