In Walter R. Cassels’ response to Dr. Lightfoot, contained in A Reply to Dr. Lightfoot’s essays, he writes in his concluding remarks, emphasis mine and made in relation to this discussion on Violet’s blog.
The true character of miracles is at once betrayed by the fact that their supposed occurrence has thus been confined to ages of ignorance and superstition, and that they are absolutely unknown in any time or place where science has provided witnesses fitted to appreciate and ascertain the nature of such exhibitions of supernatural power. There is not the slightest evidence that any attempt was made to investigate the supposed miraculous occurrences, or to justify the inferences so freely drawn from them, nor is there any reason to believe that the witnesses possessed, in any considerable degree, the fulness of knowledge and sobriety of judgment requisite for the purpose. No miracle has yet established its claim to the rank even of apparent reality, and all such phenomena must remain in the dim region of imagination. The test applied to the largest class of miracles, connected with demoniacal possession, discloses the falsity of all miraculous pretension.
He continues elsewhere, and I agree
Ignorance and superstition created miracles; knowledge has for ever annihilated them.
To justify the belief in miracles, he says the peddlers make two assumptions
first, an Infinite Personal God; and second, a Divine design of Revelation, the execution of which necessarily involves supernatural action. Miracles, it is argued, are not contrary to nature, or effects produced without adequate causes, but on the contrary are caused by the intervention of this Infinite Personal God for the purpose of attesting and carrying out the Divine design. Neither of the assumptions, however, can be reasonably maintained.
I rest my case.
It’s a relief to read some sanity.
LikeLike
I have been wondering how you manage to collect several loonies at one go so easily?
LikeLike
No Christian commented until I wrote them individual invites saying it was a serious topic and I’d appreciate their input. Dpmonaghan was the only one to turn up under his own steam. I think most of them regretted coming, especially poor Brandon, so I don’t expect I’ll have much Christian input in the future.
LikeLike
Ah, that explains it. But I think you have been highly entertained, Brandon flaunting his medical profession, Colostrom genesis 1, BFA his bible knowledge and Tribulus differing with almost all of them and then your group of choir members busy baiting hapless superstitious fellows
LikeLiked by 1 person
Some of it was quite interesting. I’m trying to put a ‘highlights’ post together but it’s a lot of work … and I have a crying baby and crazy three year old round me. Don’t tell me about demonic possession! 😉
LikeLike
I am sure you now have a fair understanding of demonic possession, its diagnosis and possible treatment. You should open a medical centre. Stop passing the opportunity to be rich
LikeLike
Indeed! 😀
LikeLike
I can’t decide of “colostrom” is a typo on your part or not…you have a wicked sense of humor if it’s not, Mak. 😀
LikeLike
Colorstorm, CS, or colorstrom should never be viewed as a typo, just as an idiot. An idiot of his magnitude outshines any and all typos made whilst typing his name. My nickname for him is fish-bait because he can’t help but bite at the lures Mak and others toss out for him. He hasn’t been here in a bit, but he’ll be back. He can not stop himself. He’s an idiot.
LikeLike
You know, I just called him an idiot just a few seconds ago on violet’s blog, and then ended up feeling the need to apologize. I don’t know if it’s my catholic guilt or what the hell is wrong with me, but I did end up apologizing. He’s still a person…one whose aggravating as hell, but then he thinks the same of me.
Mak’s typo (or maybe not a typo) colostrom is very close to the word colostrum, which is the milk a new nursing cow gives out of it’s teet.
LikeLike
He is this blog’s resident idiot and that is no typo. You are a nice person and maybe the long years of training in guilt and sin makes you apologise for things that are obvious to any unbiased observer.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You and I know that, but he doesn’t. Why? Because he’s an idiot. Only people can be idiots. Only they can chose to remain ignorant of reality. Birds can’t do that, nor fish, only we humans. CS goes OUT of his way to bother people. He comes looking for fights with his nose held high over us normal non-believers. Thus, the idiot tag fits him. He’s earned it. Ain’t easy to do, but he did it.
LikeLike
He provides a comic break.
