A question for believers


I hope there are enough of you who visit this blog.

Mathew writes

All things whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive[ 21:22]

And at the same time you believe the god you believe in is omniscient and all loving. Is it possible that either he doesn’t care, it his will that shit happens to you and you are offending s/h/it by asking for the problem to be taken away or worse still, you are suggesting that this god you believe in could have been wrong and you want them to chair their mind?

In brief, am asking why pray?

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

216 thoughts on “A question for believers

  1. Ruth says:

    There are many scriptures that instruct people to pray for tangible things: “Ask anything in my name and it will be given”, “The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much”, etc.

    Then the people are slapped on the hand for actually taking God up on it and praying for “selfish” motives.

    When I first became a Christian I prayed for everything, mostly other people, but also things I wanted. Rarely were prayers answered and I came to view it as a terrible average. There was no God granting the handful of things that actually went the way I wanted them to. It was the law of averages Ask for enough things and surely some of them are bound to happen, even without a God. Questioning the efficacy of prayer I finally, in the end, came to the conclusion that prayer really is no more than meditation. My church leaders said that prayer was not to change God’s mind, it was to change my heart and align my desires with those of God. When I pointed out that most of the things I’d come to pray about were found in scripture(salvation of others, healing, his will on earth as in heaven), I was told that his will on earth started with me.

    I ended up just removing God from the equation. What good was he in my prayer? So I meditate.

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  2. Ron says:

    “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.”

    ― Christopher Hitchens

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  3. Charity says:

    The Bible was the number one thing that turned me away from the faith, prayer was a close second.

    I converted at the age of three, I deconverted at 39 years old. I have had Christian bloggers tell me that I have misinterpreted Scripture and prayed selfish prayers. My dad thinks I need deliverance. I say bull shit to everyone one of them.

    I spent countless years praying for the will of God, healing for myself and others, salvation for non believers, unity, jobs for the jobless, marriages, protection for myself and other children and for love to minister to dozens of people who bullied and abused me while I tried to befriend them with kindness. I prayed all day, every day…for years! As Ruth mentioned earlier, when you pray that often the odds are high that one will get “answered” once in a great while.

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    • makagutu says:

      During your believing heydays, how different was what you prayed for as god’s will different from your will or rather what you wanted to happen?

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      • Charity says:

        Hey Mak,

        For the most part, I didn’t normally see much of a difference. I kept in mind how Jesus said to pray,”on earth as it is in heaven.” As a Christian, I sincerely believed that heaven was a place of pure love and wholeness. In return, I prayed for healing and love for myself and others.

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        • makagutu says:

          In a sense, our will and god’s will seem to me to be the same for I don’t see a way someone would ask for something they didn’t want to happen.
          Instead of offering supplications to the heavens, it would have been better for them to actually do something.

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  4. Ron says:

    The Best Optical Illusion in the World

    Like God, the Jug of Milk always answers prayers. The answer is, “yes”, “no” or “later”.

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  5. Roman Dawes says:

    I pray for strength I would otherwise not know without God, perspective I wouldn’t otherwise see. I pray for comfort and relief for those in distress and merciful intervention should God see fit.

    While a wise god would not take care of people, I believe God does perform miracles for the purpose of revelation, and sometimes, those miracles take the form of answers to prayers.

    I rarely ever pray for things, or for God to rearrange the world to my personal liking.

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    • makagutu says:

      Why would a wise god perform miracles? Is that consistent with a wise person unless it is to confound? Or can we agree here that the god you claim here is a charlatan or an illusionist?

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      • You received an answer to the question you posed in your blog now lets address some of your different questions:

        “1)Why would a wise god perform miracles?2) Is that consistent with a wise person unless it is to confound? 3) Or can we agree here that the god you claim here is a charlatan or an illusionist?”

        1) Lots of reasons. Just for example: as a form of evidence that he exists and also a form of evidence that he has more wisdom than us.

        2) Yes it is consistent with God being wise.

        3)No I don’t agree. Why would you think that?

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        • makagutu says:

          You are saying an omniscient god would resort to the same shenanigans as done by the Egyptian sorcerers to prove it was? You find nothing ridiculous about this? You think a god should perform tricks to make us believe it is?

          I don’t agree with you.

          Only charlatans would resort to tricks to convince us they have powers the rest of us don’t. If a god were, it should have been easily discernible without the need to resort to little tricks

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          • “You are saying an omniscient god would resort to the same shenanigans as done by the Egyptian sorcerers to prove it was?”
            No

            ” You find nothing ridiculous about this?”
            By “this” do you mean your question?
            I don’t find it ridiculous that God would give evidence of himself and his authority through miracles.

