The eyewitness question


We had posted this but with inspiration we received from this post there can be no better time to have a rerun.

The following conversation takes place between us and the apostles.

We ask

How long have you known Jesus?

I have known him for one year.

And I for two.

And I for three.

Has any of you known him for more than three years?

No.

Was he with his apostles for one year or for three?

For one.

No, for three.

You are not certain, then, how long Jesus was with his apostles.

No.

How old was Jesus when crucified?

About thirty-one.

No, about thirty-three.

No, he was much older, about fifty.

You cannot tell with any certainty, then, his age at the time of his death.

No.

You say he was tried and crucified in Jerusalem before your own eyes, can you remember the date of this great event?

We cannot.

Were you present when Jesus was taken down from the cross?

We were not.

You cannot tell, then, whether he was dead when taken down.

We have no personal knowledge.

Were you present when he was buried?

We were not, because we were in hiding for our lives.

You do not know, therefore, whether he was actually buried, or where he was buried.

We do not.

Were any of you present when Jesus came forth from the grave?

Not one of us was present,

Then, you were not with him when he was taken down from the cross; you were not with him when he was interred, and you were not present when he rose from the grave.

We were not.

When, therefore, you say, he was dead, buried and rose again, you are relying upon the testimony of others?

We are.

Will you mention the names of some of the witnesses who saw Jesus come forth from the tomb?

Mary Magdalene, and she is here and may be questioned.

Were you present, Mary, when the angels rolled away the stone, and when Jesus came forth from the dead?

No, when I reached the burying place early in the morning, the grave had already been vacated, and there was no one sleeping in it.

You saw him, then, as the apostles did, _after_ he had risen?

Yes.

But you did not see anybody rise out of the grave.

I did not.

Are there any witnesses who saw the resurrection?

There are many who saw him after the resurrection.

But if neither they nor you saw him dead, and buried, and did not see him rise, either, how can you tell that a most astounding and supposedly impossible miracle had taken place between the time you saw him last and when you saw him again two or three days after? Is it not more natural to suppose that, being in a hurry on account of the approaching Sabbath, Jesus, if ever crucified, was taken down from the cross before he had really died, and that he was not buried, as rumor states, but remained in hiding; and his showing himself to you under cover of darkness and in secluded spots and in the dead of night only, would seem to confirm this explanation. You admit also that the risen Jesus did not present himself at the synagogues of the people, in the public streets, or at the palace of the High Priest to convince them of his Messiahship.

Do you not think that if he had done this, it would then have been impossible to deny his resurrection? Why, then, did Jesus hide himself after he came out of the grave? Why did he not show himself also to his enemies? Was he still afraid of them, or did he not care whether they believed or not? If so, why are _you_ trying to convert them? The question waits for a reasonable answer; Why did not Jesus challenge the whole world with the evidence of his resurrection? You say you saw him occasionally, a few moments at a time, now here, and now there, and finally on the top of a mountain whence he was caught up in a cloud and disappeared altogether. But that “cloud” has melted away, the sky is clear, and there is no Jesus visible there. The cloud, then, had nothing to hide. It was unnecessary to call in a cloud to close the career of your Christ.The grave is empty, the cloud has vanished. Where is Christ? In heaven! Ah, you have at last removed him to a world unknown, to the undiscovered country. Leave him there! Criticism, doubt, investigation, the light of day, cannot cross its shores. Leave him there!

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

46 thoughts on “The eyewitness question

  1. john zande says:

    Well, when you put it that way….

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  2. Oh ye of little faith. There’s no prophet profit if they leave him there. Nor morphine drips.

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    • makagutu says:

      Ah we forget it is for profit 🙂
      It’s hard to keep track especially when their teacher admonishes the rich whenever he could, that is granting he lived!

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  3. archaeopteryx1 says:

    There is a group, Mak – granted, a fringe group, but then Christians, at one time, were a fringe group and look at them now – who believe Jesus was secretly married to Mary Magdalene, aka, Dan Brown’s Davinci Code, and that he did not die on the cross, but rather he and Mary M escaped to Roman-held France, where they lived out their days. Of the group that was protecting the secret, one of these was an artist (whose name escapes me), who did a painting of Jesus being taken down from the cross. Joseph of Arimathea is in it, as well as several men who are downloading Jesus body. In the upper left corner, the artist has painted a rising moon, which would imply nightfall – anyone who knows anything about Jewish customs, knows that Jewish tradition forbids anyone handling the dead after nightfall, the implication being a subtle hint, by the artist, that when he was taken down, Jesus was still alive.

