on miracles and revealed religion


In Walter R. Cassels’ response to Dr. Lightfoot, contained in A Reply to Dr. Lightfoot’s essays, he writes in his concluding remarks, emphasis mine and made in relation to this discussion on Violet’s blog.

The true character of miracles is at once betrayed by the fact that their supposed occurrence has thus been confined to ages of ignorance and superstition, and that they are absolutely unknown in any time or place where science has provided witnesses fitted to appreciate and ascertain the nature of such exhibitions of supernatural power. There is not the slightest evidence that any attempt was made to investigate the supposed miraculous occurrences, or to justify the inferences so freely drawn from them, nor is there any reason to believe that the witnesses possessed, in any considerable degree, the fulness of knowledge and sobriety of judgment requisite for the purpose. No miracle has yet established its claim to the rank even of apparent reality, and all such phenomena must remain in the dim region of imagination. The test applied to the largest class of miracles, connected with demoniacal possession, discloses the falsity of all miraculous pretension.

He continues elsewhere, and I agree

Ignorance and superstition created miracles; knowledge has for ever annihilated them.

To justify the belief in miracles, he says the peddlers make two assumptions

first, an Infinite Personal God; and second, a Divine design of Revelation, the execution of which necessarily involves supernatural action. Miracles, it is argued, are not contrary to nature, or effects produced without adequate causes, but on the contrary are caused by the intervention of this Infinite Personal God for the purpose of attesting and carrying out the Divine design. Neither of the assumptions, however, can be reasonably maintained.

I rest my case.

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

136 thoughts on “on miracles and revealed religion

  1. violetwisp says:

    It’s a relief to read some sanity.

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      I have been wondering how you manage to collect several loonies at one go so easily?

      Like

      • violetwisp says:

        No Christian commented until I wrote them individual invites saying it was a serious topic and I’d appreciate their input. Dpmonaghan was the only one to turn up under his own steam. I think most of them regretted coming, especially poor Brandon, so I don’t expect I’ll have much Christian input in the future.

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        • makagutu says:

          Ah, that explains it. But I think you have been highly entertained, Brandon flaunting his medical profession, Colostrom genesis 1, BFA his bible knowledge and Tribulus differing with almost all of them and then your group of choir members busy baiting hapless superstitious fellows

          Liked by 1 person

          • violetwisp says:

            Some of it was quite interesting. I’m trying to put a ‘highlights’ post together but it’s a lot of work … and I have a crying baby and crazy three year old round me. Don’t tell me about demonic possession! 😉

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            I am sure you now have a fair understanding of demonic possession, its diagnosis and possible treatment. You should open a medical centre. Stop passing the opportunity to be rich

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          • violetwisp says:

            Indeed! 😀

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          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            I can’t decide of “colostrom” is a typo on your part or not…you have a wicked sense of humor if it’s not, Mak. 😀

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          • Colorstorm, CS, or colorstrom should never be viewed as a typo, just as an idiot. An idiot of his magnitude outshines any and all typos made whilst typing his name. My nickname for him is fish-bait because he can’t help but bite at the lures Mak and others toss out for him. He hasn’t been here in a bit, but he’ll be back. He can not stop himself. He’s an idiot.

            Like

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            You know, I just called him an idiot just a few seconds ago on violet’s blog, and then ended up feeling the need to apologize. I don’t know if it’s my catholic guilt or what the hell is wrong with me, but I did end up apologizing. He’s still a person…one whose aggravating as hell, but then he thinks the same of me.

            Mak’s typo (or maybe not a typo) colostrom is very close to the word colostrum, which is the milk a new nursing cow gives out of it’s teet.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            He is this blog’s resident idiot and that is no typo. You are a nice person and maybe the long years of training in guilt and sin makes you apologise for things that are obvious to any unbiased observer.

            Liked by 1 person

          • You and I know that, but he doesn’t. Why? Because he’s an idiot. Only people can be idiots. Only they can chose to remain ignorant of reality. Birds can’t do that, nor fish, only we humans. CS goes OUT of his way to bother people. He comes looking for fights with his nose held high over us normal non-believers. Thus, the idiot tag fits him. He’s earned it. Ain’t easy to do, but he did it.

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          • makagutu says:

            He provides a comic break.