            ” You think a god should perform tricks to make us believe it is?”

            I don’t think tricks and miracles are the same thing.

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          • makagutu says:

            No, I mean your insistence that it is in order for your god to be in competition with sorcerers. How can my question be ridiculous?

            Indulge me, what is a miracle?

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          • No, I mean your insistence that it is in order for your god to be in competition with sorcerers. How can my question be ridiculous?

            Indulge me, what is a miracle?

            I don’t insist that God is in competition with sorcerers especially not as you describe them as “charlatans” or people who merely do “tricks.”

            I’m not really up for giving a super technical definition of a miracle but here is the basic understanding, as I see it.

            “A temporary suspension or violation of natural laws brought on through God’s direct action or in cooperation with God.”

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          • makagutu says:

            Do you think the sun stopped for 7 hours so that Joshua could continue with his killing spree or you don’t consider this a miracle?

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          • I tend not to read the old testament literally. But I did review the passage and if we take it literally it appears the sun and moon did stand still – not only that but the earth would have stopped rotating. At least that is one interpretation.

            Might it have been God effecting time somehow for those fighting in the war so it appeared the sun stood still? I can’t answer that.

            But if either of these did happen then it would be a miracle because the biblical passage makes it fairly clear that Joshua asked for God’s help and it was God cooperating with this.

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    • Good answer. You mean Christopher Hitchen’s couldn’t read your mind?

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  6. NikkiJR says:

    I remember one memorable answered prayer. It was a day before my birthday and it was a warm dry month. It used to snow faithfully in January, but that January it was already showing signs of spring.
    Having lived on an island as a child; I have grown to appreciate the seasons of the US. I told myself that I don’t want anything for my birthday, but snow. I said a silent prayer that day, and the next morning I awoke to snow falling from the sky. It snowed all that day, but it didn’t last to the next day. It was such a wonderful birthday gift. Nothing is impossible when you pray and have faith that your prayers will be heard.

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  7. NikkiJR says:

    A prayer saved my life instantly too. I was dating a dangerous man at the time. It was early in the morning after a long night of drinking. We got into another argument, and I was driving. He slapped me in the mouth and I began to hit him. All this was while driving. I realized what I was doing, and I threw my car into park while driving and I jumped out of my car. I ran to the nearest building which had a bouncer outside. It was a strip joint. My ex pulled in and the bouncer convinced him to give me my car back. As I drove away I was yelling drunk obscenities at him, and I went back to the motel we lived in at the time. I rushed getting my things but he had car jacked someone’s car and came there as I was leaving. I knew I was in for it. As I scrambled to get into my vehicle through the passenger side he threw himself on me and began choking me. I weighed about one fifteen at the time. I am not a big woman by any measure. As I looked into his eyes I knew he was going to kill me. I gasped a prayer, two words, “help me.”
    The next thing I knew he let go and I heard voices. There were three men there. It’s three in the morning at a dumpy motel. No one was around.
    Anyways they convinced him to leave with them saying the cops were called etc…

    I have no doubt in my mind that Yahweh heard my prayer and that He saved me.

    I did hear back from my ex about a week later. Those men robbed and beat him. They left him on the side of the road by a closed down gas station. He had a friend who got hotel a motel room. That’s where he stayed healing from his wounds. Then he threatened me bla bla. I was long gone from there though.

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    • NikkiJR says:

      There is no way that I could doubt prayer or Yahweh. Yahweh has been in my life since day one. Even though I used to misunderstand Him, and I thought I hated Him. He never left my side. He never gave up on me. Even when I used to be a Satanist. HalleluYah.

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    • Arkenaten says:

      Do you read Mickey Spillane novels by any chance?
      I was expecting, ”dame” or ”broad” to pop up at any moment.
      Just how gullible do you think the average reader of Mak’s blog is?

      “What an imagination you have,”
      “All the more to make you believe, my dear.”

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      • NikkiJR says:

        No I have reserved all my time to reading the Bible. I have been reading it for almost five years so I am out of the loop literature wise. I am the comments that followed are lost to me.
        I can see how someone can doubt my experiences. After all no one else was there to witness it, but the people involved. But I did live through it, and I am grateful. My ex? Not so much.

