if John Baker is to believed is the life of the godless. Because of limited intelligence he is unable to see how others can find fulfillment in a life without gods. Because a person believes that at the grave, all this ends, such a person should not love, laugh, draw or enjoy music. Life is only grand if you will live past the grave. Don’t help others, they will die and that shall be forgotten all this ignoring the other very clear point that helping someone makes their life here bearable and sometimes, just sometimes, dignified. How does the promise of a heaven with gold do to the life of a poor person here apart from filling them with false hopes?
His next qualm is that people are not getting indoctrinated enough. They also don’t get to hate enough gays. He writes
be another reminder to parents to be diligent in training their children to stand uncompromisingly on the Word of God and in equipping them to defend the Christian faith
which in intelligent speak is parents should indoctrinate their children and do it well they never get to reason out of stupidity superstition.
Caroline tells us naturalists are incapable of love. She writes
It would mean the depths of emotion that consume a man’s thoughts of his beloved and drive him to do anything for her, or the lengths a mother will go to care for and protect her child are merely the outworking of chemical reactions in the brain. Nothing more. It would mean that the supreme goodness we attach to the concept of real love doesn’t stick. In the survival of the fittest, why should a quality that seeks another’s good be preferable to selfishness?
At least the naturalist grounds love in the workings of the brain. She on the other hand grounds it in a superstitious, transcendent other. Why is the naturalists idea treated with so much disdain? Is it because it is logical and reasonable?
And it seems to me she hasn’t read much on the subject either, because then she wouldn’t write
I believe we all, consciously or subconsciously, recognize the transcendent nature of love. And I believe this points to the existence of a loving, transcendent God.
because this entry in SEP, would show her statement to be wrong. And no, it doesn’t follow that because a feeling is irrational it points to god. That, my friends, is bad reasoning.
Her conclusion that
Love. We can’t even comprehend it in its fullness. And we can’t reduce it to a material reality. It transcends time, and space, and matter. It is spiritual. It is of God.
unfortunately tells us really nothing.
Thank goodness there are christians like these to set me right. Jeez! I almost wasted my days thinking that their particular take on their particular invisible dude wasn’t true. But, with such outstanding arguments as the ones they present, who can NOT see how true their particular take on their particular god is? Also, believing in their particular take on their particular god proves all other takes on all other particular gods are wrong, and how can that not be a positive, bright, cheerful thing? Oh, being convinced their particular take on their particular god also allows them to hate gays. If that doesn’t swell your heart with love and joy, then you truly must be dead inside. $Amen$
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I tell you these people have great arguments. You can’t beat them
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This is all balmy. Why can’t you love something magnificently and truly without believing a god was responsible for creating it. Having just written a post that mentions slavery, I can only say that some of the irredemiably cruelest and most wicked violations committed by one set of humans on another set of humans was perpetrated by people who smugly considered themselves Christians, and believed those they abused inferior beings, and therefore deserving of slavery.
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hey Tish,
the believer has a ready answer, those were not true believers even though they believed they were doing their god’s bidding
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it’s the religion of circular and self-justifying arguments – impermeable to reason
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Two things: I did not write the article, Ken Ham the Head of Answers in Genesis wrote the article, you may want to review that the article is a linked article, and change who you are attributing this article to.
Secondly I believe you missed the point of the article, and that is: unless you have a basis/cause/origin for reason and logic, which Atheism does not, then there is no point in having reason and logic in life! And to be more precise there is no ability to have any kind of coherent thoughts, actions etc.
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you wrote the commentary at the end asking your readers to either buy or read some books, in agreement with what Ken Ham wrote.
Unless you didn’t read my post or are daft, atheism is a lack of belief in deities. That deities exist or not tells us nothing about holding a coherent thought which, while you are a believer in gods, you seem to lack
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1. Atheism addresses only one proposition: belief in the existence of deities. Nothing more, nothing less.
2. Logic and reason are cognitive tools used to process information and navigate life.
How does the first invalidate or undermine the second?
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Ron are you sure you will get an answer? Why do some people mix these issues up?
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Please do show the reason and logic that indicates that the god you worship, not some vague nonsense that could apply to any god, exists.
