IS atheism rational?


Do people still ask this question? I thought every rational and reasonable person would have come to this very conclusion on their own without my help even if they continued to talk loudly to themselves in the hope their plans would turn out differently.

It seems I have been ambitious, too ambitious. We have this author  who thinks they have done the world a favour by exposing the irrationality of atheism. Their post starts by a strawman and from there any conclusion they arrive at is true. They tell us

Many people believe that atheism is based on reason and science, while religion is based on emotion and faith. But in this video, I show that atheism is not rational, is not based on science, and in fact is just another religious belief.

As am wont to say, one has to be really daft to claim with a brave face in public that atheism is a religious belief. This type of person can only be thick as a stone. Atheism has nothing to do with science. You can know zilch about science and be an atheist. Atheism is a response to whether one believes deities exist. It is not whether one knows the Newton’s Laws of motion.

The atheist is under no obligation to give any reason for the non-existence of god. All the atheist need to do is ask the theist to present the evidence for his claim. There is no need to shift the burden of proof here.

I don’t know about you, but I didn’t know we had dogma. The good book of atheism has the following dogmas that we heathens must recite every morning.

1. There is no God.
2. There is no objective truth.
3. There is no ground for reason.
4. There are no absolute morals.
5. There is no ultimate value.
6. There is no ultimate meaning.
7. There is no eternal hope.

 

I love this list. And like the god claim, the theist has the burden of showing that the positive claim is true. I am patient and will wait for the proofs. While we are on it, I will remind this theist and many others who visit us that atheism is a lack of belief in gods.  We have covered morals in several posts. Jesus asked what is truth did not answer. There is nothing in the definition of atheism that got to do with meaning, value, morality, truth and so on.

The OP gives the following as the standard arguments by atheists and I will respond to each on its turn.

1. The existence of God is incompatible with the existence of evil.

This is a strawman. The argument states that the presence of evil is inconsistent with the existence of an all loving and all-powerful god. It leaves room for a god that is malevolent and not powerful.

2. God is a projection of man’s imagination.

I will wait for the theist to show this is not the case.

3. Since God cannot be scientifically demonstrated, he cannot exist.

Can the theist demonstrate in some other way that god exists. We are open to suggestions and demonstrations.

4. People believe in God because they are culturally conditioned to do so.

This should be obvious even to an idiot!

5. The idea of God is nonsensical, like the idea of a square circle.

Can the OP give us a coherent definition of god.

6. If God made the world, who made God?

For stupidity, this theist would receive the first three trophies! This argument is a rewriting of the cosmological argument which attempts to leave god out of the cause effect continuum. The theist tells everything has a cause except his god without giving us a good reason this is so.

7. Since there is no evidence of God’s existence, he does not exist.

Please god help us here. What are you and where are you?

It is true that

The arguments of atheism do not stand up to rational analysis

when the arguments you have listed are a strawman. They would not stand up. The theist has made a claim there is a god. I ask the theist where is the evidence. He presents arguments- word plays- as evidence, I show that these are inadequate, why cry foul? Why can’t the theist ask his god to settle the matter by presenting himself or itself.

To appeal to arguments of the type

No-one, however, can prove that God does not exist, because that would require having all possible knowledge. The atheist would need to have infinite knowledge throughout all time, and be everywhere at the same time, to be absolutely sure of everything. In reality, the atheist would need to be God in order to prove that there is no God!

is to raise the stakes to such a level that allow the theist to claim that his god is hiding under the stone that you haven’t checked. His god will always be hiding somewhere. This claim although looking valid doesn’t help us in our quest for knowledge. It is a weak defense. The person employing it can’t defend his position as rational.

The claim that

Atheism is not rational because it is impossible to prove that God does not exist

attempts to go round the problem unsuccessfully. The onus is on the theist to tell us what god is and if god is. Trying to shift the burden of proof will not take us anywhere.