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        • Arkenaten says:

          Unfortunately You have no blog and no details so you must excuse my Doubting Thomas mind.
          It’s not that I would call you a liar, I don’t know you well enough – but I do believe you have little idea what the truth is, and I for one, am not a credulous person. I have difficulty taking for granted any tale that smacks of spurious invention. Like the bible, for example.
          But Santa Claus is okay, of course. He’s real.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            I had no idea that it says that I do not exist. I will have to get to the bottom of that. Can I ask you why you choose an Egyptian statue as your picture? Egyptian’s have all kinds of beliefs and several, “g-d’s” Just curious, thanks.

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          • makagutu says:

            She tells me she believes the things she writes, maybe we have to take her word for it.

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      • kcchief1 says:

        I think what some of the christian commenters fail to realize is according to their bible, it rains on the just and unjust alike. Which means for every story where “a prayer” has been granted another prayer has been denied. Or a blessing could be granted to one not deserving. Rain does not always equate to blessing either. So NikkiJR could have just as easily had her request denied. But if this had happened her response then would be, “Well god has his reasons…or god’s ways are not always our ways”. So you see, in her world, god wins every time. Quite the clever fellow indeed.

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        • NikkiJR says:

          Actually I was a Satanist at the time. Ironically I still prayed to Yahweh in tight situations even then.
          He didn’t have to help. And the prayer had just left my lips when those guys showed up. But Yahweh knew I misunderstood Him. I just didn’t know Him. He knew once I did; I would be just as faithful towards Him as I was against Him. And He is right as always. Once I grew to know Yahweh through His word. I have made it my life’s goal to dedicate every waking moment to doing what’s right by Him. HalleluYah

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          • kcchief1 says:

            “And He is right as always.”

            My point exactly !

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          • NikkiJR says:

            I have to give credit where it’s due. 😉

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          • kcchief1 says:

            He is also credited for cursing at a tree when it wasn’t even in season to bare fruit and repeatedly saying he only came for the Jews. And he told his followers he would come back in “their” lifetime. Are you OK with giving him credit for doing these things too ?

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Lol. It must have been in season, and I must have missed the cursing part because I don’t remember seeing that. Actually Yahweh sent Yahshua for the lost sheep of Israel. The Israelites are not all Jews.

            It’s a fascinating story about one man who was tricked into marrying one woman while trying to marry another. Throw their maids into the mix and he ended up with twelve sons from four women. Which by the way; none of them were Jews! The man’s name? Jacob who later was renamed Israel.

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          • kcchief1 says:

            Mark 11:12-25
            New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
            Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

            12 On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see whether perhaps he would find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. 14 He said to it, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard it.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            I am picky about translations. I will check out the season thing, but I still don’t see any cussing.

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          • kcchief1 says:

            Oh, now that I proved you wrong you want to get picky about translations. You are so typical. 🙂 Which translation do you prefer ?

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          • NikkiJR says:

            I am just not familiar with that one. I have the bible called word of Yahweh

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          • kcchief1 says:

            You can go to http://www.biblegateway.com and look at every translation available. Maybe not yours though. I never heard of it.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Yeah I like bgw but not really on my phone. I have my own applications for that.
            http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0967938643?pc_redir=1395893587&robot_redir=1

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          • makagutu says:

            The one that agrees with her

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          • kcchief1 says:

            There ya go !

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          • makagutu says:

            What decoder ring do you use? I could get myself one

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          • NikkiJR says:

            I ask the author. I trust He will answer, and I read from cover to cover.

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          • makagutu says:

            Does he send email when he answers or he calls?

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          • makagutu says:

            How does he reach you? Emails or phone calls or is it the old telegraph/ telegram?

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Mk 11:13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.

            This translation seems to imply that it was on the verge of the season.

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          • kcchief1 says:

            Now you’re being just plain silly ! 99% of all trees have leaves year around even when they are not in season to produce fruit.

            You just can’t admit to being wrong ! Isn’t this what you were giving mak a hard time about recently ????

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Lol. I have yet to see if this account is in the other testimonies and see if they line up. But if I am wrong about the season. I will admit it. There’s is no shame in learning something new lol.

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          • kcchief1 says:

            So… you don’t believe the bible I used . Do you ever question why there are so many bible translations in the first place ?

            You are really acting very childish in your arguements.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            It’s not that at all. I check each testimony for the same account in the same bible. Each testimony. Some have a little more to offer. Like this verse for instance. I thought that I had read it somewhere and that it had more to it. I do know why there are so many translations. And I will tell you why I am picky. I first read NIV but it says that human women procreated with angelic beings. That’s false! So you really have to be Careful and do your homework.

            The Elder at my assembly uses your translation and I don’t have anything ill top day about it. I am truly not familiar with it. Honestly. I can’t be any more honest than that.

