in which I become an apologist for atheism or have I always been [ I thought I would call truce].
Atheism makes no judgement on how the universe came to be, if it did. I see the point though, because an atheist lacks a belief in deities, any attempt at explaining the beginning of the universe that begins by positing a god falls before it can walk or crawl. Too bad for the theist.
This theist writes
Your belief system requires a LOT more faith than mine. Why is that? Let’s see…
- You believe the universe simply came to be from “nothing” yet you cannot really explain the event. It just happened
- You believe we were all very lucky that everything randomly worked out just right to create conditions for life on this planet
I don’t know the origins of the universe, I wasn’t there. It really doesn’t matter. I would love to know but as things stand, it has little to do with my atheism.
I haven’t heard that before, but then again, we are here. Whether it is by lack or lack of it, we are here.
When a believer creates a strawman like the one above, then
Those things seem a lot harder to swallow than to acknowledge that a master design and a creator brought it all into existence.
would begin to make sense.
The theist then writes
Sure there is science to demonstrate that a single event we call the Big Bang occurred but I believe it was orchestrated by God. If not, then how did it happen? What was before it? Once it took place, is it really logical or easy to accept that everything just happened to fall into place? How often does order arise from an explosion anyway?
which tells me this particular fellow isn’t up to date with their science, if they have any. Since, to this person nothing happens naturally, is god involved in earthquakes? No one that I know of, and that is a lot of people, has claimed to know what was before the big bang.
What is order apart from our way of seeing the world? I, however, like the Boeing 737 analogy disguised as a big question.
I know I don’t have answers to anything and at least I know this.
It is however wrong to suggest
it seems like a much bigger leap of faith to deny the existence of God in favor of random chance than to humbly accept that a Creator put this all together.
a being for which you have no idea what it does, how it does and to what end. It is in my view more honest to accept not knowing than offer answers that have no explanatory value.
So no, I don’t have faith as you would wish. I don’t know many things and I could list a number of them but it is stupid to say because you don’t know, so god.
Random thoughts 
I won’t live to see it, but I imagine one day there will be no gaps left for God to hide in. That will be a fine day.
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Please don’t tell me that! I buy my pants at the Gap! If they’re all gone, I’ll be pant-less! 🙂
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I suggest you begin buying in bulk, dear deity.
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Great idea. Thanks. 🙂
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unfortunately they will then redefine their god in a way that the gaps you think have been filled become once again empty
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When you’re right, you’re right.
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I’m glad you write posts like this answering some of the silly attacks by theists who are incapable of uttering the words’ “I just don’t know.” In regards to the origin of existence, no one knows. Not yet. And definitely not in our lifetimes will it be known. To postulate that some crabby old shit heal of a deity MUST be responsible for the universe, or anything, because, well because, there’s a huge gap in our knowledge about it at the moment, is arrogant, silly, and delusional. To the words “I don’t know” about the origins of everything, I’ll add “I also don’t really care.” I’ve got real things to worry about like how to pay my rent, global warming, and parasitic Republicans taking over my country. These things require my focus because these things I can perhaps do something about. Invisible, non-existent crabby deities have no value to me. They’re not real. Thanks again, brother, for writing posts like this. You’re my hero. 🙂
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You are so right and so kind.
We should deal with things at least that are practical and important to us.
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“Atheism makes no judgement on how the universe came to be.” It is really difficult, if not impossible, for Christians to understand this, as to them, everything in their world view is wrapped about how the universe came to be: God.
“I don’t know the origins of the universe, I wasn’t there. It really doesn’t matter. I would love to know but as things stand, it has little to do with my atheism.” Exactly. Not knowing the origin of the universe doesn’t affect the way I live my life or the manner in which I carry out the activities of daily living. It’s a nice to know, but not a need to know.
Great post. Mak.
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Thanks Doob. There is nothing to add to your comment. I am in agreement
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I read that post too. It reminded me of something the Great Troll SOM would write. I love the “something can’t come from nothing” line from Christians.
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something can’t come from nothing unless god has done it.
i would think it is SoM but it lacks his signature claim of atheists not believing in the enlightenment
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SOM came from nothing. If he isn’t absolute proof that a plethora of hot, volatile gas can come from nothing, than I know not what is.
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if SoM could comment here, he would roast you with stupid
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Oh, I know. Thank goodness you don’t let him. There’s only so much childish name calling I can take from a christian so loving as him. He’s a poster child for why every christian should tuck tail and run to warm, comforting arms of non-belief.
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I give it to those who can stand him. Let him exercise his free speech elsewhere, I have better things to deal with.
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I agree. Let him exercise his free speech on his own blog. The oddness and entertaining uniqueness of this pathologically ill fellow wears off rather quickly.
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I can never stand it
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If you thought only Christians and Muslims have whackos, you haven’t met this fellow
http://www.therakyatpost.com/world/2015/02/27/400-men-cut-their-testicles-off-believing-it-would-help-them-meet-god/
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If they really believe that, they SHOULD cut their balls off, as it will prevent them from producing offspring. Don’t need more like this in the world.
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It would be good if Muslims and Christians did that before they had offspring
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Ah, Violet, I’ve been told by cosmologists that “nothing” as used in your comment is a place holder of sorts. Since one of the things that the Big Bang theory includes is that time as well as space began at the Bang, asking what came before is meaningless. I find that somewhat unsatisfactory since it’s like saying “you can’t ask that question”. I don’t mind the idea that we have no way at our current level of knowledge to know what else there might be. Ah, perhaps it was the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster after all! The Christians’ problem with things like this is actually the very scary (to them) idea that maybe something can come from nothing… like their God? The All That Is simply Is. You don’t need to personalize It.