If it is true that

The principle arguments put forward by atheists to disprove the existence of God are
invariably based on unproven assumptions and unreasonable tests

it can only be said all the arguments so far advanced by theists have been defective. Atheists offer rebuttals to the arguments. I don’t need to come up with any argument. The ones offered by theists are just as good to show the impossibility of god- whatever you define it to mean.

And we would not deny

No matter what criteria the atheists employ, there will always remain the possibility that God exists outside of their knowledge and beyond the confines of their naturalistic view of the world

our only question to the theist would be how does he know? Does the theist have some secret knowledge the atheist lacks? Is it also not true based on the argument above that the theist could be wrong on all he thinks he knows about god? Is the theist open to this possibility?

The OP concludes

Atheism not only fails to prove its case, it also fails to disprove the evidence for the existence of God. In reality, there is abundant evidence to support the view that the cosmos was created by an intelligent, purposeful and supernatural being. It is not enough for atheists to dismiss this evidence out of hand simply because, by their own definition, there is nothing to investigate. Saying that God does not exist, does not make it so.
It is more reasonable to believe in God, because the existence of this life is impossible to
understand without God.

To which we call bull! The existence of god is a hypothesis in need of proof. The theist has his work properly outlined for him/ her. The theist claiming a god exists has first to tell us what god is, and whether god is. Assertions and arguments will not hold. To claim arguments can be used to demonstrate a god exists is to define god into existence and anything can be argued to be in this way. The claim that the universe was created by an intelligent being is not an argument for theism. If anything, this argument could only be used by deists. It is a leap of faith to claim that the author of the universe was intelligent, purposeful and supernatural is not supported by any evidence. It is an assertion in need of proof. The universe could as well be the result of a malevolent creatures. Nothing stops it being the work of different creators. One creating trees, another water, another elephants and another idiots. Who knows, there could be a god who multiplies the number of idiots and another who creates genius one after every so long? Saying that god exists does not make it so. It is more reasonable to believe the universe is atheistic, that it is indifferent to whether you have an orgasm or not, that it doesn’t give a rat whether you have cancer or not. All advancements we have made in science have not had god in their explanations. The word god has no explanatory power. To understand the world around us, we must ditch the god belief. We then begin to look at the world as is.

 

Advertisements

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

44 thoughts on “IS atheism rational?

  1. Mordanicus says:

    Why don’t theists make any progress in their arguments? Or don’t they read rebuttals of their arguments?

    Like

  2. Of course, the other title for your post could have been, ‘Is religion rational?’

    (Or logical, or tolerant, or even credible).

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Folks like the guy you quote here kinda tick me off to the extreme. Atheism is not a superstitious, faith-based belief that gods do not exist. It is a disbelief in gods because no evidence exists that they do. They might exist. It very well might be Thor who makes it thunder when it rains, but in order for me to accept that, evidence must be shown to me that it’s true. Otherwise, why would I believe it? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence to be believed. Anything MIGHT be possible. Ive no idea about everything that MIGHT be. But if a person asserts that something exists, absolutely exists, then the burden of proving it exists is on them. I’m an atheist because I do not see any evidence for gods existing, least of all the christian god. I do, however, see plenty of evidence for idiots existing. You have several quotes from one in your post.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. john zande says:

    I wonder if the apologist ever consciously recognise that they are creating strawmen to slaughter? WLC, for example, is supposedly intelligent (although i strongly disagree) yet performs this trick all the time. Are they aware, or is it that the delusion is truly clouding their thinking?

    Like

  5. keithnoback says:

    Properly understood, Atheism is not a position which holds that theistic arguments ultimately fail. It is a position which holds that theistic arguments can’t get started. Where is the requisite epistemology of the supernatural to be found? How are we to represent or even refer to – umm, what?
    A=A does not make truth in itself. One must, at some point, account for the contents of A.