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          • He would, if he were funny. He’s more like nails on a chalk board.

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          • Oh, and as one former katlick to another, exposure to ding-bats like CS will wash that guilt right outta in very little time.

            Liked by 1 person

          • makagutu says:

            Oh yes, dealing with Cs requires patience

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          • makagutu says:

            Insufferable idiot I must add.

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          • makagutu says:

            I like the sound of colostrom. Unlike jesus I have a sense of humour. You know there is no place he makes a joke

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          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            Yeah, the catholic jesus is tragically short on humor. At least the protestants get the goodwill of grace thrown in there, but the catholics are all fire and brimstone. Ugh.

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          • makagutu says:

            I think you got it mixed up. The Catholic jesus is alright. You can repent on Saturday, get high on sunday and remember all this the following Saturday.
            The protestant jesus on the other hand is all fire and brimstone.

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          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            😀 Maybe so, Mak. There was for sure a lot of drinkin’ and gamblin’ with the catholics…not so many church people getting high though. That part you might have confused with BFA7’s (non)denomination.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Bfa7 amuses me.

            Like

          • archaeopteryx1 says:

            I made it up (having once raised horses) because CS was mistyping my name in every conceivable way on his own blog – once I began calling him Colostrum, he decided to type my name correctly, so as part of the Mexican standoff, I began typing his name correctly too. Mak, on the other hand, is under no such obligation.

            Like

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            Oh god, that’s funny. CS only calls me shrinkV…never violet or something else nice. Perhaps now that I’ve apologized to him he’ll have a change of heart. I did notice the christians like messin’ with our names!

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Silliness of mind has never written my name correctly.
            I told Cs I only engage with him for entertainment, I am hardly going to learn anything new from him on religion.

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          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            I’ve not the pleasure of attracting SOM…I’m hoping to slip under his radar. CS caught me rather fast.

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          • SoM will find you. He’s like a pimple on a teenagers rump. There’s no avoiding it. He makes CS look like a genius. Idiot is far to kind a word for him.

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          • makagutu says:

            Som is both silly and an idiot

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          • A sillidiot. I like that.

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          • makagutu says:

            That describes Som perfectly

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          • makagutu says:

            Som will find you and piss you off.

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          • Call him fish-bait and tell him it’s from me. Oh, send him a big man kiss from me too, next time your chattin’. He loves me. Taught him bout the nature of his true sexual identity.

            Liked by 1 person

          • makagutu says:

            You got him with that my friend. I laugh all the time you piss him off

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          • I’ve scared him off two or three times now. He’ll be back. He has a man crush on you, Mak.

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          • makagutu says:

            I am sure he will be back. His comments are not moderated and I respond to him

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          • I’m waitin’ for him to pop back over to my blog. Believe me, his comments will be approved after I completely rewrite them. I be a bad atheist. 😉

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          • makagutu says:

            Hahahaha.
            I can’t wait for that. I think I will have a doctor on call because I may hurt myself laughing

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          • I just wish I’d have thought of it sooner. He or SoM will most certainly be back, but the anticipation is killin’ me.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            The waiting is killing me too.
            You can’t bait som in anyway? Maybe do a special post for him and tag him. I just want to laugh

            Like

          • Great idea. I’ll tag him in my next post. He will not be able to stop himself from popping over. He gonna be PISSED!! Hee Haw!

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          • makagutu says:

            The best thing is maybe to write something negative about atheist and the universe coming from nothing and praising him for defending enlightenment values. I have a feeling this will be irresistible

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          • I shall consider this today: a day of feasting and celebrating a fictional man’s torture, crucifixion and death. Lovely, beautiful day, eh? Oh, BTW, I just ordered Bart Ehrman’s book about how Jesus became a god. The exact title eludes me at the moment. I’ll let you know what I think of it when I’m finished with it.

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          • makagutu says:

            Looking forward to that.
            Am reading essays and lectures by Huxley. After that I will be reading religion and sex by Cohen Chapman

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          • Let me know what you think of them.

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          • makagutu says:

            I sure will

            Like

  2. john zande says:

    Ignorance and superstition created miracles; knowledge has for ever annihilated them.

    Using that!!!

