Pat Robertson is a reprehensible human being and he seems to even know the mind of the excuse of a deity he serves.
If this pastor has his way, attending a rock concert and getting killed isn’t really as tragic as the rest of the world thinks.
And if you think only theists think atheism is a matter of faith, think again. Ijeoma Oluo, writing in the Guardian writes
I came to atheism the way that many Christians come to Christianity – through faith.
She continues to write
But my conviction that there is no God is nonetheless a leap of faith. Just as we have been unable to prove there is a God, we have also been unable to prove that there isn’t one.
and I must suggest here that she really should re-examine her disbelief and her grounds for disbelief.
And finally in a case of irony, the author of this post, writes in conclusion of a long post
It was obvious that neither of them were interested in logic, or a rational discussion. Which was why we prayed for them, treated them with respect and encouraged them to try to seek God whenever they felt that they current beliefs didn’t work. Of course, both of them immediately rejected the latter proposal, but we pray that they indeed will remember it when such times comes. Apologetics is awesome, but for some it is meaningless. Some just need love and the Holy Spirit to find Christ.
And once you finish reading all these, I have a few questions
- What is new age atheism? Never heard it till I read this post.
- I have observed that in posts where I address multiple issues, only one or two issues are usually commented on. is it a case of information overload or confusing my audience?
“Just as we have been unable to prove there is a God, we have also been unable to prove that there isn’t one.” I can’t prove mermaids aren’t real so my disbelief in them is a leap of faith? No. It’s only when Jesus is involved that non-belief is considered “faith.” I pick one thing to respond to as a way of limiting my long-windedness to one or maybe two answers. I pick the thing to respond to that I respond to (get how I did that?) most strongly. $Amen$
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Strange the things some atheists say or write. Instead of having only to respond to the religionists, we have to waste time correcting other godless who feel they are a class above the rest because they don’t call a delusion by its name
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I don’t think people are confused. I think they just respond to the part of the post that interests them. I will try to address all four for you.
Pat Robertson, every time I hear his name I’m fascinated because a friend of my family now works for him and I can’t do anything but wonder at it. I know D. was never as smart as his sister, but still…. Robertson’s answer is just weird. Why can’t he just leave it at “we don’t know the mind of the Lord” or “the Lord called her to him.” Maybe she didn’t love her husband is just plain weird.
The second pastor is much the same really. I don’t get why they do that since “the Lord works in mysterious ways” is such a convenient out. We can all see that there’s no one to one correspondance between whether or not someone is good and what happens to them. That’s why the “why do good things happen to bad people” is such a big question for religious people.
Ijeomo Oluo is interersting, and probably the one I would have written about if you hadn’t asked about why no one writes about everything you write about. I think she’s suffering from “nice atheist syndrome.” It’s a little habit I’ve noticed that some atheists have developed ever since the “new atheism” became a thing and complaints that atheists are arrogant and think they’re better than everyone else became commonplace. Note: “I wasn’t an overly analytical child” “it’s easy to get cocky” She’s trying to be the good, non-threatening atheist who is just like her religious friends. In a way, what she is saying barely makes sense. I think what she means to say is that she doesn’t have faith. She hasn’t had that mystical feeling that makes some people believe what’s hard to believe. She’s trying to make it the same because she doesn’t want her atheism to divide her from other people. The whole essay is about how atheists are no different, just as immoral, just as racist, just as sexist. There’s no religious basis for racism, so I wouldn’t think that atheism would make much of a difference for that. Religion can lead to sexism and I do think atheists are at least a little less sexist, but I wouldn’t expect them to entirely transcend the society in which they live. Also, I suspect some misogynistic atheists are unusually vocal and therefore seem more numerous than they are.
She goes on about Dawkins. That reminds me of a friend of mine who, when telling me about his move towards atheism said, “But I’m not an atheist like Richard Dawkins. I’m not arrogant.” Okay. Dawkins, by speaking out and being in the right place at the right time with the right book has become famous for his atheism and therefore something of a lightening rod. Definitely it resulted in a lot of hero worship, but I know plenty of people who are neutral towards him or even have a mild aversion. Hero worship is a failing shared by atheists and theists alike. So, in short, I sort of get her point. I don’t believe and I’ve never really felt like I need to give a big explanation of it. I don’t. And she’s right that atheists are not especially different and share many of the same failings as theists. I guess I don’t have a particular need to emphasize how non-threatening I am so I’ve never bothered to write an essay about how annoying and stupid some atheists can be – present company all excepted of course.
Lastly, the New Age Atheist – hmm. I think the writer there was playfulling deploying words that appear contradictory. However, how contradictory depends on your definition of atheism. I might call that person an agnostic, or maybe just a believer in New Age ideas. Believing in spirits by not in one personal creator god, omniscient, omnipotent, etc., is not as odd as the writer thinks. Many animists have belief systems that could be described that way. Taoism, Shintoism. I guess you could say that these are non-theistic belief systems. However, when most people say atheism they tend to imply that the person doesn’t believe in spirits or non-material spiritual “energy” permeating the universe. I think the guy needs to learn a little more about non-Abrahamic religions.
