In a case that some of the goddites will claim persecution, a judge ruled in favour of a mother’s request that her 4 year old child be kept free from religious influence by the paternal grand parents who belong to the JW cult. The religious beliefs of the mother were not mentioned in the case.
The ruling[pdf]
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Random thoughts 
Good for the judge. Freedom from religion is, really, the only way true freedom of religion can exist. Not the thing christians want to hear, but true, nonetheless.
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no, they don’t want to hear it.
they want to feed the children the nonsense so they are unable to move away from it when they are of age
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Imagine how fast religions would die out if parents and society had to wait until kids were 18 to attempt indoctrination. If only.
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if only…
i think only the really stupid would be religious
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Man, do I like that idea!
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Reblogged this on godlessaspie.
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Can we all repeat, PRECEDENT! Sing it to the air: PRECEDENT! PRECEDENT! PRECEDENT!
That is one HUGE leap for mankind.
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I hope others would emulate him.
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They can now… PRECEDENT! 🙂
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you see this happen in that place called the bible belt? I doubt it completely
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The Law knows no borders 😉
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John you are talking about people whose judges have made religious exemptions for vaccinations and seeking medical care because the child’s parents belonged to this or that congregation
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I know, I know… but this precedent can now be cited by the first judge who might hear a similar case. That’s to say, he can simply point to this case and say, “They did it, and I have no reason to doubt his/her reading of the Law.”
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well, i so hope. The things you read coming from the US of A are disheartening
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John, our new PM has campaigned to legalize marijuana here – I figure if that happens, and a Republichristian gov’t should happen in 2016, I’ll have a host of new neighbours from the States! 😉
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Australia did the same this week, too! And Oz has a Conservative government at the moment… A conservative government now minus dickhead Tony Abbott 🙂
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how could fine fellows such as you guys give the world Ken Ham?
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Ken Ham’s the best gift Australia’s ever given me. Why, just yesterday I sent them a box of chocolates to thank them for it.
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hahaha.
you are a great guy
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I can’t imagine Ken Ham, with his outlandish ideas, getting much of an audience in Australia. Obviously, he went to the place where other like-minded (I’ll be kind here, and not use any euphemisms) individuals thrived. .. and I don’t imagine Australia brags about his heritage. .. .
Oh, and John, I meant that I was in Australia when Tony got the boot. 🙂
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Ken Ham went to Kentucky and was welcomed home among like minded
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That’s a fair question, and I hope to start a Royal Commission to get to the bottom of that question…
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there is need for one and urgently
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I was there when he got ‘ousted’. . . 🙂
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Oh, you lucky thing! We shouldn’t gloat, but he was a horrible human being.
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I support legalization of marijuana. In fact why the hell was it criminalized in the first place?
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In the babble belt, there’s pretty much only “god’s” law. It is surreal down there. I’ve been hearing more talk of Southern states wanting to pull out of the Union, again, over religious and racist issues. The South is a very scary place.
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my concerns exactly
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Let them go. PLEASE, for all your sakes, let them go.
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Hi Mak! That case was here in Canada, out in BC. Smart judge and good for him, although there was a precedent to follow – also with another JW case.
Here in Canada medical staff can overrule the ‘religious beliefs’ of the parents and order blood transfusions, as well.
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hi Carmen hope you have been well. I keep checking my mail hoping for one from you 😦
Oh yes and I am hoping the same could just be read by judges across the border
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Heck! I thought the case might have been across the border. Can hope. 🙂
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I would have been pleasantly surprised if it were anywhere in the US of A
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stunned and startled and speechless is more like it
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@inspired –
I tried to comment on your blog yesterday but it got ‘eaten’ — don’t know what happened. Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I slapped the desk on that one, my good fellow! . . .huge grin. .. 🙂
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Yes. Another person had that problem. No idea what’s up with that. I’ll notify WP. It doesn’t happen to everyone, so it’s odd.
