Did Jesus exist


Our good friend the Ark wrote this and it occurred to me to ask a very pertinent question. At what point in the history of the church did the gospel authors get the title saint? I don’t think anyone writing would have called himself St Mathew.

I don’t understand this inspiration business. Since the gospel authors do not claim to be witnesses for example Luke 1: 1-4 , how do they claim to know what Jesus thought in some occasions when he was in private? How did they know?

And why should we believe these people? Why should we take them seriously and dismiss the Odyssey with the stories of Minerva. Is not the gospels high fiction where we have a man born of a virgin, hang on a cross and then an empty grave followed by ascension to heaven ensuring there is no scrap of evidence left behind to be considered.

I hope someday someone will come with good enough evidence for the Jesus of the bible. I am unconvinced of his historicity.

And in the words of Moncure D. Conway,

The world has been for a long time engaged in writing lives of Jesus… The library of such books has grown since then. But when we come to examine them, one startling fact confronts us: all of these books relate to a personage concerning whom there does not exist a single scrap of contemporary information — not one! By accepted tradition he was born in the reign of Augustus, the great literary age of the nation of which he was a subject. In the Augustan age historians flourished; poets, orators, critics and travelers abounded. Yet not one mentions the name of Jesus Christ, much less any incident in his life. 

we say we are far from persuaded to believe your stories. And as somebody else wrote, let us leave Jesus in the clouds where he ascended to.

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

63 thoughts on “Did Jesus exist

  1. Arkenaten says:

    In other words…it is all a load of codswallop.
    They made it up…I concur!

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  2. Mordanicus says:

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    Since the NT makes the most extraordinary claims, the quality of evidence presented is surprisingly low.

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  3. Why do you think christianity’s #1 doctrine is “faith”?
    This should explain it all!
    Faith leaves no room for evidence, but utterly dismisses it, making doubt the top “sin”.
    Everything christian theology has ever written, has faith as a pre-requisite, rendering everything based upon it, non-factual and therefore empirically irrelevant.
    One may write a whole library of xtian theology, with thousands of cross references, all in the end, just crutches for a daydream…
    It would be as I would open a hospital with doctors specialised in the orthopaedic surgery of angel wing fractures…

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    • makagutu says:

      Rom my friend, you have been MIA for a while now.
      Faith, faith, faith, that is all the Christian got and that is the shaman sells him.
      Such a hospital dept wouldn’t lack for patients 😛

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  4. “let us leave Jesus in the clouds where he ascended to.”

    Yes! Hasn’t enough blood been shed in order to keep the myth alive?

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  5. melouisef says:

    As I said to Ark, atheists know the bible very well!

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    • makagutu says:

      I think atheists, like Ark, are idle and have nothing else to read 😛
      I agree with you. Non believers spend so much time reading this so called sacred books to understand why some people find them appealing.

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  6. Ruth says:

    I don’t understand this inspiration business, either. I’m still waiting for an answer about it. I think it must involve a divining rod.

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    • makagutu says:

      Hahaha, that must be it.

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      • Ruth says:

        I was right. A divining rod. A crappy one at that.

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        • makagutu says:

          I saw Brandon’s explanation to you on what scripture is. That fellow can write crap and long paragraphs of it!

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          • Ruth says:

            He could have summarized.

            I believe the parts I like and the I discount the parts I don’t. It’s the same difference.

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          • makagutu says:

            I have seen your comment where you say the same thing.
            I think there are those who can’t summarize. There is one on John’s blog called Roy, if he had his way, his comments would be 2 pages long. I don’t know who reads all that bs.

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          • Ruth says:

            I guess, inasmuch as I’m taking what he says at face-value, he’s processing these thoughts as he writes them. So maybe he’s thinking through it by writing? Idk.

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          • makagutu says:

            The more reason I can’t take him seriously. How can one believe and write such things really?

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          • Ruth says:

            I will say, though, that he’s the one who brought up the “test” and said he didn’t have one when he “first” reconverted. So that would lead me to believe, which is why I asked the question, that he had some formula now. Surely he didn’t just now come up with that…um…display of scientific control.

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          • makagutu says:

            Ah, so he has a formula. I actually need one to use to identify what is and what isn’t scripture. There are books I read and they look like they would do for Sunday reading.

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          • Ruth says:

            Well, I was expecting a formula. What I got was a diving rod. sigh…

            What puzzles me is why a physician would count guess-work as a formula.

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          • makagutu says:

            My dear friend, you are quite ambitious as I can see.

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          • Ruth says:

            I’m not really, but I was curious. Curiosity killed the cat. Do I learn nothing from this?!?

