additional thoughts on previous post


In his response to SB, Lyle writes

I did not say a person without faith could not or does not understand The the transcendental concepts I spoke about. To the contrary the Bible says that God has written his law in everyone’s heart. However, if there was no deity to write those laws on humanity’s heart there would be no laws. In theology they call this natural law. The founding fathers believed in natural law and therefore could say that these truths are self evident. They were self evident because they were revealed by God to all men. That is all men. Unfortunately, the younger generation knows nothing about natural law and therefore finds the declaration and Constitution difficult to understand.

You sound like a civil person if you would like to continue a discussion I would be glad to do so. However, I am turning off the comments on my blog because of the language an the attitudes reflected by some of the new atheist which have responded to my blog. I have agreed to respond to a few, but I am not excited about it because most of their ideas are self assertions with no quotes from authorities In philosophy or science. They are an authority unto themselves. Such people no one can debate with nor take serious. if you would like to share send your blog.

Natural law is

a philosophy of law that is determined by nature, and so is universal. Classically, natural law refers to the use of reason to analyze human nature — both social and personal — and deduce binding rules of moral behavior from it.

It allows no room for the supernatural. It has nothing to do with gods. To claim natural law is given by god is a contradiction in terms. They are self-evident because they are derived from nature. A person feels pain, they don’t like it. They infer they shouldn’t inflict pain on others. No god is necessary. To posit a god is superfluous.

The world is a big place. It is bigger than the US of A. And anyone with an IQ greater than my shirt would know natural law was spoken of long before the American Declaration of Independence. I believe Thomas Aquinas wrote way before the founding of the US of A and he wrote on natural law as deriving from the nature of man. I think instead of Lyle saying the younger generation being clueless on natural, it is him that is clueless. And what have I to do with the declaration or constitution of the US. You have written a post about atheists and morality not American jurisprudence. These are not related topics.

It is true SB is very civil and polite. I try civility once in a while.

It is strange that a guy who is berating atheists is closing comments on his post because he doesn’t like what he is hearing. Stranger though is that only SB had commented by the time of writing this post. Unless of course he is referring to GC’s and my response.

And then he dismissed our responses by an appeal to authority! Our criticisms are not valid because we have not quoted a bible verse or a theologian! What nerve some believers have?

I make no apologies for being an authority unto myself. In the event you want me to quote an authority, just ask. I know they are not in short supply.

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

56 thoughts on “additional thoughts on previous post

  1. “…most of their ideas are self assertions with no quotes from authorities In philosophy or science.” Here’s a quote from an irrefutable authority, The Qur’an: 2:120: “Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you till you follow their religion. Say: “Verily, Islâmic Guidance is the only Guidance. And if you were to follow their desires after what you have received of Knowledge, then you would have against Allâh neither any protector nor helper.”]

    Here’s another:9:29: “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not Islam as the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

    Once again, the christian is proven a liar, a deceiver, and a blind fool through the use of his own criteria for supporting an argument. ‘Nuff said. You can close the comments now, Mak. 😀

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    • makagutu says:

      Comments have been closed. Anyone wishing to have this discussion can contact me by email :-P.
      I like the authority you quote. We should all be Muslims

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  2. Here’s a quote from Thomas Jefferson, one of our founding fathers and writers of our Constitution, on christianity:

    “Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

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    • makagutu says:

      Thanks for this second authority. Now I can tell Lyle Jefferson doesn’t agree with him. Thomas Paine called the believers blasphemers

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      • I’ve dozens of quotes by Jefferson on christianity. He most definitely did NOT think the U.S. was or should be a “christian” nation. Here’s another quote of his:
        “My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there.”
        -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816

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        • makagutu says:

          I am waiting for Lyle and his authority

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          • Lyle has crawled under a rock at this point. The idjit. One more Jefferson quote I like: “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.”
            -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
            Sure as fuck doesn’t sound like ole Tom was promoting a christian nation.

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          • makagutu says:

            I believe T. Paine was one of the founding fathers who is almost forgotten to history. He said among other things

            The christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun.

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          • Indeed. These guys were not about forming a Jesus state. Idjits like Lyle, who call for citations and research, need to do some actual research themselves. My detestation for the ugliness that is christianity and its oppressive, tyrannical, suppressive nature grows stronger every time I encounter a cowardly sandwich brain like Lyle. More and more I’m becoming an anti-theist. Thanks, Lyle.

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          • makagutu says:

            The believer believes that the bible is true and that settles it.
            How can one be so clueless?

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  3. shelldigger says:

    Read this again, “The founding fathers believed in natural law and therefore could say that these truths are self evident. They were self evident because they were revealed by God to all men.” I could just as well say “Some clueless know-it-all decided a long time ago that there is a natural law and it is from the dog. Therefore I find it completely believeable.” It is an excercise in confirmation bias.

    Then the ignorant appeal to authority. This one is a goner Mak. There is no rational debate here. The farce is strong with this one.

    Turning off comments is a sure sign of a coward who fears his belief is challenged. If faith were really a virtue, one need not worry about it being challenged. In the same way a cat covers its shit in the box, the faithful flee from rational inquiry. They don’t know why they do it, it just seems the right thing to do.

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    • makagutu says:

      Why close comments when only person has responded and you admit he is civil?

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      • shelldigger says:

        Running like a skittish dog when someone said “Boo!”

        The faithful are comfortable with the things they have been led to believe. After the rationalizing is done, the CD is firmly entrenched, and their minds have become part of the Borg collective, they care not for any disagreement. The Borg line is “resistance is futile.” The lines of the faithful are many, “Jesus saves.” “God bless.” “You are going to hell.”

        Little difference between the two really. Though you do hear of people that manage to break away from it. More power to them. The freedoms of accepting reality are many. One being we no longer, or simply need not, sacrifice our intellectual integrity for a con game.

        There is a whole ‘nuther world out there outside of religious belief to discover. Many know not of its existence. Many others would rather stand there with their heads buried up their arses.

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      • Because one is a coward and can’t withstand any kind of evidence that shows his personal version of Christianity is wrong.

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  4. john zande says:

    It’s always amusing when the apologist invents new meanings for things, structured just right to fit into their jaundiced worldview.

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  5. A Guy Without Boxers says:

    Good for you, my Nairobi brother! Great arguments and rebuttal (I hope that I spelled that correctly). It is apparent that the man likes to argue but entertains no dissenting views. Have a wonderful evening! Love and naked hugs! 🙂

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  6. “To the contrary the Bible says that God has written his law in everyone’s heart. ”

    The usual nonsense every theist claims. Alas, for Christians they have yet to show that their god exists, much less has done things like write what it wants in every human’s heart. Funny how even the Christians can’t agree on what that “law” is.

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