Here we are, having a conversation on freewill and I get asked
And how do you decide what behavior is “good”, and thus ought to be pushed on everyone? I know that the Bible makes it pretty easy – good is probably best defined as that which is consistent with God’s nature, evil is that which is inconsistent with it. But you probably reject that. So what do you put in its place, and by what authority?
And I am left wondering why do believers shortchange themselves this much? Are they incapable of reason? Why would you defer to a book written by superstitious herders on how to relate with your neighbour? Is it that bad? Are Christians so handicapped?
I am not trying to have a certain mode of acting forced on anyone. I don’t posses that much influence. Beyond the people who read this blog and my social circle, I am not known anywhere else. However, I believe human reason and nature is a sufficient guide. We may falter, but with new knowledge, we correct the mistakes of the past so that every generation improves on the knowledge it inherits.
In his Categorical imperative, Kant wrote,
Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law
He believed, and I agree, reason is sufficient to guide human behaviour.
Anyone who needs a bible or a religious book to behave, is handicapped and in need of sympathy.
I do not want to accept it that believers suffer this inadequacy. I want to believe they have the same mental capacities as the rest of us godless. And I want to believe they are better than their religious books. That, by virtue of their living in the present age, with the accumulated knowledge we have, they can do better than the 2000+ old books. But if they can’t, the more the pity.
It is not hard to believe that morals and Jesus are not synonymous. Anything that harms another is wrong period.
Wow I just covered murder, rape, lying, stealing, and ever commandment given to Christians and the entire moral compass of the bible with one moral sentence and it didn’t require Jesus, the bible or god to define it.
“Anything that harms another is wrong.”
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The Christian will ask you with whose authority do you arrive at that conclusion
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My own. I don’t need god to tell me life is precious, nor that murder is wrong. I don’t need Jesus to tell me what is moral nor how to live a good life. Why? Because I have free will and the power of thought.
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Can you help me understand why Christians have a handicap regarding this issue?
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To much faith in a man made book and to little in themselves to make proper and right decisions perhaps.
I say people handicap themselves believing they need a crutch. I know the things I can and can not do and have never used the things i can not as a handicap. I try and find a way around the things i can not do.
Example: I was born deaf in a multilingual home. I learned sign and then learned to read lips in lakota and english. The fact I can not hear would not be a crutch to me. At times I actually wonder which of us is truly handicapped to be honest. I read lips even from across a room or through sound proof glass and hear perfectly in a crowd where for hearing people they miss all that or must yell to be heard or to hear,
I don’t use a book as a crutch to define morals because i have personal responsibility and am fully capable of making rational, moral and informed decisions without a crutch.
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Maybe they need to have many books. One book seems, to me, to present an insurmountable handicap
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No if they can’t think logically and with their own minds then multiple books would just be more confusing. I mean the one already contradicts itself on like every subject known to man from slavery to multiple wives to morals to war. It isn’t consistent in any measaage.
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I see your point. They wouldn’t know what to do with many books
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Think of the logic of Christians like this and it’s all you need to know.
“The Bible is the Word of God because God tells us it is… in the Bible.”
Now you know why they need a book to tell them everything.
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I like the way you say it.
One person said the believer believes everything they need to know is already covered in the bible. If it is true, it is in the bible. If the book you want them to read isn’t true, why should they read it?
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There are a number of believers (of the clergy variety) that have their heads so far up their rectums that their minds have become suffocated. However, my Sanctified friend, I agree with you. Most humans have the capacity to determine what is good and kind. I wholeheartedly agree with your premise! Much love and naked hugs! 🙂
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I think they need to get their heads outta their rectum every few hours to get fresh air
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LOL! Impossible! They’re in too deep! Much love and many naked hugs!
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In that case, their cases are irredeemable
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Good post, and great questions. As I’ve stated before, the problem with christians, and their bible, is that, while getting morality from a holy book is a VERY reasonable way to live:) , one must first have the RIGHT holy book to get one’s morality from. Very clearly, the Koran is right, and the bible wrong. How do I know this? The Koran says so. Even the infidel christian will agree that if a holy book says something is so, it is. Thus, their problem is that they live in sin and follow a god, and a book, that isn’t real. Once the christian can explain logically and clearly why their book is right, and The Koran, the true word of God, isn’t, maybe I’ll listen to them. But, since the Koran VERY clearly states the christian god and its book are wrong, I doubt they will be able to do this.
“The Koran is right because The Koran says so. That is THE most logical statement anyone serious about morality can, or ever will, make.” Queen Elizabeth the 1st, circa 1594
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Hahaha Destroyed that book first and all the Christians jumped on and agreed not knowing their book is next with the same fierceness. Of course I haven’t yet gotten back to it but it is in the works.