The reason and logic that supports the conclusion of atheism (no need to capitalize it) is that there is no evidence for the existence of your god nor for the supposed events in a book claimed to be a true account of the past e.g. the Bible. There is plenty of evidence that other things entirely happened, not what the bible claims. For example, Christians can’t agree on when the Noah flood happened, and for every date they do claim, no evidence can be found for this supposed occurrence.
Now, I am guessing that you do not believe the claims of other religions than your own. Why don’t you believe them? Is it because they have no evidence to support their claims? If this is so, why do you assume I should believe your similar claims?
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No no, it all makes sense! Likewise, oceans prove that Poseidon is real. A naturalistic view would reduce them to merely large puddles of salt water, nothing more. It would mean all of their majesty and power we have seen in the ocean wouldn’t stick.
Oceans. We can’t even comprehend them in their fullness. And we can’t reduce them to a material reality. They transcends time, and space, and matter. They are spiritual. Oceans are of Poseidon!
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Beautiful
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No way, man! Oceans are of Aquaman! He’s REAL! Poseidon is made up. DC comics tells us this.
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Aquaman? Pfft! You follow a false superhero.
Sub-Mariner&mdasn;the Marvelous progeny of an Atlantean goddess and human male—is the real deal.
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I stand corrected, sir. Namor IS the man. Love to see him in a Marvel super hero movie. Some kinda tie up with the rights is preventing that right now, but one day, maybe. 🙂
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So far as I know, Aquaman and Namor have only gone as deep as light (comics in complete darkness wouldn’t be all that exciting to read). Sunlight only goes about 1 kilometre down at the best of times, everything below is shrouded in complete darkness. The ocean can get approximately 11 kilometres deep. Your “superheroes” are but amusing jesters that have learned to dance relatively well through a minuscule part of the divine medium that is the oceans. Poseidon IS the medium.
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Ah, but Namor and Aquaman have under water lights that shine right through the old blokes privy parts illuminating the sea floor and the McDonald’s that’s been down there for centuries. Besides, Namor looks way better in trunks than Poseidon does. Water, by itself, looks kinda, well, kinda wet when dressed in trunks. The ladies don’t much go for that these days.
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That’s right, lesser being that they are, they require lights. And as far as ladies are concerned, it isn’t the look of the trunks, it’s the motion of the ocean. Given the infallibility of popular expressions, it’s clear that Poseidon is exactly synonymous with sexual prowess and gratification.
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Still, the dude’s awfully salty. Besides, too many jelly fish are in the guy. Icky.
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You got the jellyfish? You gotta treat Poseidon better. Give him a little scratch under the beard, he loves it. If you do it just right, he may give you some electric eel action. It tingles sooooo good.
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I’ll remember that next time Namor and I are in the Mid-Atlantic saving submarines. Thanks. 🙂
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Namor for the win. 🙂 I like them tall, dark and handsome.
Although, Aquaman can supposedly control Cthullu.
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Yeah, but he was in the Super Friends so he loses points. Go Namor!
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To makagutu:
Read the article AGAIN! Ken Ham is referencing the original interview with Bart Campolo, and it is Ken Ham who asks readers to either buy or read some books, in agreement with what he wrote.
Also it is the highest form of self blindness to say that Atheism is the sole Intellectual approach to understanding the Universe! Because when you get down to the basic core of Atheism, its definition is that there is no reason for anything! All is purposeless Chaos! And if that is so then nothing has ANY meaning at all including any kind of rational argument that an Atheist puts forward!
For an Atheist to put forward a rational argument means that the Atheist has to borrow concepts from non-Atheist ideologies.
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For an idjit to put up a rational argument, he must borrow from rational people
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What purpose and meaning does theism provide?
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If you get an answer share with me
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“Atheism, its definition is that there is no reason for anything! All is purposeless Chaos!”
No, Atheism’s definition is that there is no belief in a god or gods. It has nothing to do with purpose at all. Personally, though this is my view and not necessarily that of any other atheist, I think that no god(s) leads to a pretty awesome idea about purpose and meaning.
We are the creators of meaning. We get to decide what is important, what ought to be done, and whether we will actually do it. This colossal power of actualizing purpose that you would attribute to some god is actually within each one of us. How cool is that? Just by being alive we are, by your definition, divine. Of course, being the source of all purpose and meaning is a big responsibility. That’s why we must work together to actualize the best purpose we can, refining it through the ages.
