New atheists and morality


Godless Cranium has written a post, which I will read after I finish writing mine for fear that should I read his first, I may find it so good I will be unable to go ahead. It is a response to Lyle who has written the amazing new atheists.

In his brief essay, The Necessity of Atheism, Percy Bysshe Shelley writes, and I paraphrase that ignorance of nature created the gods, its knowledge will be the death of gods. If this has not been true at any time in our history, then it is more so now.

Lyle starts his post thus

I am truly amazed at people that claim they are atheist and then spent a great deal of their time talking about or even arguing about transcendental concepts like love, justices and truth.

and one wonders if these are not human terms? Anyone, as long as they are human, can use them. Or does Lyle intend to tell us there is only a special class of persons to whom love, justice and truth should matter?

He goes on

If there is no God, are these concept not just empty expressions? Why spent the time and effort to try to convince the theist or for that matter anyone that there is no God?ย  If there is no God, is not truth just a subjective term that has no real content?

I don’t speak for other atheists, but I am not busy trying to convince a theist there is no god. I already know and that is enough for me. What does god have to do with justice? Is Lyle telling us without his belief in a phantom, he will be robbing his neighbour, killing their pets? What does he mean by betting justice onย a god? And while he keeps throwing truth around, what does he mean by truth?

I don’t know how gods non-existence

would necessitate the complete remaking of everything, our language, our culture, values, civilization and in essences the very way we think about everything.

Is culture so dependent on god that if men stopped believing in some ghost, it would collapse? Hasn’t humanity progressed in spite of culture, religion and not because of it?

And he represents Nietzsche when he writes

We are talking about the world of Nietzsche, a world, which has gone beyond good and evil, a world of a mad man

for he( Nietzsche) dreamt of a higher man. He writes for the free spirit. Not held back by custom, by religion or dogma.

He asks

can mankind survive as man without the idea of God?

and I say a resounding yes. I hope also he recognizes, god is just an idea and one which hasn’t even been coherently defined. It means whatever the believer wants it to mean.

Someone said, and I paraphrase, all great ideas start as heresy and I find these words

For this reason I believe that atheism is the most dangers and destructive ideology in the world

by Lyle to capture the spirit of that quote. Yes, any idea that leads to a revolution in the way of thought is dangerous. It can’t be any other way. And Lyle has every reason to be scared. Religion cannot stand the assault of reason without transforming itself into something entirely different.

When he writes

Some may respond by saying that they feel religion is evil and that they are simply trying to do away with evil and replace it with something better. Well I would have to agree that some religion is evil but not because religion itself is evil but rather because there are evil men in religion.

I have to disagree. Religion is inherently harmful. No man is evil. It is judgement that makes it so, and this judgement is not on the person but on their actions rather consequences of their actions.

It is odd that the person berating atheists as being relativist[s]ย says

You might reply, because religion hurts people. My answer is, it has not hurt me,

Is a god necessary for one to know genocide is harmful or that war is? Is the believer so handicapped? Who ties their shoelaces?

That the Nazis thought exterminating the Jews reasonable doesn’t make it so. I don’t want to be exterminated. In the words of John Donne,

Each man’s death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee

I must think theists very ignorant of the church history. When the church had divine guidance, witches were burnt, men and women burnt at the stake and religious differences settled by crusades. As Arch would say, religion is trying to bring peace to a world torn apart by religion.

Anytime a theist brings up the reign of Stalin as a counterpoint to atheistic society, I am convinced the fellow has an IQ less than that of my shirt, and I mean no insult here. Stalin was for lack of a better word psycho. The religious represent about 58% of the Chinese population. The government is authoritarian. Nobody denies that the ruling party is atheistic. It’s faults are not, in my view, because it is atheistic but because it is authoritarian.

It is a fact that

The truth is that belief in God is as much a matter of the will as the intelligent.

and this explains why there are those who regardless of anything reason can show them, they would still believe in god.

I don’t want to go beyond here. It is no argument for the truth of religion that some intelligent person believed.

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

77 thoughts on “New atheists and morality

  1. Excellent post, my friend. As you well know, my sole reason for being an atheist is the menu. I LOVE eating infants, and, with my disbelief in the christian god, let’s not kid ourselves here, THAT’S exactly what Lyle means by “god”, I’ve gotten rid of all sense of morality. Thus, eating infants is now fine with me, and other atheists, too, should they choose to dine with me. Tonight, I’m going to Europe to poison christian wells there. Your free to join me. Afterword, I’m gonna dine on Lutheran toddlers in Germany. Ain’t nothin’ tastier than fresh Lutheran toddler straight from Germany. YUMMY!!!!! ATHEISM, ATHEISM!!! RA! RA! RA!! ATHEISM, ATHEISM!!! RA! RA!! RA!!! EAT A BABY, POISON A WELL!!!! RA! RA! RA!!!

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  2. When looking at the history of religion and morality, you find that they’ve changed their stance on a great many things. If these morals are objective, the church does a horrendous job of showing it. If anything, they tend to show the exact opposite – no matter what the book says, we determine our own morals and ethics.

    Good post. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Like

  3. Simple he fails at life.

    Truth as defined in the dictionary is something factually stated. Makagutu has a blog. That is truth, it is based on factual evidence and no god was needed to prove this truth.

    Can mankind survive without the “idea” of God? He admits it’s a man made “idea”. Interesting.

    “most dangers and destructive ideology in the world”

    Can the idiot tell that to a quarter billion dead native Americans with a straight face? It was his destructive ideology that murdered these same people in his gods name.

    Hitler was Christian and most of the SS were recruited from Christian churches.

    Belief in god is choice and faith. There is no proof nor fact. I admit I believe in a creator, a god. Mine has never exterminated people nor his word used to exterminate people. Every US president and leader was Christian and these same men oversaw the genocide of my people.

    By his own words because Stalin had no god therefore he was a bad man and therefore all athiests must be bad men. I can point to thousands of Christians who have done the same thing as Stalin just in a different part of the world. So because these men where Christian ergo all Christians are bad?

    He’d say no the person is bad. Ah ha! Now he just answered the Stalin claim too didn’t he.

    Yup IQ less than the thread holding your shirt together.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. john zande says:

    I thought ever so briefly about leaving a comment, then decided against it. Engaging the truly stupid is a true waste of time.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. I read a couple of the posts. It looks like he’s randomly deleting comments.

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  6. A Guy Without Boxers says:

    Excellent arguments, my Nairobi brother! Great post!

    There is no direct co-relationship between seeking justice and theism. At least as far as I can determine. Seeking justice is nothing more than searching for equal application under the law. Who’s law? The state, which is by nature separate from a belief system.

    Thank you! Love and naked hugs!

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  7. shelldigger says:

    Brillaint post Mak. Now I have to go back and read the comments. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Like

  8. I think hyper religious people are some of the most fu*ked up people in terms of their definition of morality- smh- don’t get me started its deeply personal ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜”
    I’m not atheist but I’m not religious- I’m not agnostic but I’m not gnostic lol…so that being said I’m somewhere in the middle of all this and from what I see is I would much rather hang out with an atheist than a hyper-theist ๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜„ morality is relative- its highly subjective and as we all know- religious folk make their “morals” to fit whatever campaign they are parading so yeah- screw em- I’m a common Jezebel to them anyway ๐Ÿ˜‚

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  9. Ron says:

    He’s right. Without Aphrodite, concepts such as love, beauty, desire, sex and pleasure are just empty expressions.

    Like

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