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I like that. It appeals to the pragmatist in me. No, I am not spending a lifetime pondering silly questions. Life is for living and now because I don’t want to meet any theists in my version of any paradise.
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most theists have a way of pooing in any party.
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“You believe we were all very lucky that everything randomly worked out just right to create conditions for life on this planet.”
Actually, I kind of do believe this. If the universe did have a mind of its own it would likely respond ‘yeah, so what?!’ to all our little quibbles.
Spinoza thought that the universe just *is* the ‘mind’ of the universe, i.e., the unfolding of the rational relationships between material entities; this was the closest thing to divinity we could get from it.
Of course, it’s a mind with a very warped sense of humor, sometimes….
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a warped sense of humour, sometimes. No, I think all the time
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It’s funny that God is the answer to unanswerable questions, but old mythologies that did the same thing are considered silly beliefs. Some people are unable to accept not knowing, so they use God to feel more comfortable about things.
I surmise that some theists would psychologically fall apart if told that death is the end. Some people cannot handle the idea that beyond us, beyond the questions that we can answer, there may possibly be absolutely nothing. So while I disagree with the theists argument, I understand his or her need to believe in a deity. It’s the only way some can cope.
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You are indeed right Kathryn, for some their world appears to me to be shuttered were they to imagine a godless universe. We should keep the discussion live, encouraging men and women to not live in fear of the unknown. Should ever there be an afterlife, it will take care of itself
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Sure there is science to demonstrate that a single event we call the Big Bang occurred
Well, right there is your problem. There isn’t science to demonstrate the BB. It has never been proven. It is still a hypothesis. If the theist doesn’t even understand this, then he’s just going to get everything else wrong.
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Except for the part about a man returning from the dead after being crucified you mean, right? A man who most likely never even existed? Surely, theists couldn’t be wrong about that evidence supported fact, could they? 🙂
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Well, there is that, as well…
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Of course there is. Thank you for supporting the undeniable truth the Jesus is God and to deny it means your penis is tiny. $Amen$
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LOL
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😀
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no, if you don’t see evidence for that singular event, you are reading the bible wrong
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Christians have told me that the testimonies of people who saw and talked to Jesus after the crucifixion prove that it happened. I wonder what they make of all the people who have claimed to have seen Elvis?
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Based upon their own beliefs they must, too, believe that. Remember, if someone proclaims it as “faith” it is horribly erroneous to question it yet alone demand empirical evidence for it. $Amen$
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the theist has heard WLC say it, Craig is right so case closed
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How many theists are going to read to find out what the BB says.
They remind me of stories we used to tell of birds when they went to school to learn to make nests, the dove stayed only for the first part of the lesson and left no wonder its nests are so simple and exposed
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You are saying it: straw man arguments. Since somebody constructing a straw man does not really deal with your arguments, but with arguments he is constructing himself, you could just as well leave them alone. There is no honest attempt on the side of such people to understand the position they are pretending to argue against (and whoever uses this rethorical “tactic” implicitly admits he does not have good arguments.
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In fact in this particular case, there is no pretense at honesty. He doesn’t allow comments on this strawmen posts he has written
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People who assume atheism comments on the creation of the universe, the beginning of Time and Sliced Bread should go away already.
Big Bang is the most popular theory, but from the little I know it’s not conclusive enough/there are other competing theories. It’s not like evolution, where there’s not disagreement.
Somewhere, there’s an interesting argument for deism there but it’s mostly “Huh, ain’t that atheism on some trippy shit”.
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Why do believers want atheism to explain things it is not concerned with? Like why oranges are yellow when ripe?
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Talk about a completely different subject, show your opponet’s ignorance in it and VIOLA – You won! As if sucking at baseball means you can’t play soccer.
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theirs is an all time winning strategy
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Is accepting a theists belief any better than acknowledging our own ignorance and moving on? Why is belief in a natural sequence of events any different from a deity ordered universe. Neither one gives us ant concrete proof?
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Very well said. We don’t know and that should be the honest answer, we can speculate but gods offer no explanatory value
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At the outset, I don’t think this theist is mad at any atheist I know, unless there are some of us secretly harboring the beliefs he’s talking about. He clearly states who he’s mad at. I’m thankful that I am content with saying, “I don’t know” to things I don’t know.
Also, I LOL’d at the comment he made about order arising from explosions. I don’t know of any order arising immediately after an explosion, but maybe it could happen after several billion years…
I only wish I could tell him that on his post.
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he doesn’t allow comments on his posts. That way he can create strawmen, cut them down to pieces and go tell his friends how he has shown atheists are wrong and full of faith
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I just want to go to his blog and say, “Dude! Who are you mad at! You are literally raging at nobody!”
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I don’t know is the only honest answer as it leaves the door wide open.
God did it, slams that door right in everyone’s face.
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slams and bolts it
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Good post. I can’t think of anything else to add that hasn’t already been stated a gazillion times over.
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Thanks Ron
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As I commented on another blog, I can’t help but wonder why “Christians” carry on these lengthy conversations with atheists (perhaps not in this case, but overall). To me, it smacks of major doubt that they’re too afraid to admit, even to themselves.
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Another thing. He writes: “it seems like a much bigger leap of faith to deny the existence of God in favor of random chance …” IMO, the BIG leap of faith is to believe in the existence of “God.” Wish I could have said that on his blog. 😦
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I agree with you Nan.
I don’t know why he is addressing atheists and then close comments or is he talking to himself
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to the christian it is the atheist who needs to be shown the light. They are trying to help us out of ignorance
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I’ll remain ignorant, thank you very much. 😉
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i think that is a good decision
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