LikeLike
He would, if he were funny. He’s more like nails on a chalk board.
LikeLike
Oh, and as one former katlick to another, exposure to ding-bats like CS will wash that guilt right outta in very little time.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh yes, dealing with Cs requires patience
LikeLike
Insufferable idiot I must add.
LikeLike
Indeed.
LikeLike
I like the sound of colostrom. Unlike jesus I have a sense of humour. You know there is no place he makes a joke
LikeLike
Yeah, the catholic jesus is tragically short on humor. At least the protestants get the goodwill of grace thrown in there, but the catholics are all fire and brimstone. Ugh.
LikeLike
I think you got it mixed up. The Catholic jesus is alright. You can repent on Saturday, get high on sunday and remember all this the following Saturday.
The protestant jesus on the other hand is all fire and brimstone.
LikeLike
😀 Maybe so, Mak. There was for sure a lot of drinkin’ and gamblin’ with the catholics…not so many church people getting high though. That part you might have confused with BFA7’s (non)denomination.
LikeLike
Bfa7 amuses me.
LikeLike
I made it up (having once raised horses) because CS was mistyping my name in every conceivable way on his own blog – once I began calling him Colostrum, he decided to type my name correctly, so as part of the Mexican standoff, I began typing his name correctly too. Mak, on the other hand, is under no such obligation.
LikeLike
Oh god, that’s funny. CS only calls me shrinkV…never violet or something else nice. Perhaps now that I’ve apologized to him he’ll have a change of heart. I did notice the christians like messin’ with our names!
LikeLike
Silliness of mind has never written my name correctly.
I told Cs I only engage with him for entertainment, I am hardly going to learn anything new from him on religion.
LikeLike
I’ve not the pleasure of attracting SOM…I’m hoping to slip under his radar. CS caught me rather fast.
LikeLike
SoM will find you. He’s like a pimple on a teenagers rump. There’s no avoiding it. He makes CS look like a genius. Idiot is far to kind a word for him.
LikeLike
Som is both silly and an idiot
LikeLike
A sillidiot. I like that.
LikeLike
That describes Som perfectly
LikeLike
Som will find you and piss you off.
LikeLike
Call him fish-bait and tell him it’s from me. Oh, send him a big man kiss from me too, next time your chattin’. He loves me. Taught him bout the nature of his true sexual identity.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You got him with that my friend. I laugh all the time you piss him off
LikeLike
I’ve scared him off two or three times now. He’ll be back. He has a man crush on you, Mak.
LikeLike
I am sure he will be back. His comments are not moderated and I respond to him
LikeLike
I’m waitin’ for him to pop back over to my blog. Believe me, his comments will be approved after I completely rewrite them. I be a bad atheist. 😉
LikeLike
Hahahaha.
I can’t wait for that. I think I will have a doctor on call because I may hurt myself laughing
LikeLike
I just wish I’d have thought of it sooner. He or SoM will most certainly be back, but the anticipation is killin’ me.
LikeLike
The waiting is killing me too.
You can’t bait som in anyway? Maybe do a special post for him and tag him. I just want to laugh
LikeLike
Great idea. I’ll tag him in my next post. He will not be able to stop himself from popping over. He gonna be PISSED!! Hee Haw!
LikeLike
The best thing is maybe to write something negative about atheist and the universe coming from nothing and praising him for defending enlightenment values. I have a feeling this will be irresistible
LikeLike
I shall consider this today: a day of feasting and celebrating a fictional man’s torture, crucifixion and death. Lovely, beautiful day, eh? Oh, BTW, I just ordered Bart Ehrman’s book about how Jesus became a god. The exact title eludes me at the moment. I’ll let you know what I think of it when I’m finished with it.
LikeLike
Looking forward to that.
Am reading essays and lectures by Huxley. After that I will be reading religion and sex by Cohen Chapman
LikeLike
Let me know what you think of them.
LikeLike
I sure will
LikeLike
Ignorance and superstition created miracles; knowledge has for ever annihilated them.
Using that!!!
LikeLike
By all means use it.
Shelley also writing in the 1820s wrote ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, knowledge of nature is made for their destruction.