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      I agree with you completely. This discussion can’t take off. Every time a theist mentions god, one must ask for clarification- what do you mean. I am not sure any theist has told us coherently what god is to enable the conversation move forward.

      Like

  6. ladysighs says:

    I think this is one of your better ones. 🙂 But they are all good.
    I did visit the source for your post. Looking at random posts, I saw no comments and very few likes for him. And I didn’t give him any. lol
    How do you find these people?

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      I find it curious that some of them have many followers but they act like the gods believed in. They show no evidence of their presence.

      I just meet with them as I do my blog visits.

      Thanks for the compliments

      Like

  7. shelldigger says:

    What a freaking idiot. Note to theists, all of your baseless assertions are not A: proof of a god, or B: proof that atheism is a religion, or C: Proof of anything besides your insidious inability to understand reality.

    Applying all sorts of pretzel logic to justify your magical fairies, and all powerful gods, and whatever other unseen, unprovable, non fucking existant fantasies you may have, only represents your own lack of understanding. As well as proof of your refusal to use the application of logic to the scientific evidence that supports reality. Your problem is you live in a fantasy world and expect the rest of us to simply ignore that, and let you go around claiming you know something you don’t.

    Morons, the lot of them.

    Like

  8. aguywithoutboxers says:

    Excellent published argument, my Nairobi brother. Just as you wrote in your rebuttal, there are no “absolute” dogma that bounds all atheists to one standard belief. We are not like the theists with one mythical creed. We are all merely seekers of truth. Great job, my friend! 🙂

    Like

  9. Sonel says:

    These people should rather ask themselves if they are rational?

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      Am not sure they have the courage to ask themselves that question. You hardly see a theist saying maybe they could be wrong

      Liked by 1 person

      • shelldigger says:

        …on any level. Even the mundane daily shit we have to wade through. They will rarely admit any error no matter how small. Which directly corellates to how small minded they really are. If you do not have or are afraid to use honest inquiry to your own actions or beliefs, you know very little about yourself and have sheltered your mind from many obvious truths. Especially to the possibility of being wrong occaisionally.

        There are plenty of cults that have exactly those kinds of expectations though and will welcome you with open arms. Be prepared for plenty of reinforcement of that kind of thought. “We love you.” “Join us.” “Question nothing we tell you.” “This cult is the right cult and we are better than all of the other cults.” “Oh, there is a voluntary fee to participate.” “There may be at some point the necessity to murder your neighbors.” “We love you.” “Question nothing we tell you.”

        Like

        • makagutu says:

          Religion is deeply held, to question its truths is not an easy task for most. To some, the thought of questioning the truth of their religion or other held beliefs is the greatest conceivable evil

          Like

  10. Every argument for the existence of a god has successfully been dismantled by a 10 year old with questions at some point in time. All the religions, all the studying, all the praying… none of it stands up to the questions from a 10 year old. No religion has ever been able to buttress its beliefs against honest questions that even a 10 year old can formulate.

    “where did god come from?” being one of the simpler questions that a 10 year old will ask. WLC has no answer nor does any religion.

    Think about it. No religion has any defense against simple questions other than to stifle the questions, demonize the questioners, and when possible kill them.

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      All the arguments for god attempt to define god into existence. They either have hidden assumptions or have god somewhere as part of the argument. People like WLC have made a career out of defending the nebulous

      Like

  11. limey says:

    I couldn’t get past the “you can’t prove god doesn’t exist, therefore he does” logic(!). I think the rest of the verbage got lost in the resulting limey head pop.

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      I think it should be pointed out to theists that they should abandon philosophy when they argue for their religion. Philosophy cannot help religion. Philosophy cannot rescue religion from absurdity and I doubt anyone who believes in a god prays to a god they believe is immutable.

      Like

  12. so, by the argument by the book, it is also irrational for those theists who disbelieve in all gods but their own. why, they should be polytheists if they want to supposedly be “rational”.

    Like

We sure would love to hear your comments, compliments and thoughts.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s