Reader consoledreader asked yours truly to prepare a set of questions like the one in the previous post addressed to theists. We promised to do so and while we don’t think, as the author of the questions I have mentioned wrote, that these questions cannot be honestly answered, we believe it would be a great discussion to have.
The questions that I am going to post below are a joint effort by the followers of this blog. They are collated from a post we did a year ago.
I apologize in advance that most of the questions are not as brief as those meant to stump the atheists. This is because we want the questions to be as clear as possible.
1. Why was eating a forbidden fruit such a great sin? Why and how does a human sacrifice make up for this sin?
2. If the bible/koran/ torah is the word of god as you claim, why so many interpretations as there are believers? Was it impossible for your god to be clear?
3. If your god is spirit, incorporeal, was Jesus born with only his mother’s 23 chromosomes?
4. If there is a creator god that knows all, that he would have to kick Adam out of the garden, that he would have to destroy the Earth with flood, that he would have to sacrifice himself to himself to redeem anyone at all… why did he create the universe full of failures? Was he unable to stop himself?
5. if there is a creator god that knows all, and Adam & Eve screwed up, why not immediately send Jeebus to clear things up right then and not wait some thousands of years with many failed “covenants”, changing languages, “laws”, etc?
6. When we see today a man walking down the street with a long beard, saying we have to repent because God is watching/coming to Earth/will punish us if we don’t, etc, we call them loonies. Some 2,000 ago they called them prophets (or Jesus). If these guys were indeed prophets – as they claim – who is to say the ones standing outside the metro today aren’t prophets too? What’s the difference between them? And if a guy called Jesus appeared today and said the exact same things he said back then, would anyone believe him?
7. If you are Muslim, do you believe the heavenly language is Arabic?
8. Each of you claim your religious text is the right one, does it occur to you that not all of you can be right, so how do we tell who is right?
9. Why aren’t Catholics born to Muslim parents if we are born religious?
10. If your god is self sufficient, immutable and unchanging, what happened at the point it decided to create the universe or it became unchanging after that?
11. If free will is cherished by your god, that it created us with it so we can love him, wasn’t the free will of pharaoh important? Why harden his heart?
12. What god kills the children of slave girls to free his ‘chosen’ people?
And a bonus question.
Classical theists define god as possessing omni-capabilities, is there a thing that god could will and not actualize? How do you know this? Could your god have willed there to be no evil on earth but it didn’t materialize.
I would say: let the answers come!
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Am hopeful they will grace us with answers. When they challenge us, we take up the challenge
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Am fearing they will state we need to read their scripture. Probably because they have read it themselves.
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We will just ask for the relevant verses, read and come back to them with the qiestions
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Indeed.
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They’ve read SOME of their scripture perhaps. Doubtful how much. We shall see.
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Which means they have read those part selected by their priests.
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Yep. If that. They just believe what they’re told.
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Actually, I would want to address the point that priests/ministers deliberately steer their followers to ignore certain parts of the scriptures [such as the parts of the NT where “Jesus” states that one should hate his father, mother and brothers].
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Yes. Excellent point.
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One could only wonder how christians would react if they knew what the bible was really about.
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Yes. I’m reading it now. I haven’t in several years, and I’m utterly stunned at the brutality and ugliness of it. I knew it contained such things, but I’d forgotten just how many of them.
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A number of Christians who have read it have left, Ken Ham and William Craig seem to be making money off it.
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These questions are nonsense.
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Thank you for your deep insights
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I agree. It’s because the subject matter is nonsense.
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I think you and me will agree that to countless believers the subject matter is not nonsense.
Claudia dismisses the questions without offering any answers as he/she has always done on this blog when the matter is religious and doesn’t respond to follow up questions.
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Yes, yes. She didn’t offer much. The trouble I have with asking questions is that each theist is different, with a slightly different god in turn. So, a question that nails down a creationist is nothing to someone else who accepts metaphor.
I have dreams of assembling an online flowchart that covers every possible belief, and encourages you to think critically about it.
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But to join the fray,
How do you square the existence of numerous non-canonical gospels with the idea that the Bible is complete and perfect?
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Because they (christians) say so. Ain’t that good enough for you? I believe, there are, like, 30 or so gospels not in the bible because back in the day they were considered nasty. See? Look how easy it is to see the truth. All ya gotta do is have faith that I’m right, and you’re not. Fucking christian bullshit makes me VERY angry. Hulk smash puny christians!
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Bad Hulk!
Hulk should tenderize, not smash.
