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Quote: On Jesus


We have said several times on this blog that the Jesus of the gospels did not exist. The Jesus born of a virgin, performed miracles, died on the cross and went to the clouds and remained there, that I will need evidence. If there is a historical Jesus, it is not the Jesus Hubris Christ of the bible and am willing to listen to anyone who has information that would lead to the identification of this other Jesus. That said, I have here a quote from The Quest of the historical Jesus by Albert Schweitzer, which the author tells us is a conclusion one would arrive at when they read the life of Jesus by Bruno Bauer

The formation of the church and the arising of the idea that the Jesus of the Gospels is the messiah are not two different things, they are one and the same thing, they coincide and synchronize; but the idea was only the imaginative conception of the church, the first movement of its life, the religious expression of its experience.

The question which has so much exercised the minds of men-whether Jesus was the historic Christ- is answered in the sense that everything that the historical Christ is, everything that is said of him, everything that is known of him, belongs to the world of imagination, that is, of the imagination of the Christian community, and therefore has nothing to do with any man who belongs to the real world.

The historicists who visit this blog would do us some justice if they could respond to the above claim by leading us to any credible evidence for the historical Jesus. Am sure we would all appreciate.

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

92 thoughts on “Quote: On Jesus”

  1. Tish Farrell says:
    November 17, 2014 at 13:15

    Here’s a good read, Noel, if you haven’t found it already -The Good Man Jesus, the Scoundrel Christ by Philip Pullman. I know you read his Dark Materials. http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/apr/04/scoundrel-christ-pullman-review
    And in like vein while I’m here, subversive children’s writer Geraldine McCaughrean’s Not the End of the World
    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2004/dec/18/booksforchildrenandteenagers.featuresreviews

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  2. aguywithoutboxers says:
    November 17, 2014 at 13:32

    Dr. Schweitzer’s Quest of the Historical Jesus is a great read and critical analysis. I doubt that anyone will ever come forward and offer you any concrete evidence that Jesus lived. Such proof doesn’t exist because he didn’t. If there were any tangible proof, the believers would have enshrined it in gold and charged enormous fees for people to come and view it. Be safe, my friend! 🙂

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  3. john zande says:
    November 17, 2014 at 14:29

    I’m still of the opinion that Jesus was probably an amalgam product; a metafiction character invented by crisis cultists to impart their doctrinal messages.

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  4. kcchief1 says:
    November 17, 2014 at 15:30

    makagutu , the times I have referenced Dr Schweitzer’s , “The Quest of the historical Jesus ” , I get the same response from most Christians, “Schweitzer wrote this book 100 years ago…..we know so much more now”

    To which I respond, “On really? Show me this new evidence !” Crikets ……………………………………………..

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    • makagutu says:
      November 17, 2014 at 15:33

      I thought about you actually because I think somewhere you mentioned the book but couldn’t recall the post.

      I will wait for the new evidence the believers have amassed. Maybe you asked them very difficult questions.

      One of the things I found interesting is that the idea that Mark was the first gospel is not as recent as I thought! I am loving this book. People like Reimarus and Bruno Bauer should have monuments to their names

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  5. ladysighs says:
    November 17, 2014 at 16:18

    To me this is the key part: “am willing to listen to anyone who has information that would lead to the identification of this other Jesus.”
    But there’s nothing to listen to. 😦

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  6. inspiredbythedivine1 says:
    November 17, 2014 at 16:27

    Another good post, Mak. Doubt you’ll get that evidence you’re asking for. The Gospel of Thomas is an interesting read. I don’t “doubt” that you’ll enjoy it. Get it? I don’t DOUBT that you’ll enjoy it! And I’ve not yet gotten my Nobel Prize why???

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  7. N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ says:
    November 17, 2014 at 17:17

    But Noel — physical evidence is not necessary for believers. Faith is. Faith is the evidence of things not seen — don’t you get it? When you have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you just “know”. 😉

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  8. myatheistlife says:
    November 18, 2014 at 04:56

    Well, evidence is never going to happen. He ascended to heaven, no trace left. Just like the invisible pink unicorn, no traces. In two decades the Chinese government was able to erase any meaningful memory of ‘tank man’ from the Chinese culture. To create a man in 3 decades seems like child’s play given that there were no cameras, Internet, records and such. Despite all these things ‘tank man’ was erased from Chinese culture in just 20 years. Just saying!

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    • makagutu says:
      November 19, 2014 at 07:40

      That was the final act on the drama, his disappearing on the clouds and remaining there. We will never what means of transport he used and how he keeps it running this many years.
      So far no christian has come to offer evidence, maybe they consider me a lost cause

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      • myatheistlife says:
        November 19, 2014 at 08:53

        No, they have other arguments to worry about. Of course none of them are any good either but they are easier to think about than this one, besides, god can do anything… well, except forgive, move the canaanites by willing them to go, heal amputees, incarcerate the satan, overcome evil without the help of humans, use his omniscience to device a plan for humanity that does not include eternal torture … oh never mind, you know what I mean

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  9. Robert A. Vella says:
    November 18, 2014 at 09:03

    The Romans kept meticulous records. They certainly would’ve kept track of anyone suspected of inciting local populations. If their historical records never mentioned a “Jesus of Nazareth” or other such person, then: 1) those records never existed, 2) those records have never been found, or 3) those records have been destroyed.

    In any case, the lack of recorded utilitarian evidence precludes the assertion of a historical Jesus. Biblical texts written centuries after the supposed events, often in contradiction and based in myth, cannot be considered evidentiary proof by any stretch of the imagination. At best, they equate to legends passed on from generation to generation with much alteration trough time.

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    • makagutu says:
      November 19, 2014 at 07:30

      The apologists believe the gospels and epistles can be treated as historical biographies and usually ask why should they not be if we can consider Plato’s apology as telling us something about the historical Socrates

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      • Robert A. Vella says:
        November 19, 2014 at 11:14

        Superficially, that is a legitimate argument. Upon closer inspection, the analogy just doesn’t hold up. Multiple Individuals wrote about Socrates contemporaneously. They knew him. They were his students. Theirs were first-hand accounts. Furthermore, Socrates was not described as any kind of deity or supernatural being. He was simply a man… and a philosopher.

        Admittedly, I’m no biblical scholar. However, I am not aware of any first-hand accounts of Jesus. The stories about him were written centuries afterwards by people far removed from the actual events – whatever they were.

        If, for instance, a written record was discovered that documented John’s baptism of Jesus at the time and place where it occurred, then that would be considered credible evidence for the existence of someone named “Jesus.” To my knowledge, no such record has ever been found. Please correct me if I am wrong.

        The old adage applies here: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The idea of Jesus as the son of “God” is quite an extraordinary claim. Where’s the proof – extraordinary or otherwise?

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        • makagutu says:
          November 20, 2014 at 07:45

          For the believer, the gospels were eyewitness reports regardless of the evidence to the contrary.

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          • Robert A. Vella says:
            November 20, 2014 at 11:34

            Sure. Evidence, facts, and objective reasoning are irrelevant to the believer. Unless, of course, it can be manipulated to serve their doctrine. That is why debating such delusional people is pointless. There is no common frame of reference… no basis for understanding… no possibility of resolution.

            Everyone lives in the real world. We can either accept it as it is, or wrap it up in a fairy tale. As an adult, I prefer reality.

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  10. Sonel says:
    November 20, 2014 at 13:01

    I for one would love to see their evidence Mak .. and it should be evidence discovered by them. Not what they found on the internet or was told by from someone else.

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