The devil get’s a bad rap in the bible. A number of people have in the past tried to repair his CV and present it in a way that so resembles the truth as is humanly possible especially given the spurious nature of the writings.
I will just mention a few incidences where the devil/ Satan should really have been praised instead of demonized.
In Genesis, the serpent/ Stan tells the first family a truth, that they will not die for eating the fruit. The curious thing about the admonition they would die is that the couple had no idea what to die meant.
Several instances in the new testament, the devil/ Satan declares that Jesus is the messiah when he, Jesus, doesn’t want this known.
Am tired and will stop here.
There should be a day for the devil ๐
Random thoughts 
One spirit encourages learning and knowledge, the other actively works against its acquisition. Which is the tyrant?
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In religious speak, the spirit that makes you doubt or question the legitimacy of god’s command is the personification of tyranny
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War is Peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
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Amen. Give this guy a tax-exempt letter!!!!!
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1984 was and is a great read
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If you look at them from another angle, one story encourages trust and obedience in righteousness rather than hustlers, and the other discourages idolization and celebrity.
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I don’t see that. I see the character who craves his playthings remain ignorant, while, mind you, they know there is “knowledge” being denied to them, which is a horrible thing to do, while the other character encourages the acquisition of that knowledge. Why give a toy a brain if its not allowed to program it?
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I know that’s what you see, and that’s just fine. I’m asking if you can see another way.
I’ll just throw this down, and anyone can pick it up if hued like.
If we could set aside our microscopes if accuracy, and try to just see how the writers were trying to explain the benefits of not trying to know everything, to warn us against hubris, much like writers have throughout time, perhaps we could dispel some popular confusion.
The serpent was cautious, but it was not evil. It was a symbol for temptation, a warning against defiance simply for the sake of that hubris.
The story if Eden is also an explanation of mortality and the harshness of life ( albeit a fantastical one, as most tales are). When God “said” we’d die, it wasn’t instantaneous death; it means we will use our knowledge to forever secure our mortality, for ourselves and against each other.
Sometimes the best way to live is to just let things be. Our insistence on manipulating everything to appease our desires is our downfall. If we can resist that, and just be a part of life, we will live longer and be happier.
And then there’s our tendency to deny culpability. Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the snake, not each his own self; which is another lesson we teach to this day, to take responsibility for our own mistakes.
Humans were given superior brains, but we’re still total dumbasses , mostly because of our self-absorption. We center ourselves in our universe, but can never reconcile that fantasy. So we act out, badly.
It’s not as much a story about God as much as it is a lesson about man’s need to not to be arrogant little bastards.
The first ones in many creation stories were created with plenty of knowledge. They weren’t toys without brains. They were beasts like the other beasts, self-aware to function, but not so self-concerned as to destroy themselves. Then they defy their better judgment (god), and turn their focus selfward, and proceed to completely blow it for everyone else.
The Adam/Eve story is followed with another great tale about Cain and Abel, which continues in that same vein. Beware of Jealousy, which is also a result of focusing on one’s self and giving in to desire.
Genesis is kind of an intro for the instruction manual/rule book the writers intended to compile. The great irony is that they ultimately failed to heed those lessons, produced a book for political purposes, and blew it for everyone else. Art imitates life.
The caveat for the Bible is that putting it against a yardstick of literalism is ineffective at best. You have to read it with the mind of a scientist, the heart of a poet, and the wonder of a child.
The flaw with theism and atheism that I keep finding is that neither camp does that. They pick and choose weapons from it rather than just mediate over its accomplishment together. I’m not accusing you of doing this, of course, just illustrating what I see most often from my vantage point here in No Man’s Land.
If we read the Bible for its inconsistencies, that’s all we’ll ever find. When we read it for its gifts (history, lessons, insight, politics, poetry, etcetera), we’ll find those wonderful gems, plus wisdom for ourselves.
And I agree that the interpreters have given Satan a bad wrap, Noel. He was misunderstood and Jesus didn’t try hard enough. ๐
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Oh dear, I agree with you to a point that bible exegesis can be useful, but this is true of many books written by men for men or do I say written by women for the race. The problem as I see it is that the bible is put in a hallowed place and all of us are expected to treat it as such and for this reason believers keep trying to use it to influence law and public conduct where it is intended for private belief.
If the story of Eden is to be about our immortality, one must agree that it is one of the poorly told stories ever. The god is heard to say let us send him away before he eats of the tree of life. Unless one intends to make a case of special pleading, there is no denying that man was always mortal and the bible author either didn’t know it or wanted an excuse to explain why man suffers.