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RRRRRR!!!!
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I agree with you in principle. There are different theists and each with a different interpretation. But I think we can also get a general answer from them, it will not be reflective of the group but at least it will get the discussion going.
That flow chart would be an interesting thing to do.
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Pops some popcorn.
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Prepare for two, we may be in for quite a long wait
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I shall. I’ve also got a 6 pack chilling.
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Can we have a bonfire too
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“Can we have a bonfire too?”
Hell yeah!
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Can we metaphorically roast a few christians in it, too? Please?
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I’ll bring the extra metaphorical firewood, and some metaphorical pallets full of metaphorical nails. I grew up on the seaside and spent the better part of my life on the Gulf Coast. I am an expert at building bonfires that burn hot and long. 😀
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Like I said, you’re my hero.
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🙂
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hahaha
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Noel, I can see it now…same BS that was dished out to me when I was questioning as a believer. Here’s their go-to, cover all bases, scripture:
Isaiah 55:8-9King James Version (KJV)
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
**passes the popcorn**
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**passes the popcorn** As I climb to the tower top to listen to the theists ramble on above all understanding and human comprehension. I have a hemorrhoid. It tells me all christians, like it, are a pain in my ass. Book of Pontifications, Verse 18, lines 6 thru 8. Amen.
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Ah, you’re just jealous, Jeff. You want to be special like them — a below average IQ.
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I think we should remove the I before the Q. We just have Q.
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LOL
Do you know that the preachers and evangelists were scared chitless of me? Why?
Because I was asking all sorts of questions as I began to take my bible study seriously.
True story — in the last church I attended and had been a member of for several years (when I really delved into bible study) — instead of asking all these questions directly to my pastor, because I was always cut off — I wrote a 3 page, single-spaced typed letter. The letter also contained my findings. I made two copies. One for the pastor, and one for my good friend whom I had confided in about all the holes I had found in scripture. Besides my pastor, I shared this letter to only one other person, the friend I mentioned.
My friends husband, Gary, found the letter and duplicated the letter without my knowledge (or his wife’s knowledge) and shared it with others, and those letters got duplicated as well. It was a rather large congregation.
After being circulated, about a 1/3 of the members left. They had to call in the conference president to calm the other 2/3’s that were totally confused — and convince them that I was a very misguided “WoeMan”. It was never my intention for that letter to go viral in the church, as I had planned on slipping out as quietly as possible. To this day, the church hasn’t fully recovered and that happened in 2000. They even had to close down the church school because they couldn’t get enough students to attend. Before that happened, the church school had been thriving. 😈
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You’re my hero.
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Wow — thank you Jeff.
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Wow, just wow. Now that was something good for the community.
You are as one friend has said, a hero.
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Yeah. You’re right.
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**passes a cold one to Jeff**
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NOW we’re talkin’!
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can we all have a copy of this [sic]holy book?
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Yes. When it is completed, it will be required reading. You must read it, or burn. Hee Haw!
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Must there always be a catch with books unholy?
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Yes. Well, maybe. I don’t know. With mine, I wanna get rich, so that’s why I’m saying read it or burn.
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Will we share the profits? I could be a sales person.
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Certainly, Brother Noel.
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Basically shut up ask no questions! What a tyrant.
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Great idea here Mak. I’m waiting for the answers to come and convince me of how wrong I am not to see the light of faith. I’m waiting. I’m STILL waiting…….guess what? I’M STILL WAITING!!!
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You will not have to wait for long.
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I hope not, I gotta pee. Bad.
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Kinda makes me miss som, btw. He’d surely have a hate-filled non-relevant reply to this.
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He would write atheists believe something came from nothing and eff off. One wonders whether he reads posts that he responds to.
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I effin’ doubt it. Now, eff off! Joking. I’m only joking.
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This is a family blog 😀 and christians come here, effing will disturb their moral sensibilities.
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I love # 3
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we just want to know
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That might actually the most easiest one to explain. We know that certain animals such pythons and turkeys do engage in parthenogenis. Off spring created in such way, do contain normal amounts of chromosomes. In theory it could happen in humans, it would require that a human [proto-]ovum would remain its original amount of chromosomes. Further one mutation would be needed to fix his gender.
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Wait, one mutation?
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It could be a few more. Anyway, you need to suppress a few genes to make from a female genome a male one (the Y-chromosome does contains only one gen which does exactly this).
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My question would be was this the only case it could have happened? Have we seen another such event? Could we then classify him as an accident of nature? that is if he were real?