LikeLike
Nice!
Hey, do you use the site Forgotten Books? It’s marvellous
LikeLike
Never used it. I will send you a link I happened upon last evening
LikeLike
OK, but do check out Forgotten Books. I’ve been swimming through their enormous catologue
LikeLike
http://www.digitalbookindex.org/subject_search/search010religiona/9
LikeLike
Thanks !
LikeLike
Anytime
LikeLike
What a great link! Thanks from my tiny foot and half self too.
LikeLike
You are most welcome buddy
LikeLike
A great tidbit to use at this season of the greatest sham in the world. Thank you for sharing this, my Nairobi brother! 🙂
LikeLike
Thank you for thanking me
LikeLiked by 1 person
I got your back, my friend!
LikeLike
Excellent post, my friend. I’m having a 24 hour zombie movie marathon this weekend to celebrate christian zombie day. You know, the day christians say a guy returned to life from a death he in all likelihood never experienced due the great probability he never existed in the first place? That day.
LikeLike
Yes, yes that day, I know it.
I thought it was worth sharing, an act of love, you may call it
LikeLike
And thank you so much for sharing. I LOVE me some zombie stories! Christian zombies or Hindu zombies, I don’t care. I just likes the living dead. Jeebus ate the brains of two centurions upon his return from the grave. He ate their brains them their entrails. Man, I LOVE zombie stories! $Amen$
LikeLike
Anywhere a zombie story is shown to be false, there I am home and happy. A fellow like this makes me more than happy
LikeLike
I used to actually believe this sh*t. I think that’s sometimes what makes me angrier than anything else. I bought this garbage. Ugh!
LikeLike
Don’t electrocute yourself though.
I wonder how I believed it for so long
LikeLike
No. I am thinking of renting myself out as a bowling ball, however, being I’m so short and round. I’ll use my bolt to make sure everyone who uses me gets a strike every time they toss me dwarfish ass down the lane. 🙂
LikeLike
That looks like a good idea to me
LikeLike
Except for the dizziness, it’s the best idea I’ve had in decades.
LikeLike
Well, you will get over the dizziness
LikeLike
Oh, and then there’s the headaches I get from my head slamming into the bowling pins. I suppose I’ll just have to hook myself up to a morphine drip to ease the pain. How I suffer for my craft!
LikeLike
We shall just call them work hazards.
LikeLike
I think it a miracle I was able to get up this morning after the party last night….
Now did god intervene this morning? or at the party?
Oops! a cup of coffee miraculously appeared in my hand –
– wait! bah! it’s de-caf! what cruel god would play such a jest?! screw him!
LikeLike
You need to repent for calling god’s name in vain
LikeLiked by 1 person
That’s Presbyterian Jesus f*ckin’ with ya, pal. I suggest praying to Catholic Jesus if you want caffeinated beverages, alcohol, and sin-free gambling. 🙂
LikeLiked by 2 people
Thank you! I’ve switched faiths again and now have the energy I need to run away from church!
Folks, start your day right with – Catho-Cola (TM) – the energy drink made directly from water – no additives!
LikeLike
And don’t have more than one if you intend to drive. $Amen$
LikeLiked by 1 person
Hahahaha. You need to patent this drink
LikeLiked by 1 person
The Presbyterian Jesus gets really mad at the Catholic Jesus
LikeLike
They used to date but then they realized that Jesus, two of whom were they, hates fags, so they stopped. Poor bastards.
LikeLike
At least the catholic jesus is good for something! I used to work in a catholic convent, and the nuns and visiting priests would get plastered to the point of staggering several times a week. They had a “wine room” which was filled with kegs of beer and bottles of booze to the rafters! The tea-totaler protestants would have deeply frowned on the whole affair.
LikeLike
I worked for the Church for years too. Drinkin’ and gamblin’ are par for the course with the Catholics.
LikeLike
You worked for the church? What did you do there?
I must with great dismay admit I was a member of the cult for decades, until just recently. Now I’m angry as hell they sucked me in for so long.
