What do you think


Of a woman who after having passed through some handling by soldiers said

God be praised, that once in my life I have had my fill without sin.

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

43 thoughts on “What do you think

  1. mike and brandy says:

    confused… where might I ask is that quote from? -mike

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  2. If her “passing through” several soldiers was consensual, I say, good for her. However, I doubt it was, and I’m betting this phrase was written by a man, or men, to justify the rape of women. “Ya all see, they really, deep down, likes it when we here men-folk just do with ’em as we please. Why, they be waitin’ fer us ta take ’em all rough like. Dats how dey likes it, and dis here little quote juz go ta show ya how true this be. Hee Haw!!!”

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  3. From what I gather, its choosing to die rather than go against their religion or honor. Let me know if you got the same interpretation from The Complete Essays of Michel de Montaigne.

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  4. mike and brandy says:

    seems it was an ‘encouragement’ to the faithful in the face of martyrdom for Christ. wow. you’re right. had to have been written by a man or at least a self loathing and delusional Christian woman.
    although there are many of the Latter currently and in the past, my best bet is on the former. A man must have written it to encourage women to ‘give it up’ willingly rather than give Him up against their wills.
    church history is simply amazing.
    -mike

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  5. A Guy Without Boxers says:

    More than likely, she had too much wine! LOL! Love and naked hugs my Nairobi brother! 馃檪

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  6. fojap says:

    I have just read the essay and it’s not clear that he heard that from the woman at first hand. “…a good story I learned in Toulouse about a woman…” That would seem to me that he’s hearing it from someone else.

    There are too many question marks around this. For starters, it’s in the context of when it is better to kill oneself.
    “Pelagia and Sophronia, both canonised, the former threw herself into the river with her mother and sisters to avoid the violence of some soldiers, the latter also killed herself to avoid the violence of the Emperor Maxentius…”
    The implication, if I understand correctly, is that Pelagia and Sophronia would not have had to kill themselves because no one would have blamed them. The veracity of the story of Sophronia seems to be in doubt anyway.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=GSh4dXugyVUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=rufinus+of+aquileia+and+the+historia+ecclesiastica&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5pCYVenJEIj2-QH95KKgCA&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=rufinus%20of%20aquileia%20and%20the%20historia%20ecclesiastica&f=false

    Secondly, attitudes towards sex in general and sexual assault in particular were so different in his day.

    Also, it strikes me that women would have been unable to speak freely about how they might feel about being assaulted, so it would be doubtful if many men at all had a very good idea of it. For instance, he starts that section saying, “Of violences offered to the conscience, that against the chastity of woman is, in my opinion, most to be avoided, forasmuch as there is a certain pleasure naturally mixed with it, and for that reason the dissent therein cannot be sufficiently perfect and entire, so that the violence seems to be mixed with a little consent of the forced party.”

    Having myself been tied up and whipped with a belt till welts were raised and my back was bleeding and anally raped, forcefully, without lubrication, and bleeding as a consequence from that as well, and this done by a man who had expressed an interest in marrying me and who told me that he wanted to throw acid on my face when I said I had no interest in him, I feel quite confident that Montaigne hasn’t a clue what he’s talking about on this subject in which he is, at best, out of his depth.

    Also, the notion of raped women killing themselves or women killing themselves to avoid being raped seems to happen so infrequently as to belong more in the realm of myth than reality.

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    • makagutu says:

      I agree with you Montaigne is out of his depths when he talks about rape. I mentioned to Victoria, that whereas I have liked his essays, that was quite a wrong thing to say.
      And I am sorry you had to go through that. I am truly sorry

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      • fojap says:

        That was over twenty years ago.

        Sometimes, I think it was fortunate that I had a lot of very good experiences with men/boys before I had any bad ones. It really didn’t color my attitudes towards men at all. In fact, it mainly taught me to trust my instincts. I had never liked him but we had mutual friends in common who were always telling me that I should try to be nicer to him. So, it didn’t have any of the major emotional fallout many people report, beyond getting me in arguments with a friend who continued to try to “fix us up” and would invite me places without telling me she had invited him as well.

        Although this happened in my twenties, we all had gone to college together. He raped another friend from the same social group. Why some many tolerated him is something I never understood.

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    • Charity Burke says:

      Fojap, that’s horrific! I am so incredibly sorry that was done to you. It’s hard for me to imagine a human being doing that to another person, but I know it happens more than any of us will ever know.

      I am truly sorry.

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  7. Sonel says:

    How someone like that can still believe in their ‘god’ is beyond me. If there was a ‘god’ he/she would not have allowed it.

    How are you my friend? Cold this side but doing well, 馃榾
    Have a great Sunday. 鈾

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  8. shelldigger says:

    At first glance it sounds like said woman finally got a good fucking, that she didn’t have to feel guilty for, because it wasn’t due to her own sinful desire.

    But yes, I agree with most of you, it sounds like after the fact apologetics, by someone hoping to whitewash a rape.

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