Wanna read about the Quran?
Yup that one is just as perfect…
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Ya just gotta love the Koran. It’s as up front and honest about its B.S. as one can get in a “perfect” holy book. I’ve several favorite quotes I pull from it to aggravate christians when they quote their book to me. One good turn deserves another and if holy books are valid because they say so right in them, then the Koran must be right about christianity. 🙂 Here’s one of my favorite quotes from it: 5:73: “Surely, disbelievers are those who said: “Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity).” But there is no god but Allâh. And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.”
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The Christian will have to show why the Koran can’t be taken as true since it says so in its pages.
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I find giving them that challenge to be far more satisfying than discussing atheism with them. Before I can believe in their bullshit, they must first convince me why their bullshit is right and other bullshit is just, well, bullshit.
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They must tell us why their bs is the right bs before we start discussing atheism. I will remember this
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Here is what a Christian has told me
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“It’s pure evil, and it’s Satan’s polar opposite to Christianity.” Here’s what The Koran says about christians:
3:118: “O you who believe! Take not as your helpers or friends those outside your religion since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the verses if you understand.”
I LOVE this! christians calling Islam and Muslims evil and Muslims saying the same of christians. Just awesome to me. Neither have proof or evidence of any of this shit, but they’ll condemn each other for not believing in the “right” bullshit. Just awesome. Proves, to me, the utter insanity that is religion.
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He deleted my comments.
He said he wanted to teach me about his savior and I asked if the saviour is that dead Jew. I think he didn’t know jeebus was Jewish
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He probably hates Jews, too. What I got out of Bart Ehrman’s book on Jeebus, is that, if indeed he did live, he was very, very, very, very, very, very, very, much a JEWISH apocalyptic preacher. To be a follower of Jeebus, one first had to become a Jew and follow Jewish law. Paul let gentiles in and made up his own shit about Jesus. That Jesus, Paul’s Jesus, never existed. And this is the Jeebus your comment deleting pal believes in. Utter stupidity. $Amen$ 🙂
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In deed, the jeebus of the gospels is a Jew all the way.
The jeebus of Paul is of his own making.
This guy can’t tell his left hand from the right in rapid succession
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https://levifollowsjesus.wordpress.com/2015/05/18/atheism-is-it-even-possible/ there is the link in case you are interested
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Getting christians to expose the hatred in their hearts toward those who do not accept their bullshit lie of a religion warms my heart and makes me smile. Many christians wouldn’t be as honest as the fellow you quoted here. I give him kudos for that, at least. No other religion bothers me as much as christianity. That’s probably because I have it crammed down my throat daily here in America. Our politicians wear it on their sleeves like an impenetrable suit of armor. It is a disgusting shame-built belief system that denies humans dignity while it strips them of self worth and empathy. If there is an “evil” in America, it is christianity. Truly, no greater virus to human decency exists here. $Amen$ $Hallelujah$ and praise be to Allah, the one, true god. 🙂
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believe it or not Islam is worse… /lol
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Oh, I know. I just toss it out there at christians to bother them. I likes ta bother christians. I be evil that way. Well, my eating of christian infants is probably considered evil by some too, but DAMN, them thar infants are SOOOO tasty. 🙂 Islam, and the Koran, are more honest about their disgust of non-believers. I kinda admire that about them. If yer gonna hate, then by golly be honest about it! 🙂
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Don’t hide the hate. Go out there and hate. That is the good book for you
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Makes you feel all warm and loving inside, doesn’t it?
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I should try it some day
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Farther I get from religion, the more human and warm I feel. 🙂
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It does happen. You realise we are within together. That everyone we have ever known has lived here. All the experience you have had to this point have been earthly. Then all life become united and you become a part of the chain
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Not a chain a circle 🙂
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Sorry, Michelle, circle
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$Amen$ to that. 🙂
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True they are more honest in their hatred of all nonbelievers, women and people of alternate lifestyles.
I mean ISIS is Islam!
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Indeed. I mean, if you’re gonna be a hate-filled, misogynistic bigot, just BE one. Why bother trying to be P.C. about it? I’ll still find you to be a despicable a-hole, but at least I can admire your honesty for saying what you really are.
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/sniffle sniffle
a-hole /waaahhh
j/k I know you didn’t me you=me or whatever. Yes I’d rather know this person is an ahole flat out then have them pretend they are all holy and righteous while demonstrating with words or actions they are aholes.
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Oh, I most definitely wasn’t referring to you. I was speaking metaphorically. 🙂
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It is a religion of peace
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Religion of pieces?
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That’s more like it.