LikeLike
Don’t worry Vi. I was a member too but not an official. I feel bad I wasted so much time believing crazy things
LikeLiked by 1 person
I went to Catholic school from K-12th grade. I worked as a janitor at my old grade school from the time I was 14 into my early 20’s. I was never really into the religion. I believed it because I was supposed to and felt it was “evil” to doubt it out loud, but it wasn’t too hard to finally realize, “This shit ain’t real.” So, anyway, I’m quite familiar with the katlicks, and drinking. 😉
LikeLike
It seems a lot of atheists came to their senses rather young, which makes me insanely jealous. Unfortunately I DID really buy into the crap of religion, and for a very long time…it just kills me. I suppose it’s never too late though to seize your sanity! 🙂
LikeLike
Oh, I wasn’t a “full blown” atheist til i was in my mid-40’s. Wasn’t a big church goer, but the word, “This shit ain’t real” didn’t feel right coming out of my mouth til just a few years ago.
LikeLike
Well thank goodness I’m not the only one. I declared myself an atheist just a few months ago at age 41, but was a full-on, bible banging believer nearly up to that point. The f’ing horror!
LikeLike
It’s never too late to change. Am lucky I left at 27 that is 4 years ago
LikeLike
Huh…I must have been mixing you up with someone else Mak, cuz I thought you were one of the lucky ones who managed to get out of the cult in their late teens. 27 is still a fine young age to dump it all, and now you’ve been embracing reality for 4 years already. Not a bad accomplishment! I think of people like my mom, who at age 70 are still stuck in the mire, and that makes me really sad.
LikeLike
Well, I still have friends praying for me in the hope that I will start going to church again.
For those of advanced age I think are more fearful and wouldn’t want to move away from where they feel comfy
LikeLiked by 1 person
The amount of people still praying for my soul is unbelievable…I hope the number tapers off with time because it aggravates the crap out of me to think in four years they might still be at it.
My poor mother is about to have a heart attack with me leaving the church, and I hate to vex her too much…she’s the only one that makes me feel sad about my deconversion. The rest can go to hell.
LikeLike
Don’t vex the old lady. The rest can go to hell
LikeLike
I’ve known Mak for nearly all of those four years, and until now, had no idea that when I met him he was such a recent deconvert. It’s always a good day when you learn something new.
LikeLike
I have always said you were a good teacher and friend. It has always been a pleasure knowing you
LikeLike
Just puttin’ one foot in front of the other – sometimes that takes me places, other times in circles.
LikeLike
Arch, were you ever in the cult, or were you blissfully free all your life?
LikeLike
Bless you my child, and welcome to the world of immoral child-eating non-believers. 🙂 $Amen$
LikeLiked by 1 person
I really enjoy the $$ on the sides of Amen! Just yesterday a mormon neighbor gathered her kids closer to her as I, the satanist (aka atheist), walked by…no doubt she thought I was going to eat them. *eye roll*
LikeLike
Talking of babies, we can share with you the recipe for making Christian babies. I think you could use it with Mormons too
LikeLike
Do you saute them in butter and add a little onion and celery? Ummmmm….sweet babies go good with onions!
LikeLike
You should always add pepper. Some are known not to taste so good
LikeLiked by 1 person
Mormon meat requires much more tenderizing and A LOT of garlic to make to even half way palatable.
LikeLike
Scientologist meat is however inedible. Nothing can be done to improve it
LikeLike
Agreed. You can even eat it whilst it still breaths and enjoy it, though it might scream a bit. 🙂
LikeLike
Good thing I don’t live near ’em. I’d poison their wells. 🙂
LikeLike
Oh yes. That is plus 1 for Catholic jesus
LikeLiked by 1 person
Few are aware that Lightfoot, not Bishop Ussher as is usually presumed, was the first to trace back the biblical lineages and determine that the Earth was only 6000 years old. He even determined (don’t ask me how) that the Creation occurred on a given day in October, at nine o’clock in the morning. He died before his results were published, and so Ussher got the credit (blame?).
LikeLike
Thanks buddy for that bit of information. Maybe Lightfoot talked to god
LikeLike
And he didn’t receive a Nobel for this why? “A specific day in October a 9AM.” Yeah. That makes perfect sense.