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Good questions, Noell. If it could happen once, I don’t see why it couldn’t happen a second time. And even if such event could happen or has happened, it says nothing about the existence of Jesus.
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This is an important point.
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Indeed, am only proposing a naturalistic explanation of virgin birth. Not stating it actually happened anytime.
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I tried, I really did, but my own negativity made me sick 🙂 ~~~
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You know I don’t want you sick my friend, especially now that am glad you are having a good time
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Tongue in check but I can be nasty when I need too and that post drew out the devil in me…hehe
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I am waiting to see you nasty, maybe I will run away 😀
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No you don’t.
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Great questions, my Nairobi brother. Now let’s see if any of them respond. I’m interested in their replies. 🙂
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we should not be too hopeful. The answers may take a long time to come
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Sadly, the problem begins when the Christians do turn up. It’s inevitable they will prattle on like Mike Anthony, Kathy, UnkleE, etc and to a lessor extent, Portal ( Ryan) & Hayden.
And maybe Prayson will also arrive and tell you that Jesus was just a man and atheism is an aberration and the One True God still loves you and if it isn’t in the Qu’ran you are making it up and Mohammed was not a pedophile.
And there will never be a consensus.
You will never get a straight answer from any individual.
Finkelstein & Devers are liberal extremists who have no evidence . Wolpe is a Jew and why should ”they” listen to him or any Jew?
Er….’s’cuse me…Jesus?
When they dont answer directly you will be referred to ”experts” or historical sources ( Josephus, Tacitus )
See? Witnesses! Bazinga!
They will tell you Catholicism is not really what Christianity is about …except the Catholics.
And then the post will be a thousand comments long and we’ve all got migraine trying to get them to answer ONE STRAIGHT QUESTION.
Sigh..
The religious…..god help us!
Life is too short.
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They make for good eatin’ though. I gotta give em their props for that.
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That is the sad thing with trying to find an answer from theists. We are most likely to be told it is faith, who are we to question god and or it is a metaphor. There is no possible discussion that can proceed from there.
As for som, unless he uses a different name, he will not be soiling this blog. I don’t want to have to be washing my hands every time I interact with him and the same is for his buddy Mike
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Excellent!.
But I feel sure the very best replies will be from deconvertees.
We’ll wait and see?
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We have a response from consoledreader in the next post but am sure most Christians will not agree with him.
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I have read it, Mak, seems a bit wishy washy to me and leaves too much unanswered – or answered in a way so’s not to really answer at all.
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That I think is the problem with asking the religious for an explanation and especially on things taken on faith. It is as they say trying to find a black cat in a dark room. You get nowhere or at worst end up with claw marks if there is a cat
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Maybe narrow the questions down?
ie. Please explain how Jesus is the God.
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I think I should just have asked that one question and waited for the dance.
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How about how do you know Jesus is god and all other gods are not real. The emphasis here is on how do YOU KNOW this. Having faith is not an answer. The 9/11 terrorists showed me faith like I’ve never seen it before. Did that make it right? Was their “faith” wrong? Does it have to be “christian” faith to be real then? And again, how does one KNOW this?
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How do you know should accompany every response they give.
Like in the response we have from consoledreader, how does he know that the people who wrote this work did not think they represented the world as they saw it and not just a myth?
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He can’t know that. His is the writing of an apologist trying to say an apple is really an orange even though it isn’t. Apologists spend their lives thinking squares really do fit in round holes. Schizophrenia is the medical word for it.
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words words, they said they don’t mean a thing, don’t yeah remember? No labels. An orange is actually an apple
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I’m confused. I need my meds.
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try beer
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All i had was red wine, but it’s working. Cheers, mate!
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Did someone say red wine? Now we’re talking.
Happy Friday to my good friends.
Cheers. 🍸
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And cheers to you, my good friend.
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🙂
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Have a pleasant weekend good friend
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I responded to the questions.
I tried to send them to you via the contact form, but it condensed all the paragraphs and separate questions into one giant paragraph. Do you have an email address you want to me to send it to or would you like me to just post the response here in the thread?
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I sent you mail last evening unless it went to junk. And thanks for taking the time to respond. I have put it up as a new post.
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[…] Over at his blog (https://maasaiboys.wordpress.com/) makaguto has posted some questions for theists(https://maasaiboys.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/questions-for-theists/). […]
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I discussed these questions with my Chrsitian wife. Answers over on my blog.
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Just read your answers. Will respond well later. I like most of them. Where you suggest I improve the questions, that will be done.
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