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  3. A Guy Without Boxers says:

    A great tidbit to use at this season of the greatest sham in the world. Thank you for sharing this, my Nairobi brother! 🙂

    Like

  4. Excellent post, my friend. I’m having a 24 hour zombie movie marathon this weekend to celebrate christian zombie day. You know, the day christians say a guy returned to life from a death he in all likelihood never experienced due the great probability he never existed in the first place? That day.

    Like

  5. ejwinner says:

    I think it a miracle I was able to get up this morning after the party last night….
    Now did god intervene this morning? or at the party?
    Oops! a cup of coffee miraculously appeared in my hand –
    – wait! bah! it’s de-caf! what cruel god would play such a jest?! screw him!

    Like

    • makagutu says:

      You need to repent for calling god’s name in vain

      Liked by 1 person

    • That’s Presbyterian Jesus f*ckin’ with ya, pal. I suggest praying to Catholic Jesus if you want caffeinated beverages, alcohol, and sin-free gambling. 🙂

      Liked by 2 people

      • ejwinner says:

        Thank you! I’ve switched faiths again and now have the energy I need to run away from church!
        Folks, start your day right with – Catho-Cola (TM) – the energy drink made directly from water – no additives!

        Like

      • makagutu says:

        The Presbyterian Jesus gets really mad at the Catholic Jesus

        Like

      • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

        At least the catholic jesus is good for something! I used to work in a catholic convent, and the nuns and visiting priests would get plastered to the point of staggering several times a week. They had a “wine room” which was filled with kegs of beer and bottles of booze to the rafters! The tea-totaler protestants would have deeply frowned on the whole affair.

        Like

        • I worked for the Church for years too. Drinkin’ and gamblin’ are par for the course with the Catholics.

          Like

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            You worked for the church? What did you do there?

            I must with great dismay admit I was a member of the cult for decades, until just recently. Now I’m angry as hell they sucked me in for so long.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Don’t worry Vi. I was a member too but not an official. I feel bad I wasted so much time believing crazy things

            Liked by 1 person

          • I went to Catholic school from K-12th grade. I worked as a janitor at my old grade school from the time I was 14 into my early 20’s. I was never really into the religion. I believed it because I was supposed to and felt it was “evil” to doubt it out loud, but it wasn’t too hard to finally realize, “This shit ain’t real.” So, anyway, I’m quite familiar with the katlicks, and drinking. 😉

            Like

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            It seems a lot of atheists came to their senses rather young, which makes me insanely jealous. Unfortunately I DID really buy into the crap of religion, and for a very long time…it just kills me. I suppose it’s never too late though to seize your sanity! 🙂

            Like

          • Oh, I wasn’t a “full blown” atheist til i was in my mid-40’s. Wasn’t a big church goer, but the word, “This shit ain’t real” didn’t feel right coming out of my mouth til just a few years ago.

            Like

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            Well thank goodness I’m not the only one. I declared myself an atheist just a few months ago at age 41, but was a full-on, bible banging believer nearly up to that point. The f’ing horror!

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            It’s never too late to change. Am lucky I left at 27 that is 4 years ago

            Like

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            Huh…I must have been mixing you up with someone else Mak, cuz I thought you were one of the lucky ones who managed to get out of the cult in their late teens. 27 is still a fine young age to dump it all, and now you’ve been embracing reality for 4 years already. Not a bad accomplishment! I think of people like my mom, who at age 70 are still stuck in the mire, and that makes me really sad.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Well, I still have friends praying for me in the hope that I will start going to church again.
            For those of advanced age I think are more fearful and wouldn’t want to move away from where they feel comfy

            Liked by 1 person

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            The amount of people still praying for my soul is unbelievable…I hope the number tapers off with time because it aggravates the crap out of me to think in four years they might still be at it.

            My poor mother is about to have a heart attack with me leaving the church, and I hate to vex her too much…she’s the only one that makes me feel sad about my deconversion. The rest can go to hell.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Don’t vex the old lady. The rest can go to hell

            Like

          • archaeopteryx1 says:

            I’ve known Mak for nearly all of those four years, and until now, had no idea that when I met him he was such a recent deconvert. It’s always a good day when you learn something new.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            I have always said you were a good teacher and friend. It has always been a pleasure knowing you

            Like

          • archaeopteryx1 says:

            Just puttin’ one foot in front of the other – sometimes that takes me places, other times in circles.