It is man that says they have a superior brain. It has left much to be desired in its wake and the jury is still out on this.
The story of Cain and Abel can as well be about the caprice of the gods and not jealousy of man. The god in the story without reason shows preference for one and not the other. Who would expect this of a god however malicious? If anything can be drawn from the Cain/ Abel story is to not trust the gods.
Genesis is a myth of how the Hebrew people saw themselves in the world. The world would be better if it remained as such, a Hebrew story.
There is no reason to treat the bible with kid gloves. I agree with you it has some great stories. I especially like Ecclesiastes and Job among others.
When we reading the bible, let us read it as we would read any literature book and each person makes their own interpretations. Let it not be the standard for law or for science it is neither of the above.
Jesus couldn’t help it. If he lived, he was born in a culture that demonised god’s alter ego.
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Never mind
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I can understand that, but its too openly fascist to be considered a “good” story. It’s actually quite ghastly, and peppered with all sorts of logical and moral flaws.
The Judean Yahwehist priests (from 8th and 7th Century BCE Judah), of course, plagiarised the story from the far, far older Zoroastrians who did a much better job. The 3rd Century Christians who knitted together their religion made a terrible blunder keeping that creation myth. They had a great opportunity to pen a new one, and probably should have.
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Yes they did retell old tales, but so do all writers. I’m not saying it doesn’t have a horrible past and that compilers had political motives, but it’s good shit to play with, and worth a different perspective.
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I agree John
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Blind obedience, ignorance and bigotry is what one side offers. The other side offers light and knowledge
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It isn’t really like that at all though
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I must let you know when my friend republishes his short story about the devil. I think he’s going to do it as a freebie, and it is an easy read, should fit right into this theme.
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I will be looking forward to reading the short story
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A day for the devil, eh? OK. How about Anti-Christmas? We can celebrate it on June 25th, and on that day all manner of learning, knowledge seeking, and question asking will be valued, encouraged, and celebrated. In time, hopefully, Anti-Christmas day will become infectious and spread to every day of the year causing the idea of christianity, as a fount of absolute knowledge, to become buried in time forever.
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There is already a war on Christmas, maybe we should try Easter especially given that the resurrection was to free us from original sin whatever that maybe
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Anti-Easter? Naw Not as good. That’s why I’m calling for Anti-Christmas to be on June 25th. We can still have Christmas on 12/25 and spend billions on sh*t presents no one really needs. Then, on June 25th, we have another holiday celebrating how silly the mind-numbing dogmas of christianity really are. In time, Xmas will disappear into time without any war on it at all. Wait. I was just dreaming that. In reality, it’ll never happen. I’ll keep asking the Devil for enlightenment until the correct idea is to me. Amen.
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That looks more like it. June 25th as anti- Christmas day. We ban presents that no one needs on this day
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Amen.
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Well, I wouldn’t say no to a few birthday presents…
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For your case, birthday presents are allowed.
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Well, I wouldn’t say no to a few birthday presents…
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That’s the spirit of anti-Christmas at work already in you! Amen and hallelujah, sister!
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Praise be. I award you three Hail Marys to be indulged in at the time of your choice.
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Hahaha
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Anti-Christmas: a day of strictly functional gifts–“I got you a knife sharpener”–and hard truths–“you’re getting fat and I worry about your heart and liver “.
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Now such gifts are allowed. Those are very useful
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And very funny. Funny is always good.
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A fine choice of day as it is my birthday so I fully authorise that.
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Awesome! That makes three for and none against the motion. This is a great start. Happy very belated b-day btw. ๐
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Thank you. But there’ll be no excuse for forgetting it in future!
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June 25th, 2015 will not only be your birthday, it’ll be the celebration of the first ever Anti-Christmas day!
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The Devil seems to be the antithesis to life (or in this case God or “Life” or a “savior”), this is probably why Spinoza was dreaded in his time because he ceases to anthropomorphize God:
“Spinoza’s God does not have free will (1p32c1), he does not have purposes or intentions (1apendix), and Spinoza insists that โneither intellect nor will pertain to the nature of Godโ (1p17s1). Moreover, while we may love God, we need to remember that God is really not the kind of being who could ever love us back. โHe who loves God cannot strive that God should love him in return,โ says Spinoza”-Wiki
This was probably the greatest insult for most religious people, to think that perhaps God was “independent” from us must have been a calamity. But the Devil, even if feared and dreaded, is highly anthropomorphized also. So Wolves are the devil, crows are the devil, not to mention ravens and serpents, and some highly religious people believe “human anger” is the devil, and finally, “bad weather”. “Bad weather” is the “Apocalypse” and will wipe us all! hehe
But all along it’s probably death and sickness, but even dying people don’t see it as such. So probably the tyrant is the EGO.