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          • kcchief1 says:

            “And I will tell you why I am picky. I first read NIV but it says that human women procreated with angelic beings. That’s false! So you really have to be Careful and do your homework. ”

            Where is your evidence that this is false. I just read the ETZ HAYIM, the Torah and Commentary written by Jewish Scholars and it point to angelic beings procreating with human women.

            The Oxford Bible Commentary eludes to the same thing.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Interesting, thats why I do my homework!! Lol. It is late but I will tell you tomorrow and have all the scriptures along with it.

            But before I go. I will tell you without scripture why it’s impossible. First off who creates life? Who has this ability and power? Second are angels the only ones called the sons of g-d? Thirdly have you looked into the Hebrew for all the wording in these verses? Lastly, Angel can also man preacher or minister. This is for the reference in the NT about the sake of the angels…

            Night!

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          • kcchief1 says:

            The link you provided offered NO evidence at all, just an opinion. Where is their evidence to back up what they are saying. I referred to the Oxford Bible Commentary and the ETZ HAYIM a Jewish Torah Commentary who both understood the Sons of God were angels.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            All true doctrines, traditions, and beliefs began in the word and they have roots in the OT and continue in the NT. And the doctrines repeat. Angels cannot produce life on their own. Only Yahweh has the power to do so and He had only done so Himself, and through Messiah Yahshua. No where in the Bible are angels knocking up women. It didn’t happen in genesis and it doesn’t repeat anywhere else. But this doctrine is believed in pagan religions. Demi g-ds I think they call them, but not in the Bible. What is in the Bible is the fact that righteous men of Yahweh are warned and disciplined for marrying outside of Israel, and the faith of Messiah Yahshua. This is repeated all throughout the scripture.

            http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=sons+of+god&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

            Proves that this term is for both obedient men of Yahweh and angels.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Here is my answer. I forgot that I blogged this.

            http://biblicalanswers2everydayquestions.wordpress.com/

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          • makagutu says:

            Maybe she could just share her translation so we can refer to it whenever there is a discrepancy

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          • kcchief1 says:

            Good idea mak ! If only the whole world had her translation….. 🙂

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          • makagutu says:

            but she may say we read it wrongly or we didn’t have faith. The christian will always catch you

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          • NikkiJR says:

            First Yahshua didn’t curse at the tree. You provided the scripture already that proved this. Second I already explained that anyone could become an Israelite then and today by converting. Also that Yahshua did preach to the Jew first.

            http://www.yaiy.org/studyaids/israel.html

            The link has all scriptures about Israel and what’s taught about Israel.

            27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
            (Matt 16:27-28 KJV Strongs)

            This is a true statement, but not in the way you perceive it. There are two deaths in scripture. The first: when we die. The second: after judgement day when the wicked souls of those who rebel are completely destroyed in the lake of fire.

            The first to be taken up are the wicked. Those who remain are the righteous.
            This article explains this doctrine and provides the scriptures to back it up:
            http://www.yaiy.org/literature/IsRapture.html

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          • kcchief1 says:

            Jesus Only For Jews:
            Matthew 15:22-24
            “And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel”.

            Matthew 10:5-6
            “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel”.

            Matthew 19:28
            “And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel”.

            Note:
            1.) Jesus refuses to attend to a gentile because he was only sent to the Children of Israel.
            2.) He warns his disciples not to preach to gentiles.
            3.) He said he would judge the tribes of Israel

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Notice the twelve thrones…

            And your are aware of the many times that Yashua said that the kingdom must first be taught to the Jew then the gentiles.
            It’s no secret that the caananites were never to be part of Israel. Paul was the one with the gentle ministry.

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          • kcchief1 says:

            I have been providing scriptures for my comments. Where are your scriptures to backup yours ? Other commenters have pointed this out to you before. If you are going to refute something someone says, you need to back it up with scripture.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Sure thing;
            Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

            Here is one about both…

            Rom 3:29 Is he the Elohim of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

            Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

            1Cor 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, the Messiah is the power of יהוה, and the wisdom of יהוה.

            1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

            Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how יהוה at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

            Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to יהוה, and do works meet for repentance.

            Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the glad tidings of the Messiah: for it is the power of יהוה unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

            Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

            Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

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          • kcchief1 says:

            Nice try but Yashua didn’t say any of those. None of those scriptures were “Red Letter” quotes from Jesus.

            My initial comment says, “He is also credited for cursing at a tree when it wasn’t even in season to bare fruit and repeatedly saying he only came for the Jews.”