    I’ll try and email you the URL to the video, Mak, but if I post it here, the video will automatically appear, and I’d rather not take up your blog that way, as it really isn’t relevant to your topic.

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    • Arch — your comment reminded me of this. Wondered if you’d seen it yet. It’s making a lot of Christians squirm, especially the RCC.

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      • archaeopteryx1 says:

        No, I hadn’t seen it, but I do rather enjoy the sight of squirming Christians. The fragment is also mentioned in the video I spoke of, and since we’ve already aroused ample curiosity, I’ll go ahead and post it:

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    • makagutu says:

      I would love to watch that, they are fringe groups and they are never in short supply!
      You can just post it here, there is no problem and you know that by now.

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  4. aguywithoutboxers says:

    Great job, as usual, my Nairobi brother! I’m not a legal counselor, but I have watched enough episodes of Law & Order to know all this is inadmissible in a court of law as it’s all hearsay evidence. For someone who came back to life after being dead, amazing that no one outside his group of co-conspirators ever saw him.

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    • makagutu says:

      You know, and especially for a guy who had said you can destroy the temple and it shall be rebuilt in 3 days. You would think he would go to Pilate and say hey men, I told you I’d be back, am here now, what will you do now?

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      • archaeopteryx1 says:

        Seemed like a perfect place for that line from the movie, “Poltergeist, “I’m baaaaaaaack –!”

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      • aguywithoutboxers says:

        My thoughts exactly. This occurred to me after I posted my above comment. And not only to Pilate (who was nothing more than a bit player in the entire myth) but to the Jewish Council as well. Oh well, a moment of high drama as a missed golden opportunity to appease a deity who craves affection. Much love and best wishes to you, O Holiness of All Holinesses!

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        • makagutu says:

          I mean even the soldiers would have wanted to know of what came of their charge especially since they couldn’t say who opened the tomb!

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          • archaeopteryx1 says:

            And I’m thinking they been in SO much trouble! “You lost a DEAD GUY? Who DOES that?!!”

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          • makagutu says:

            That is the worst type of guard to have. A corpse gets lost? Had he been buried like a Pharaoh with gold and you know what else you could say thieves came for the body to steal the gold, but this…. no, we can’t buy it

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          • archaeopteryx1 says:

            Someone on one of these blogs (I’m on so MANY!) said something the other day that I had to do a double-take about – he left his burial cloths behind, neatly laundered and folded – what was he wearing?

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          • makagutu says:

            That was yours truly on Matt’s blog.
            You know, there are many questions to ask from the face of it even before we start asking why the story doesn’t appear in contemporary history

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          • aguywithoutboxers says:

            Precisely! What better way to validate a mythical miracle than to confront the very men who killed him? Makes no sense, but then, the entire story reeks of a fairy tale gone nuclear. 🙂

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          • makagutu says:

            It was right who said it is simpler to say the truth, with the first lie, that he was born of a virgin, the lies had to get bigger and bigger and therein lies the problem

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          • aguywithoutboxers says:

            Much like our modern governments…the lies just keep getting bigger and bigger! 😉

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          • makagutu says:

            And you know they must. Truth is a simpler course to take but no one prefers it, for what reason, yours truly can’t claim to know

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          • aguywithoutboxers says:

            I can only guess it’s because A) they fear the truth or B) the truth would cause their loss of power. Then there’s the greed factor. Who knows for certain?

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          • makagutu says:

            who knows really is the question

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          • aguywithoutboxers says:

            Very true! They’re all so secretive about all matters. Official discretion, I suppose! 🙂

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  5. Eric Alagan says:

    The faith started off with the best of intentions, I believe – yes, belief, no proof.

    But very quickly someone thought – hey, there’s great wealth and power to be had here. The rest as they say is his_story!

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  6. Ron says:

    Your post reminded of this:

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  7. Mordanicus says:

    It’s very unlikely that he actually died on the cross, since it was a very slow method of execution (which was on purpose, as the Romans were perfectly capable of killing one quickly). If the guy was taken off (also a very unlikely event, which would probably impossible without bribing some soldiers) only after a few hours, he might unconscious but not death.

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  8. Sonel says:

    Great post Mak! I only believe in what I can see and experienced when it comes to matters like this. It’s fascinating what some people can believe even though they’re not even sure it’s the truth, but who am I to tell them otherwise? Didn’t you know that everything you read on Facebook and Wikipedia must the be truth? 😆

    I am sure a lot will bombard you with verses from their ‘book’, as they usually do when they really don’t know the answer. 😆

    Like

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