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Spinoza’s views explain why he was excommunicated or whatever Jews do to those they consider apostates.
For the believer anything bad can be apportioned to the devil.
The ego could be the problem and I think that could explain why the Eastern religions speak of self as a delusion
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Well said. BUT, the real true devil just happens to be personified in the person of Governor Rick Perry of Texas. That was scientifically proven via blood test and genetic testing about a week ago. Perry is the devil, and Sarah Palin, believe it or not, is an igneous rock. Odd that a person could be a stone, but science has proven it. Sarah Palin is dumb as rock cause on the molecular level, she truly is one.
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I thought that should be dick Cheney? Did Rick Perry overtake him in dickhood to occupy the top position?
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No. But he is trying to REALLY REALLY hard.
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Aha! I see. Is he still the top Republican party contender for the next presidential elections?
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He’ll run for sure. His devil-spawned ego wouldn’t let him do otherwise.
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Palin wants to run Alaska and grant hunting permits to NRA’s youth; she’s concerned about them being on the right path.
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Her formula is to give birth as many times as a woman’s womb can bear it, that way you’ll have the best army to fight the Devil.
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Very good thinking on her part. Now, if only there were a way for her babies to be born already armed with fully loaded automatic devil-killing rifles, she’d be set.
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She might send them off to perform exorcism, thatโs the more accurate and scientific method, that way sheโll remain law-abiding.
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Excellent point. Wouldn’t want to fight the Devil illegally. That’d be anti-American. ๐
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Exorcism is an act of love after all, you not only cast the Devil away, but you โrecuperate” your loved ones who will otherwise die (and be lost in hell) if you donโt do something…
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Yes indeed. I will definitely have to remember that should anyone I love become possessed by the Devil and need an exorcism. As of today, I’m the only one I know in my immediate circle who’s possessed by the Devil, but I rather like it, and have asked my friends not to perform an exorcism on me. They’ve agreed to that. Nice to have such good friends, eh?
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I thought you could exorcise yourself mate?
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Not needed. I LOVE having the Devil in me. Fun.
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It must be your Demon giving you all the hilarious stories. Socrates of old apportioned all the responsibility of his wisdom to his demon
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Then I’m in good company. Though I don’t want to have to drink hemlock. I hear that’s a very painful death. Beer. I’ll stick to beer.
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Beer death is good. It is slow and you are always in good company ๐
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Amen. Are you sure I’m not a Matrix locked inside Plato’s cave and surround by a nebulous fog created by a blow-hard wanna be philosopher? I know this has nothing to do with this post, but I thought I’d mention it cause I’m practicing to be a tube of methane like that douche-bag over on John’s blog. Reading his comments literally burns out my retinas. Time. the dude has oodles of it. He needs to let go of it so there’ll be some left for the rest of us.
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That dude is so annoying. He purports to know me more than I know myself. Where John gets his type I don’t know.
A tube of methane would work just as good as that fellow or maybe even better
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“That dude is so annoying. He purports to know me more than I know myself.”
Same as with couple of fundies, now only one remains (the other was banned), on Nate’s blog. Yes, these hyper-fundies have holy psychic powers and know all about you and your motives. I just experienced that BS, personally, on Nate’s blog. In the DMS, believing you have holy psychic powers is known as sever mental illness. Need I say more.
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Oh dear, you should read the whacko on John’s blog.
Nate and John seem to attract the craziest sort of fundies.
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Oh, I have been keeping up with the convo. He’s certifiable.
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I may just become mental if I continue the conversation.
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It’s almost noon here. Gotta beer to spare? What a week, lol.
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We could have whiskey together. We could add bbq to the deal and it shall be a perfect way to end the week
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Oh my, you speak my language. ๐
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That is how it must be.
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Cheers my good friend.
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Cheers! Now that is the language
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We’ll invite the Devil, himself. God can eat his heart out. Jeff can zap his ass with a lightening bolt — give him a taste of his own “medicine”. Time to paarty. ๐
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It’s party time and the gods can go to hell. Only the devil is invited.
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He’s inside me, so he’ll definitely be there. ๐
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I forgot that part
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End the week? Hell, brother, it’s a perfect way to start a morning!