            Anyway, what puzzles me even more is that anyone would think they could convince other people of this nonsense. I mean really, if I wrote that, and then read it, I could totally see why no one else would be convinced by it. I come up with hair-brained bs all the time. I like my bs, but I don’t expect anybody else to buy into it.

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          • makagutu says:

            My thoughts exactly. How would one write something like that, read it and then believe the rest of us will buy it too? That leaves me baffled all the time.

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  7. aguywithoutboxers says:

    Saints are ordained or sancfified or whatever they do in order to perpetuate the myth. Personally, I prefer Hercules. His story is more believable than than a collection of texts written centuries after the supposed events occurred.

    How as your weekend, my friend?

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  8. hitchens67 says:

    Reblogged this on hitchens67 Atheism WOW!! Campaign and commented:
    Richard Carrier-On the Historicity of Jesus. Very compelling evidence to refute the corporeal Christ!

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  9. That’s the spirit, ask first why we should believe. Ask second why that ‘evidence’ should be believed. In all cases do not abandon the first ground of ignorance.

    I am ignorant of your god, tell me more. Why should I believe? Why is that to be considered evidence? I’m sorry, could you please describe your god again?

    If atheism is not the default position, ignorance is.

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  10. themodernidiot says:

    During Augustus’ reign the historians were Roman. Jesus was just a blip on their radar over in Galilee. By the time he got their attention he was just another dumb criminal. Not too important to write about. Christianity was just a bunch of dirty
    Hippies running around. No reason for historians to even care. They care more about Pilate, but even he was just a provincial governor of a shithole. The real deal was back in Rome with Augustus. Maybe some day something will get dug up that at least proves he lived and tried to spread a better message, but even his fellow Jews thought the idea of his divinity ridiculous.

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    • makagutu says:

      Now here is a very interesting proposition one that would explain the silence from historians

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      • themodernidiot says:

        Just thinking out loud about it. It would be worth looking into.

        At the time of Tiberius and Jesus, Pompey was stirring up problems between the Pharisees and Sadducees, and raiding temples; the whole area to Rome was nothing more than a political tactic for advancing personal ambition: shut up all the rabble rousers in the East, win high office back home. And imagine if Pompey hadn’t bumbled up the conflict and handed victory to the liberal interpreting Pharisees: would we even have a Christ myth if the Sadducees had won?

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        • makagutu says:

          This is an interesting line to follow. Would we have had Christianity had Constantine not declared it the religion of the empire and won two battles that were definitive against the armies led by those who still believed in the Roman gods?

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          • themodernidiot says:

            Would we have had it if Paul had never been born?

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          • makagutu says:

            Maybe not. Maybe we would still be worshiping the several gods of the Roman Parthenon mixed with the surviving Greek deities and our local spirits. It is an interesting question

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          • themodernidiot says:

            I dunno. Judaism was pretty huge, and they were on the move.

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          • makagutu says:

            It appears since the destruction of the temple, they decided not to evangelize, maybe we wouldn’t have had the witch burnings and the inquisition? Just maybe?

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          • themodernidiot says:

            Ya think those were a bad idea? Yes, perhaps they were a bit much 😉

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  11. Sonel says:

    I’d much rather read books on Greek Mythology. Way more interesting. 😀

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  12. Ron says:

    Jesus? Who’s that? Never heard of him. Please tell me more? 🙂

    But seriously, why argue against the historical Jesus when you can just nail apologists to the wall with the magical one? For instance, here’s a question I’ve posed in various forms on numerous occasions:

    Premise: Jesus died and came back to life.

    That’s a testable claim. Introduce me to this resurrected man. Like Thomas, I too must see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side before I can believe.

    Can you arrange such a meeting?

    As you can see here, the response (now two weeks and counting) has been somewhat less than enthusiastic and overwhelming. I wonder why?

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    • Ruth says:

      Ahhh…nothing like the sound of crickets chirping, is there?

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    • makagutu says:

      And the guy can write long winded responses. Who reads all that. And as I see it, you forget about getting a response.

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      • Ron says:

        I don’t really expect a response. They know they cannot demonstrate their “close and personal friend” exists as anything other than voices inside their head.

        Plus, complete silence is preferable to lectures advising me to pray harder with more sincerity, or the veiled threats informing me that “you’ll find out soon enough after you die.”

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        • makagutu says:

          I like a guy who keep quiet knowing they have nothing to offer than some apologists who yaps on and on repeating the same bull that we have said no to.

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  13. […] Did Jesus exist (maasaiboys.wordpress.com) I don’t understand this inspiration business. Since the gospel authors do not claim to be witnesses for example Luke 1: 1-4 , how do they claim to know what Jesus thought in some occasions when he was in private? […]

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