Your position of god-made-purpose robs humanity of any possibility for improvement or contribution. We’re either good cogs in line with god’s plan or bad cogs out of line. How dreary and demeaning to only exist for something else’s purpose. Fortunately, there is nothing to suggest that there is a god or gods, so we can be active in the creation of purpose, we can excel as crafters of meaning, and we can truly be masters of our own destiny.
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You have spoken well.
Belief in god robs us of the responsibility to do better. We can always it’s godswell.
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KEN HAM!!! I’m SOLD!!! Who can argue with the intellect of someone thinking the universe is only 6000 years old?! Really, who? Man, this makes hating gays all that much more correct, and fun. Who wouldn’t want to be a christian with such love and intellectual brilliance beaming out of them? WHO? As a matter of fact, I’m swearing off my cannibalistic tendencies for 2 whole days in honor of Ken (DA MAN) Ham, a 6000 year old earth, and the evil of gays. Christianity, what would we do with out ye?
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we wouldn’t be burning witches without good old Christianity
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How many creationists does it take to turn on a light? None. Only god can turn on lights, silly.
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i would have got this wrong
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You’re lucky I’m here for, eh? 🙂
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on unrelated news, I have finished watching No country for old men. Great movie
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Wasn’t it though? The Coen Brothers are great, and that’s one of their best. The bad guy, Su’gar was just terrific. He was like the devil himself, a killing machine.
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the bad guy was really bad.
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Good point. That reminds me, I’m going to a witch burning at a christian church tonight. I’d better grab up some marsh mellows.
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you should have very dry firewood, burns well and for long
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Thanks. I’ll get some.
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I started reading the post and, once I got to ‘Answers in Genesis’ I took the rest of it with a grain of salt. Ditto to ‘Inspired’s comment at 19:56 – anyone who takes ANYTHING relevant and intelligent from anything the Hamster has to say is just like him – deluded, close-minded and as far as one can get from rational. Good thing they all stick together.
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oh yes, i wish they had no internet. The world would be livelier but there would be no one to laugh at
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I tried to correct any silliness with my comment section, Carmen. Let me know if weird stuff is still going on when you try to leave one. I think it’s “Hamus Ex Machina” or “Ken Ham In The Machine.” That dude’s intellect is so great, he can influence things from afar with its great power. 🙂
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I posted again, Inspired, but . . . cyber-vine intervention. . ? 🙂
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I’ve no idea what’s up. Sorry.
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Oh my gosh what an ass backwards moron. What is it about the deluded that makes them so damn, sickeningly smug? He just knows he knows it all, knows he is right, and knows he is certainly better and smarter than any atheist. John, you and those like you are possibly the most disgusting life form that scuttles across this planet.
You know nothing beyond your indoctrination. You have no basis for any argument you have if all you are going on is what Hambone or your reverend tells you. You have been lied to. Conned. Hoodwinked. I’d tell you to get a grip, look at reality, but I already know you are buried under so much dogma and superstition you can not see reality if it bites you in the ass. The only thing any of you idjits have to go on is “I believe it because I was told it is true.” Then you look around and all of your pals believe the same shit, so it must be true. Nothing you think you know or believe is based in reality. You can’t see that can you?
The atheist enjoys life BETTER, than any brainwashed religiot. We know what happens when we die. We die. Knowing that means we live. We live to enjoy life as much as we can without taking advantage of anyone. We love our kids and our family, even if some of them are religiots, because they are family. We can see this universe doesn’t give a damn if we live or die, and that it is a struggle to stay alive. We have no fear of the monster in the closet, because there is no monster in the closet. We have no gods to kowtow to, because none have been shown to exist, save for in the minds of idiots. We don’t grovel, and beg for forgiveness for shit we haven’t done. We don’t say “Ill pray for you” when someone has a problem, we roll up our sleeves and get dirty actually doing something to help. We don’t think that paying good money for an afterlife insurance policy (that no one can verify gets paid) to some jack ass who claims to know your god, is worth our time. Atheist are all of this and a damn sight more. You don’t have a fucking clue what an atheist is or does, because you are too damned simple minded to see past your bronze age scribbles from a bunch of goat herders trying to make sense of the world. Yeah, you are so fucking smart.