            Like

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            Arch, were you ever in the cult, or were you blissfully free all your life?

            Like

          • Bless you my child, and welcome to the world of immoral child-eating non-believers. 🙂 $Amen$

            Liked by 1 person

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            I really enjoy the $$ on the sides of Amen! Just yesterday a mormon neighbor gathered her kids closer to her as I, the satanist (aka atheist), walked by…no doubt she thought I was going to eat them. *eye roll*

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Talking of babies, we can share with you the recipe for making Christian babies. I think you could use it with Mormons too

            Like

          • Ain't No Shrinking Violet says:

            Do you saute them in butter and add a little onion and celery? Ummmmm….sweet babies go good with onions!

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            You should always add pepper. Some are known not to taste so good

            Liked by 1 person

          • Mormon meat requires much more tenderizing and A LOT of garlic to make to even half way palatable.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Scientologist meat is however inedible. Nothing can be done to improve it

            Like

          • Agreed. You can even eat it whilst it still breaths and enjoy it, though it might scream a bit. 🙂

            Like

          • Good thing I don’t live near ’em. I’d poison their wells. 🙂

            Like

        • makagutu says:

          Oh yes. That is plus 1 for Catholic jesus

          Liked by 1 person

  6. archaeopteryx1 says:

    Few are aware that Lightfoot, not Bishop Ussher as is usually presumed, was the first to trace back the biblical lineages and determine that the Earth was only 6000 years old. He even determined (don’t ask me how) that the Creation occurred on a given day in October, at nine o’clock in the morning. He died before his results were published, and so Ussher got the credit (blame?).

    Like

  7. […] Source: on miracles and revealed religion […]

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  8. archaeopteryx1 says:

    I was in Scouting for a number of years. I even joined Girl Scouts for a week, but got kicked out when they caught me eating a Brownie.

    Like

  9. Arkenaten says:

    I think you ought to pop over and convince unklee with this, Mak!
    I dare you.

    Like

  10. shelldigger says:

    Always nice to drop in for some rational thought. Some great thoughts put to pen there.

    What is it about the likes of us where this bare bones rationale so easily cuts through the shuck and jive nonsense of religion? And what is it about “them” that makes them blink stupidly at such a thought, just before they get defensive? They would deny the obviousness of such truth till the end of their days.

    I often wonder, how we all as humans, with so many things in common, have such a wide spread between the ability to reason, and becoming prey to the mind leeches of organized religion. What the hell is it that makes people tend to believe that which is unsupported, unverifiable, un fucking believeable tales of magic known as religion? I mean c’mon, really? Grown ups should give up childish beliefs, but at the same time never forget what it is like to be a kid. 🙂

    I fear I will die never knowing what makes “them” so fearful of reality. Fear itself seems the obvious answer, but I have a feeling it lies much deeper. Some sense of belonging to a group? A comfort in knowing with religion you will always have something to hate? Always having something or someone to feel better than? Knowing you are the local ingroup and everyone else is the outsider?

    I want to know. I know, I know, I’m always saying “I want to know.”

    Like

    • The problem is, those who believe in invisible gods are being influenced to do so by the alien space craft that leave big-ass circles in corn fields. We’re not affected and still can reason because the aliens don’t like us. See? Hope that helps. Goodnight, and have an alien safe sleep.

      Like

    • makagutu says:

      It’s easy and I think comforting for most to believe there is a cosmic dictator watching of them

      Like

      • shelldigger says:

        I’m not sure how it is easy, with a mind trending towards reason.

        I’m not sure how it is comforting when you actually read what is in their magic book…

        Murder, spite, genocide, and glory to those who smash the heads of their enemies children, upon the rocks. The ignorant myth of the flud, wiping out all of humanity save for a few. Well hell, who am I talking to? You know all of this shit.

        The comfort lies I think in the sense of community. The bond between the likeminded delusional souls. The pot luck socials, and secret handshakes. And the sharing of the hate. The hate for all that defies their way of thinking. Therin lies their comfort.

        Like

  11. archaeopteryx1 says:

    I fear I will die never knowing what makes “them” so fearful of reality.” – I may as well, but in the US alone, since 2012, 750,000 have left organized religion, if that trend continues, I’ll die with some degree of satisfaction.

    Like

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