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Had not thought of it like that but that makes a lot more sense. Could it be we have misunderstood them?
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Yes we did. They said religion of piece and we thought oh peace is nice..
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So I saw this Christian blog 16 ways to love yourself again.. I replied and it was delete #1 STOP BEING A SELF HATING SINFUL AWFUL PERSON KNOWN AS A CHRISTIAN #2 Repeat #1 15 more times!
They deleted it…hahaha
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Haha hahaha.
Maybe you should have stopped at stop being a christian though I am not sure they would have got the meaning
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They say that, but, then again, christains claim to be all about LOVE and we know how full of shit that is.
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One is a religion of peace and they kill whoever disagrees. Another is a religion of love and they hate everyone who disagrees.
1984 all over again
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I think every place where religion dominates in the public square, your goose is cooked.
Look at its effects in Saudi. It’s a crazy mind fuck
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Unassailable logic right there.
The Koran says the bible is wrong, the bible is wrong.
I thought the right holy book was the Vedas. It is older 🙂
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You’re thinking of “The Vegas”. It’s a guide book to the best casinos and whore houses in and near Los Vegas, Nevada. The best saying from it is this one: “What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.” The Vegas, 22:67
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Forgive my poor spelling. That is the book I meant
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All is forgiven. For as it says in The Vegas, “When mistakes are made, get drunk, and all will be forgiven and/or forgotten.” The Vegas, 66:56
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Haha
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“I know that the Bible makes it pretty easy – good is probably best defined as that which is consistent with God’s nature, evil is that which is inconsistent with it. ”
which is a lie told by Chistians who haven’t read their bible. I am glad that the author is quite sure that slavery is just peachy keen. I do hope that one of these people will agree on being my slave. I can even go their god one better and do my best not to kill them.
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club, one wonders whether these people read their bibles before they make such asinine comments?
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It’s not hard to see that many of the don’t. I’ve been discussing religion with “Joe”, a Catholic, and he has said that he doesn’t need to know what his bible says. This is, unsurprisingly, his excuse when it comes to discussing the contradictions in the bible.
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I guess Joe also believes everything in the bible even though he doesn’t know what it is
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yep. it’s like watching a bunch of people having a book club, no one reading the book and everyone claiming how wonderful the book is and how it says “x” and “y”.
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in deed
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I’d say the golden rule is a fairly universal guideline, in that if you do unto others as you would not want done to you, you are quickly approaching evil.
Now what is it with people who are so damned hung up on authority? I do not base my judgements of what someone says or does on their supposed authority, but on what they actually have to say or do.
Being subjugate to authority is willful slavery of mind and body.
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maybe slavery isn’t so bad. The bible says it’s ok to submit to your master as you would submit to a
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…which strikes me as damned convenient.
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Christians have slaves. The men call them wives. The wife must do his bidding and be submissive. Slavery is alive and well in Christianity..
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How could I forget this, when we have constant updates on this type of thinking on Violet’s blog.
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Yes, yes it is. A common theme among most religions. I cannot adequately express my disdain for this trait among religious types.
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nowhere in the bible do they say they want to inconvenience anyone, maybe the rich only
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>>> “Anyone who needs a bible or a religious book to behave, is handicapped and in need of sympathy.”
… and help.
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All the help they can get, I think
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The whole rhetoric about “the nature of god” is beyond gross misunderstanding. Christianity is inherently guilty of having utterly imposed a flawed system of categorizing moral and ethical concepts from angles purely pragmatic. Because from the biblical angle alone, the nature of god encompasses both pure evil and pure good, with everything else in between. This is how Christianity could have afforded to become a moral and ethical judge of all human actions, simply by proclaiming god’s right to inflict evil in the name of “divine justice” and soteriological necessity. Most religions have been developed in order to provide an intangible justification for the restrictive and punitive policies of ruling classes and individuals, for the comfortable suppression of commonsense reasoning.
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You have been missed
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Me too;-))
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Those who learn to navigate by looking at the stars will need no compass; and thus will not be misled by the lies of faulty ones.
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unless they misinterpret what they read from the stars
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Then they might as well be religious
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In that case, they can’t get lost. Every star they see is the right one
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Except the ones to their left. Left stars can never be right stars. 🙂
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Haha. There is a lot of wordplay in this statement. Either way, I agree
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I guess if you turned around and faced the other way, left stars would then be right stars making them right and the left ones wrong. One must be aware of the direction one is facing if one wishes to always be right. Right?
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Right. Direction is very important
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Who needs a compass god is in COMPLETE control. So just walk that way and if god wants you to find something he will make you find it.
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I should be able to have a few words with this god fellow. I want to mark out the path I want to follow
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