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He’s a vat of leaking methane is what he is.
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Did Nate ban Kathy? Good for him if he did. Fundies need a strict dialog of Haldol. Really. They do. anti-psychotics for the psychotic mind reading fundies. Amen.
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No, Nate didn’t ban Kathy. He did ban Mike. Kathy, however, has holy psychic powers and knows everyone’s motives and how and why her god did what he did in our lives.
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At the beginning one would have been forgiven for thinking Kate wanted to learn anything. I am still shocked to date.
Mike was a pompous ass
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He must have been quite awful as, in my very humble opinion, Nate allows far to much angry, meaningless, insulting banter to go on on his blog. There’s no benefit to it. It isn’t funny. It isn’t enlightening, and it isn’t productive. It is the banter of the mentally challenged given a forum to rant, insult, and be cruel. Just my opinion, but that type of venomous rambling isn’t even worth mining for satire material. It’s just sick.
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Jeff, psychopaths, sociopaths and narcissists seek out personality types like Nate. I used to be a lot like him. I don’t take chit from anyone now. Live and learn.
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Hallelujah and pass the ammunition!
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Tomb Raider! Awesome. We could rename her, Fundie Buster and make her our first patron Saint. ๐
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Hahaha — yes!
Who ya gonna call — FUNDIE BUSTER. ๐
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Some of us are impatient. Let me called a censor but I will not allow useless banter on my site just so I look like I love creationists and other whackos
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Good call. I actually despise such people and find more use in hitting my head on anvils than in arguing with them. 1000’s of comments later, and Nate is nowhere near to any of them seeing anything but what they wish. Useless waste of comment space.
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Massive waste of comment space.
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Nate, I think, is a glutton for punishment. How would one allow himself to suffer through thousands of comments that are mainly insults and add nothing to the available body of knowledge
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I agree. Stuff like that is a completely wasted, negative endeavor.
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He was, indeed. Kathy, I suspect, is a troll like Mike. I told her so, too.
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People like her vote. They help determine the future of our world. That is frightening.
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Exactly right, Jeff, which is the main reason why I spend much of my spare time in discourse with this people who have deactivated neural circuity to areas of the brain associated with critical thinking.
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Yes indeed. My guess is that guy is a college student or just out of college. he doesn’t seem to realize nothing about what he says is original, profound, or remotely meaningful or useful.
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It is only with reflection that a person can realize this. I don’t think he ever reads his comments. Must be busy looking for where to trap me
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Young, foolish guy. That’s my guess. and he has A LOT of free time on his hands. Far too much to do any good.
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You would think he would ask. He has now decided am an agnostic not atheist and he keeps referring me to a dictionary like I don’t know what the words mean.
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He is one ignorant SOB. And man, does he ever have a lot of free time. must take his arrogant ass an hour to write each response.
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For the time being, I will let him have fun with John
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I got in a shot or two. Now I’m done. Amen.
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Oh mine, Iโve had such a good laugh, thanks!โค๏ธ
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No trouble. No trouble a’tall.
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That is the simple reason it will take a long time for atheists to outnumber believers.
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“There should be a day for the devil”
We sorta, kinda have a day for the devil here in the U.S. October 31 — Halloween. NPR writes:
The Christian devil was clearly the scapegoat of Yahweh’s fuck-up.
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The Christian devil is YHWH’s alter ego.
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Hurray, God!!!! Way to go big guy! You really showed that ole Devil who’s boss. You are one mean, lean murdering son of a bitch!
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Can’t argue with that graph!
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And Satan gets a bad rap!
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Excellent thought and responses. One questions, isn’t the devil an apparition created by a mythical deity and his/her followers? Have a great remainder of the weekend, buddy! ๐
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The devil is created to cover for god’s fuck ups
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Your Greatness, you indeed ARE all-knowing! ๐
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Am surprised you took so long to realize this ๐
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The lightening bolt just struck me! LOL! As always, my Nairobi brother, much love and many naked hugs! ๐
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Same same here and have a pleasant day and productive week ahead
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“Sympathy for the Devil” – The Rolling Stones: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sympathy+for+the+devil+rolling+stones&FORM=VIRE13#view=detail&mid=A0C986853B72B0660B94A0C986853B72B0660B94
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Enjoyed all the funny comments. (Must have presents!)
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For you, my dear, there will be presents.
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Beer and bbq are the presents with just a dash of grain alcohol to start us out on anti-Christmas day.
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