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I also wonder if many people here in Canada view the JW’s as a cult, more so than any other religion. Since I was introduced to this idea at University (suggested by a Philosophy professor), I have often felt that others had this same perspective. For instance, if you look in the papers, the only ‘religion’ you’ll read ads for to get ‘deprogrammed’ is the Jehovah’s Witness. When you start reading their literature, and take a look through their (per)version of the Bible, one wonders.
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I consider all of them cults with differing real estate
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Well, I think of Jehovah’s Witness, in particular, as a Doomsday Cult. I have had many bright, lovely teens in my classes over the years, and I have felt so bad for them – higher education is not promoted at all. Indeed, it is discouraged. 😦
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in a way they are all doomsday some more pronounced than others
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Makagutu, in what way are they all doomsday cults?
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Most are waiting for the world to end and their gods will take control.
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Mak, your response to Barry –
“Most are waiting for the world to end and their gods will take control” might also be followed up by this –
Excellent piece.
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John’s post is so spot on
There is a talk by Hirsi too on the same, I will get you the link.
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I like how the principle was expressed that children have a right to beneficial parenting rather than the parents have a right to force their interests onto a child. That’s definitely the opposite perspective of what is in the United States.
Theoretically it’s possible to get similar rulings here in the States because the standard – the best interests of the child – is similar.
However, I also think that the result would have been different in the case if it was the parent doing the indoctrinating instead of the grandparents.
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I think I agree with you that the case would be different if the parent was the one doing the indoctrination. Most likely there would be no case
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All this reminds me of that case last year involving the Canadian girl who was allowed to move to Florida so she could pursue religious healing. It’s the opposite of the one you linked above. And that case couldn’t have been clearer; the child’s religious beliefs, as imprinted upon her by her parents, got her killed.
While I’m happy for the little girl being protected from her grandparents, I think there still is a lot more room for improvement in the law on this.
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How do you deal with a case where it is the parent doing the indoctrination? Is it the child’s interest to be fed religion
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That’s a very good question, and my understanding of family law is very limited. However, most often courts look at a standard appropriately called Best Interests of the Child. Religion in and of itself is not something that would cause a parent to lose custody. It would require specific practices in order to get custodial arrangements changed.
The reason why the grandparents weren’t allowed unsupervised visits is because they kept violating agreements with the child’s mother, and they were using the child as a human shield to promote their indoctrination (i.e., “the child wants to learn about it”).
Furthermore, you’d have to get the parents to disagree on the religious indoctrination. Most often, that’s not going to happen unless the church in question is abusing the child.
Realistically speaking, it would take a massive shift in how people view teaching religion to the young to get it to be seen as harmful in courts. They’re notoriously conservative institutions, and if they can make any assumption to keep parents with their children, they will.
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It seems ludicrous to me that the grandparents have ANY say at all in this.
As for cults, I agree with Noel, all religions are cults with varying real estate. Christianity (JWs call it Christendom), no matter the denomination, is nothing but a cult of the dead.
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their son does zilch in the kids life! How arrogant can these people be?
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Just finished reading the ruling; that’s pretty serious stuff. Frightening – arguing for the right to persecute others with your beliefs. WoW.
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Those grandparents need help
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I’m with JZ, precedent! We can only hope reason edges out superstitous inanity across all cultures.
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I hear Donald Trump wants to be Precedent. Personally, I hate the guy.
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If Americans choose that guy, they deserve what they are getting. How can anybody in his right mind consider such a guy even for a split second?
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Unfortunately, far too many Americans are not in their right mind. Trump won’t win. He’s a gas bag with a shit load of money so the media climb all over him to listen to his racist, bigoted ranting. Sad, really. Very sad.
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Very sad
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They have no right minds
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He has bad hairday all days
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Trump is already a precedent, just not the kind he wants to be.
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haha,
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I hope so too
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[…] I’m writing about this because of a question posed by Mak in the comments of this post: […]
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