            It’s obvious I was implying Jesus not Paul !

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          • NikkiJR says:

            No but you were implying that Yahshua’s sacrifice is only for the Jews. At least that’s how it came off to me. 🙂

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

            He didn’t come only for the people we call Jews today.

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          • kcchief1 says:

            “NikkiJR says:

            April 4, 2014 at 07:01

            Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

            He didn’t come only for the people we call Jews today.”

            You just proved my point. He said , I am not sent (to anyone) but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

            You read it wrong. If you don’t believe me go ask your “Elder”

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Are you familiar with why Israel has lost tribes to begin with??

            I am tired. Yawn..you may have a point about reading things wrong right now. I have three little ones under the age of eight so bear with me! 🙂

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          • NikkiJR says:

            The house of Israel included those not native born. Anyone was able to convert to the twelve tribes. And they did!

            48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
            (Ex 12:48-49 KJV Strongs)

            The same can be said about the Jews. Jews have converts just like all other faiths, but Jews don’t go out to find them. People generally go to them to convert. I have had one Jew try to convert me, but I don’t believe she was born Jewish.

            As you see; Yahshua came for all of the lost sheep of the house of Israel. His message surely was preached first to the Jew then to the gentiles. Whether it was by Him or not. That woman who begged for His help; didn’t try to repent. I trust that she eventually did though.

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          • kcchief1 says:

            I’m going to bed. You have lots of research to do.

            1.) The fig tree out of season
            2.) Why are all of the NT scriptures I provided are missing in most bibles today
            3.) Why Jesus said he came only for the Jews (house of Israel)
            4.) Why Jesus assured his followers he would return in their lifetime and HE DID NOT.

            There will be a test tomorrow ! 🙂
            Goodnight ! 🙂

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Lol…Night!

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          • kcchief1 says:

            “Thirdly have you looked into the Hebrew for all the wording in these verses?”

            Yes, and I provided my source, the ETZ HAYIM Jewish Commentary of the Torah.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Sorry I didn’t realize. I go by strong concordance. I do not trust the Jewish religious leaders, not Christian ones. And even the SEC had to be double checked with their claims.

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          • NikkiJR says:

            Especially commentary!

            I pray for truth from the source and I read the word. I encourage you to do the same.

            Why would I trust Christian leaders that tech rebellion to the Holy instructions to the Torah? Why would I trust the Jewish scribes who deny the Messiah, and who deny the use of Yahweh Holy name when all throughout the Torah they called, and superstores Yahweh by honoring His Holy name. They were also told to proclaim it as well.

            The Bible tells us that the Messiah is our sacrifice because we cannot earn salvation by obedience to the law alone. They didn’t back then either. They had animals. We are to enter into the promise of obedience through baptism in the Messiah Yahshua’s powerful and Holy true name. And we are expected to obey the commands that are still in effect.

            This is my understanding and it’s verified in the entire Bible. 🙂

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          • makagutu says:

            That really is quite some work. To dedicate your waking moments to satisfying a delusion

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        • makagutu says:

          Ken, I thought by now this was clear to you.
          On the believer’s worldview, every prayer is answered and there are a variety of answers. You can’t win against them on this no matter how hard you try.

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  8. kcchief1 says:

    This is exactly what Christians do. They search for translations that agree with them. Even worse, they pick 1 verse to suit their beliefs.

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  9. kcchief1 says:

    BTW be careful about which translation you use. Most modern day translations have removed NT scriptures including Red Letter scriptures attributed to Jesus.

    I taught a Sunday School Class on this several years ago. ” “AND we’re not even sure what Jesus said. 8 NT scriptures attributed to Jesus have already been removed from many modern day bibles because over the past 100 years we have found older manuscripts which do not have these verses. A majority of modern bible scholars have determined these scriptures were added at a later date probably by redactors . Bibles which still publish these scriptures at least provide footnotes to this effect. BTW the missing “Red Letter” scriptures are : Mt 17:21, 18:11, 23:14, Mk 7:16, 9:44, 9:46, 11:26, Lk 17:36

    In addition you have entire stories not found in older manuscripts. Mk 16:9-20 the “Ascension Story” Lk 24:3,6,9,12,36,40, 51 & 52 have been termed dubious and unlikely as they do not appear in earlier and more reliable manuscripts. Also John 8:1-11 “The Woman caught in adultry” for the same reasons.”

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  10. kcchief1 says:

    Or a Mary Baker Eddy follower …

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  11. kcchief1 says:

    Or 7th Day Adventist ? My My there are so many to consider ! 🙂

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