what is it with believers?


Here we are, having a conversation on freewill and I get asked

And how do you decide what behavior is “good”, and thus ought to be pushed on everyone? I know that the Bible makes it pretty easy – good is probably best defined as that which is consistent with God’s nature, evil is that which is inconsistent with it. But you probably reject that. So what do you put in its place, and by what authority?

And I am left wondering why do believers shortchange themselves this much? Are they incapable of reason? Why would you defer to a book written by superstitious herders on how to relate with your neighbour? Is it that bad? Are Christians so handicapped?

I am not trying to have a certain mode of acting forced on anyone. I don’t posses that much influence. Beyond the people who read this blog and my social circle, I am not known anywhere else. However, I believe human reason and nature is a sufficient guide. We may falter, but with new knowledge, we correct the mistakes of the past so that every generation improves on the knowledge it inherits.

In his Categorical imperative, Kant wrote,

Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law

He believed, and I agree, reason is sufficient to guide human behaviour.

Anyone who needs a bible or a religious book to behave, is handicapped and in need of sympathy.

I do not want to accept it that believers suffer this inadequacy. I want to believe they have the same mental capacities as the rest of us godless. And I want to believe they are better than their religious books. That, by virtue of their living in the present age, with the accumulated knowledge we have, they can do better than the 2000+ old books. But if they can’t, the more the pity.

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

84 thoughts on “what is it with believers?

  1. It is not hard to believe that morals and Jesus are not synonymous. Anything that harms another is wrong period.

    Wow I just covered murder, rape, lying, stealing, and ever commandment given to Christians and the entire moral compass of the bible with one moral sentence and it didn’t require Jesus, the bible or god to define it.

    “Anything that harms another is wrong.”

    Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      The Christian will ask you with whose authority do you arrive at that conclusion

      Liked by 1 person

      • My own. I don’t need god to tell me life is precious, nor that murder is wrong. I don’t need Jesus to tell me what is moral nor how to live a good life. Why? Because I have free will and the power of thought.

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        • makagutu says:

          Can you help me understand why Christians have a handicap regarding this issue?

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          • To much faith in a man made book and to little in themselves to make proper and right decisions perhaps.

            I say people handicap themselves believing they need a crutch. I know the things I can and can not do and have never used the things i can not as a handicap. I try and find a way around the things i can not do.

            Example: I was born deaf in a multilingual home. I learned sign and then learned to read lips in lakota and english. The fact I can not hear would not be a crutch to me. At times I actually wonder which of us is truly handicapped to be honest. I read lips even from across a room or through sound proof glass and hear perfectly in a crowd where for hearing people they miss all that or must yell to be heard or to hear,

            I don’t use a book as a crutch to define morals because i have personal responsibility and am fully capable of making rational, moral and informed decisions without a crutch.

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          • makagutu says:

            Maybe they need to have many books. One book seems, to me, to present an insurmountable handicap

            Liked by 1 person

          • No if they can’t think logically and with their own minds then multiple books would just be more confusing. I mean the one already contradicts itself on like every subject known to man from slavery to multiple wives to morals to war. It isn’t consistent in any measaage.

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          • makagutu says:

            I see your point. They wouldn’t know what to do with many books

            Liked by 1 person

          • Think of the logic of Christians like this and it’s all you need to know.

            “The Bible is the Word of God because God tells us it is… in the Bible.”

            Now you know why they need a book to tell them everything.

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          • makagutu says:

            I like the way you say it.
            One person said the believer believes everything they need to know is already covered in the bible. If it is true, it is in the bible. If the book you want them to read isn’t true, why should they read it?

            Liked by 1 person

  2. A Guy Without Boxers says:

    There are a number of believers (of the clergy variety) that have their heads so far up their rectums that their minds have become suffocated. However, my Sanctified friend, I agree with you. Most humans have the capacity to determine what is good and kind. I wholeheartedly agree with your premise! Much love and naked hugs! 🙂

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  3. Good post, and great questions. As I’ve stated before, the problem with christians, and their bible, is that, while getting morality from a holy book is a VERY reasonable way to live:) , one must first have the RIGHT holy book to get one’s morality from. Very clearly, the Koran is right, and the bible wrong. How do I know this? The Koran says so. Even the infidel christian will agree that if a holy book says something is so, it is. Thus, their problem is that they live in sin and follow a god, and a book, that isn’t real. Once the christian can explain logically and clearly why their book is right, and The Koran, the true word of God, isn’t, maybe I’ll listen to them. But, since the Koran VERY clearly states the christian god and its book are wrong, I doubt they will be able to do this.
    “The Koran is right because The Koran says so. That is THE most logical statement anyone serious about morality can, or ever will, make.” Queen Elizabeth the 1st, circa 1594

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  4. “I know that the Bible makes it pretty easy – good is probably best defined as that which is consistent with God’s nature, evil is that which is inconsistent with it. ”

    which is a lie told by Chistians who haven’t read their bible. I am glad that the author is quite sure that slavery is just peachy keen. I do hope that one of these people will agree on being my slave. I can even go their god one better and do my best not to kill them.

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  5. shelldigger says:

    I’d say the golden rule is a fairly universal guideline, in that if you do unto others as you would not want done to you, you are quickly approaching evil.

    Now what is it with people who are so damned hung up on authority? I do not base my judgements of what someone says or does on their supposed authority, but on what they actually have to say or do.

    Being subjugate to authority is willful slavery of mind and body.

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  6. >>> “Anyone who needs a bible or a religious book to behave, is handicapped and in need of sympathy.”

    … and help.

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  7. The whole rhetoric about “the nature of god” is beyond gross misunderstanding. Christianity is inherently guilty of having utterly imposed a flawed system of categorizing moral and ethical concepts from angles purely pragmatic. Because from the biblical angle alone, the nature of god encompasses both pure evil and pure good, with everything else in between. This is how Christianity could have afforded to become a moral and ethical judge of all human actions, simply by proclaiming god’s right to inflict evil in the name of “divine justice” and soteriological necessity. Most religions have been developed in order to provide an intangible justification for the restrictive and punitive policies of ruling classes and individuals, for the comfortable suppression of commonsense reasoning.

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  8. Those who learn to navigate by looking at the stars will need no compass; and thus will not be misled by the lies of faulty ones.

    Like

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