there are no good atheists

Sorry atheists.

This post is a response to there are no good atheists by pastor Rick Henderson.

First remember the pastor has the deck stacked against you. You can’t win against the house, in this case that’s him, but that is fine with me. It is the kind of card game I enjoy as long as I am not putting any money in it, let’s play.

He says the atheists who insist theirs is just a disbelief in deities are withholding information. He writes that at heart, each atheists holds to the following

1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces). It is safe to say we have no evidence for the supernatural and no way of detecting them

2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.  Here is a mistake, the universe isn’t governed but we see the laws of nature operate strictly in the universe. To say the universe is governed would require us to be outside of it and I know no one who has achieved that feat.

3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will. We are again faced with a problem. If the universe by definition includes all that is in it, it contains both conscious and non-conscious organisms. 

I could possibly leave off here and tell the pastor he has missed his aim by a million miles but today being Sunday and is my be nice to theists day, I will answer his other challenges.

I think he commits a fallacy of equivocation in his next paragraph when he writes

Anything and everything that happens in such a universe is meaningless

and by leaving it open-ended, it can interpreted any way. It should be noted that humans, who are part of the universe give things meaning. A stone on the other hand being without consciousness is incapable of any such deductions.

So this next statement

A young girl is rescued from sexual slavery. A dog barks. A man is killed for not espousing the national religion. These are all actions that can be known and explained but never given any meaning or value.

is no longer about the universe but people and as such is untrue. To us, it matters that a man is killed for believing in a different god or that a girl is freed from slavery. It has meaning, it has value.

From the foregoing, it is clear that the dilemma the pastor raises is a false one. It is non-existent.

The pastor then goes to the deep end of the rails where all of them eventually end. He writes

His only reasonable conclusion is to reject objective meaning and morality. Thus, calling him “good” in the moral sense is nonsensical.

and for the umpteenth time we must ask,  is talk of morality only possible when we accept objective morality? Is talk of meaning only possible when we acknowledge objective meaning? Is something only sweet when we have objective sweetness? Is sex only good when we have objective sex? And how would that sex be, that is, objective sex?

As they say, even a broken watch is correct twice a day, so it is possible that even a wrong person sometimes by accident gets something right. He writes,

At best, morality is the mass delusion shared by humanity, protecting us from the cold sting of despair.

and I agree with this.

I don’t know about you, but I think he is being economical with facts when he writes

But I’ve never met an atheist who’s managed to live this way. All the atheists I’ve known personally and from afar live as if there is objective meaning and morality

And am sure he hasn’t met me. I gave up the search for meaning. Life is the all. Anyone looking for meaning has not learnt what being alive really is. All the human endeavours are the source of meaning, nothing beyond the ordinary. Kissing your baby in the morning, working at your station, writing all these we do because they have meaning for us. Meaning isn’t hidden under a stone that we are trying to fetch.

I believe morality[ whatever it might mean for you] evolved out of a sense of reciprocity for people/ animals living in community. A person living alone in isolation has no use of morals. He has no obligations to anyone.

I get disappointed all the time I read posts by Christian apologists regardless of their education. William Craig disappoints me, the arm-chair apologist, not you divine1, disappoints me even worse but pastors simply annoy me. How can a class of people be so silly? How can a whole class of people be so unreasonable? Worse how can a whole class that feels they have to apologise for their faith get things so wrong? Can’t we get a better challenge?

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A window for truth

This is a public service announcement. The author of a window for truth and their audience think this about atheists’ memes

Atheist memes are among the most childish and unintellectual things on the internet; not to say all atheists are unthinking robots but the memes that prosper are generally the ones that state something the average atheist WANTS to believe is true.

They click “Like” as unthinkingly as an elderly Christian grandmother might proclaim “Halleluiah” when told to at a Billy Graham event. They react, but they don’t think before reacting.

They put down “sheep” and yet act like sheep.

But am putting the cart before the horse.

1. God sends no one to hell

Tell me, how could a mortal send an omnimax being out of their lives? How the fuck would you do that? Is this to say there are things god wants but can’t effect?

2. Even if you ignore my first point, who says God sends everyone to Hell for having an abortion?

In all honesty, this didn’t make sense.

3. Kills His only Son

I will let the author speak for himself and bold font added by us

First of all, it was Roman authorities who did the killing. They were urged on by manipulative religious authorities who felt threatened by Jesus, His popularity and His disregard for their petty religious rules and regulations. A suicide by the centurion and there is a big if. We have no evidence the fellow lived, forget the suicide.

Secondly, God allowed Jesus to die because a significant part of Jesus’s mission — many Christians would declare it was the most important part — was to be a sacrifice that would make up for all the wrong things we’ve done and all the right things we’ve failed to do. Well, it would do that for everyone who accepts the gift of Jesus. In this case, god was an accessory to the murder

Why was a death necessary? Because this “sinning” business is deadly stuff, far more lethal than most of us truly understand. And nothing we can do or say or think or pray can make up for all the wrong things we’ve done and the right things we’ve failed to do. All our efforts will always fall short. Always. Fuck! He is god. He could as well have said you sons of bitches and bastards are all forgiven. I mean he created the universe by saying let there be, how could forgiving people without killing others be harder?

He proposes at the end

Yes or no, post your thoughts below and let’s have a conversation.

and I pass that offer. What type of conversation do you have with a person in the deep end of stupid?

Am an atheist and am depressed

Seriously no! And that title isn’t to grab your attention not is it a call for help. I wrote yesterday there is an outbreak of stupid in Christendom. This morning I am reading atheism leads to depression and suicide and I go what the fuck are these guys smoking? Burning bush anyone?

The OP tells us the bible is all the evidence you need. She says the evidence is right there in Romans 1.

There is nothing in being an atheist that says you will be happy. Nothing about being an atheist that says you will not consider suicide. That an atheist is unhappy is not an argument against it. If this were the case, a suicide by a christian is conclusive argument against Christianity.

I am not depressed. I have read about a few friends who suffer depression and some of them it seems it started while they were still believers, but the OP has you covered. She writes

If a “Christian” is not a true one, and is only one in name, depression can certainly arrive.

She writes that this book Crucifying Christ in our Colleges” (by Dan Gilbert) gives all the evidence you need to know that atheism leads to suicide. I think more people commit suicide because they are poor than because they don’t believe in god.

And now she offers the solution to those of you suffering from depression

If you’re struggling with thoughts and feelings of depression and suicide, don’t give-in to it. Only give-in to God

and me wonders what stopped god from ensuring you don’t have depression in the first place? Why do believers believe in such a sadist? Plus she has evidence his solution works. Again I let her speak for herself

I actually have a friend who used to be atheistic, then accepted the truth and is now a strong person in the Lord

And if you want to know how to get this going, again lets hear her speak

If you have any comments or questions, please leave a message for me.

I am not the one to break people’s bubbles but I have a weakness, I admit, my tolerance for stupid is really low. It is quite plain this author doesn’t know what atheism is, what depression is or she would have treated them well.