Damn these people get my dander up.
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That was awesome.
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I almost feel bad for writing that now, it’s just when I see some smug condesending asshat that ain’t got a clue what the hell they are spouting off about, it rubs me the wrong way.
It is darn near a daily topic somewhere where some dingbat has to go on some ill informed opinion piece, on how an atheist has such a dreadful, boring, and miserable life. Then they are doomed to hell, blah blah blah, bible verse, bible verse, followed by more stupid condescending nonsense. All this based on belief, from a fucking work of fiction…
Some days you got to swat flies.
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Indeed. Believe it or not, and it is hard to believe, I know, I’ve occasionally let fly with a swear-word laden rant on topics like this. Ya just gotta from time to time. I’m sick of “love-filled” christian a-holes telling me I’m incapable of love and joy because I don’t kiss the ass of their particular invisible, fictional deity. Arrogant, vile human beings is what they are. They’re worse than skin cancer. Skin cancer you can get rid of. These self-righteous arrogant vile bastards are like a fart that doesn’t dissipate. No matter how hard you wave your hand at em, the smell just seems to worsen.
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We can’t let them define the who and the what we are. It’s that simple. They don’t know jack shit about what an atheist might be, except what the reverend tells them about how we must be miserable fools. Their entire world view is based on what they have been told. Not what they have investigated/weighed, and figured out for themselves based on facts/evidence.
Until any of these jackalopes can demonstrate they can tell the difference between reality, and fiction, nothing they have to say about an atheist, the universe, or even religion for that matter, is meaningful in any context.
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You are indeed right. A person listens to a pastor and thinks that is all there is to know about the universe. It isn’t.
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Using swear words is good for your health, my doctor agrees and he is right.
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Fuckin’ doctors. What the fuck do they know? 🙂
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Ah doctors, they will tell you anything, sometimes
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Fuckers. How could they say fuckin’ cursing is OK? Fuckers. Fuckin’ cursing is fuckin’ awful. Fuck.
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You ought not to feel bad at all.
Stupid rubs me the wrong way too
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I don’t think he has the sense to understand he has been lied to. That such people live among us is very disturbing
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That’s the thing, they build entire mountains of pretend knowledge based upon absolutely nothing, and have the audacity to act like they are superior intellects.
“We are right and we know we are right, because our knowledge of nothing exceeds yours.”
Someone needs to point this little problem out to them.
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you got it wrong, they are right because it says so in genesis 1
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Love refines suffering.
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As does hating gays. Man, the love of christians brings tears to my gas and methane to my colon.
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Meant to say, tears to my eyes and methane gas to my colon. All this christian love confused me.
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Hahaha. It is the real definition of love. Hate the sin love the sinner you know
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Or hate the theism, love the theist.
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I love that line
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Oh yes just as hope prolongs human misery
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That was my thinking, yes
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I must be an angry atheist. Right? I am not angry. I am stupid intolerant!
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ummm. . .just wanted to thank you for using some of the euphemisms I was referring to on Mak’s earlier post . . damn, I love a straight-talker!
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I did? I don’t know whether to apologize or do a high five 🙂 I got to go look now and see what I missed…
…and thank you.
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Apologise for?
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My euphemisms? I did not know, and still am unaware of what Carmen was referring to. So I don’t know if I was a good example of some euphemisms that were discussed, or a bad example of some euphemisms that were discussed. Just covering my ass really 😉
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You need not worry. Carmen was referring to your calling idjits idjits. Some people would couch them in some nicer words like relatively intelligent
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Far from it. Stupid will be the end of us
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the first author is an example of the Christian desire to ignore the problems of this world, excusing their and their god’s inaction by promising that the “next” will be so much better.
The second is quite a twit. We get the argument from personal incredulity. We get a failed argument that parents love children because of her god,and that’s quite a failure considering the fact that parents kill their children with unfortunate frequency. And she wants to claim that everyone really does agree with her, a wonderful example of creating the external validation that doesn’t actually exist, to convince herself she is right.
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Club, it is like imagining that the boss who doesn’t pay you well now will increase your salary tenfold in heaven. How naive are Christians?
Caroline is a special case. She ignores the many times parents have killed their children, chased them out of their homes and so on
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