LikeLike
Same way you haven’t received yours. A conspiracy to silence great ideas
LikeLike
Mine are far greater than his as I know, and freely admit, they’re full of shit. 🙂
LikeLike
That there are people who believe that shit is true
LikeLike
“in October, at nine o’clock in the morning”
Yeah, but:
– which timezone?
– standard or daylight saving time?
– before or after January and February were inserted into the calendar?
LikeLike
Mesopotamian Daylight Savings Time, of course.
LikeLike
Haha arch
LikeLike
You are asking many questions Ron. It was Jesus time
LikeLike
[…] Source: on miracles and revealed religion […]
LikeLike
I was in Scouting for a number of years. I even joined Girl Scouts for a week, but got kicked out when they caught me eating a Brownie.
LikeLike
Okay … I’ll play.Groan.
LikeLike
I got kicked out cause a brownie was eating me.
LikeLike
I think you ought to pop over and convince unklee with this, Mak!
I dare you.
LikeLike
What is the difference between talking to Brandon, Cs, som or unklee? Ark my friend, my patience for idiots wore thin.
LikeLike
Did unklee start responding to you?
LikeLike
Surely you jest?
LikeLike
Christian charity and love those who persecute you kind of thing?
Or the sermon on the mount is not applicable anymore?
LikeLike
Always nice to drop in for some rational thought. Some great thoughts put to pen there.
What is it about the likes of us where this bare bones rationale so easily cuts through the shuck and jive nonsense of religion? And what is it about “them” that makes them blink stupidly at such a thought, just before they get defensive? They would deny the obviousness of such truth till the end of their days.
I often wonder, how we all as humans, with so many things in common, have such a wide spread between the ability to reason, and becoming prey to the mind leeches of organized religion. What the hell is it that makes people tend to believe that which is unsupported, unverifiable, un fucking believeable tales of magic known as religion? I mean c’mon, really? Grown ups should give up childish beliefs, but at the same time never forget what it is like to be a kid. 🙂
I fear I will die never knowing what makes “them” so fearful of reality. Fear itself seems the obvious answer, but I have a feeling it lies much deeper. Some sense of belonging to a group? A comfort in knowing with religion you will always have something to hate? Always having something or someone to feel better than? Knowing you are the local ingroup and everyone else is the outsider?
I want to know. I know, I know, I’m always saying “I want to know.”
LikeLike
The problem is, those who believe in invisible gods are being influenced to do so by the alien space craft that leave big-ass circles in corn fields. We’re not affected and still can reason because the aliens don’t like us. See? Hope that helps. Goodnight, and have an alien safe sleep.
LikeLike
Good morning buddy
LikeLike
Good afternoon to you. Crazy news from over by you today. Crazy and tragic.
LikeLike
Oh yes, it’s a tragedy bro
LikeLike
It’s easy and I think comforting for most to believe there is a cosmic dictator watching of them
LikeLike
I’m not sure how it is easy, with a mind trending towards reason.
I’m not sure how it is comforting when you actually read what is in their magic book…
Murder, spite, genocide, and glory to those who smash the heads of their enemies children, upon the rocks. The ignorant myth of the flud, wiping out all of humanity save for a few. Well hell, who am I talking to? You know all of this shit.
The comfort lies I think in the sense of community. The bond between the likeminded delusional souls. The pot luck socials, and secret handshakes. And the sharing of the hate. The hate for all that defies their way of thinking. Therin lies their comfort.
LikeLike
I think anyone who reads the bible without bias and still remains a believer could with confidence said to lack reason.
Hate is a universality shared by most religions
LikeLike
Lol. On that we agree my friend.
LikeLike
“I fear I will die never knowing what makes “them” so fearful of reality.” – I may as well, but in the US alone, since 2012, 750,000 have left organized religion, if that trend continues, I’ll die with some degree of satisfaction.
LikeLike
That I think is satisfying
LikeLike
[…] One can also refer to Walter Cassel’s response to Dr. Lightfoot on miracles which can be found here. […]
LikeLike