Why we don’t comment on everything – because this is probably longer than your post!
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You last paragraph makes a lot of sense. Maybe I should just deal with a single issue at a time.
I have never understood why some atheists work so hard to be seen as the nice ones. There should be no pretense in expressing our convictions. Besides there is nothing about not believing in ghosts that guarantees one will be nice or not.
Pastors whose messages are of hate no longer shock me. Maybe the problem is with believing in a single god, it makes one very intolerant of anyone who disagrees
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You and fojap make great points about “nice atheism”. When I first deconverted I chose that approach because I found atheists a bit scary as a newbie, especially Ark. However, I’ve been thinking about changing my profile recently. Now I chime in agreement with Ark. I’m vocal against child indoctrination. Over the last few months I’ve realized that I’m an anti-theist atheist. I came out first to my best friend (Messianic Jew) and now my husband’s family and my family know. Both families are large and quite religious.
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I guess once you’re out there to the most judgmental people in your life, why not embrace who you really are?
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I think there is no need in working hard to be nice. If you are, it will definitely come through in your writing without pandering to believers. There is no need to say oh I don’t say this or that about goddites so I must be the good one….
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I hope it goes well with your family. The stories I keep reading of being shunned by family for admitting non belief leave me quite scared for most of you
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New Age atheism… as opposed to what other kind?
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I wish I knew
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Maybe it’s the atheists who believe in quantum woo and chi and the like? 🙂
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That should be Deepak but he isn’t atheist
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Old age atheism. It refers to people over 67 who are atheists.
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Thanks friend
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Exactly… silver-haired gents, smoking cigars and sipping expensive scotch & brandy whilst reclining on leather sofas in the library of their mansion. Damn those impatient whippersnappers who refuse to play by the rules and wait until they’ve achieved their proper station in life.
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I know, right? The bastards.
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I’m pretty sure ‘New Atheism’ means ‘Atheism that doesn’t keep it’s mouth shut about the evils of religion’. I’ve only ever seen it applied to people speaking out against atrocities carried out in the name of religion. It also seems to have kind of a ‘Good Old Days’ sentiment, a yearning for a time when the infidels at least knew their place and kept their unholy thoughts to themselves.
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Mystro, I think you are onto something there.
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Carmen, here’s an excerpt of the definition of New Atheism.
“New Atheism is a contemporary intellectual movement uniting outspoken atheists. The New Atheists’ philosophies and arguments are generally consistent with those of their predecessors; what’s “New” is a difference in style and profitability. Most of the prominent New Atheists have had at least one book become a bestseller, which was almost unheard of for atheistic literature in the past.”
There’s more:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/New_Atheism
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…. Aahhhh… That’s the first I’ve actually seen of a definition for New Atheists. When I think of NA, I think of people like Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris and others…you know, the ones who refer to the Negative effects of religion…(I don’t know why my iPad insists on capitalizing some letters…. Grrr… The kids are on my computer…)
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Based on this definition, I’m just a poor atheist. Haven’t profited in the least, unless you count my as of yet unrewarded, but highly earned, Nobel Prize.
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..and well deserved, my friend. You also qualify for the prestigious IG® Nobel Prize, because you make people laugh than think.
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😀
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Haha. That he does a lot if not all the time then most of the time
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$Amen$
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I meant to write then, not than.
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$Amen$
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I am not in this camp then.
I have made no money, zilch, from my blogging activities and I am not known beyond the door
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I don’t even know you, and you’re my fellow last prophet.
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You know, where do we register?
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At the gates of Valhalla.
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Do I have to pay to know where Valhalla is and for registration?
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Probably. I’ll send you a brochure.
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Mystro, maybe I’m mistaken, but I was assuming Noel was asking about New Age Atheism.
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You are not mistaken
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You are right on New Atheism. As Victoria has said, I was asking about New age atheism since this is a new one to me
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Ah, well then, I apologize. From what I’ve gathered, ‘New Age Atheists’ is a label for those who don’t believe in any gods, but do believe in other supernatural nonsense, like say, poltergeists or homeopathy. I’ve only seen it used a couple of times, always by theists. One was going on and on about how “atheism is a religion too”. It seems to me an attempt to combine two unrelated things.
As to your second question, I believe my error illustrates it perfectly. As much as I appreciate your writings, sometimes I just don’t have the time to give them all attention they deserve. Shortcuts are taken and comments are reserved for the juiciest bits. And sometimes too many shortcuts are taken and I answer entirely the wrong question. Sorry again. I shall endeavour to do better.
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You do very well all the time and the comments, even unrelated to the op, are welcome. It doesn’t matter much as long as we are having a conversation and much better if we can laugh while at it.
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[…] Source: the love of some Christians and other stories […]
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Pat Robertson and Steven Anderson are narcissistic propagandists. Anderson and his ministry have been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Based on a couple of posts I read, the young lad from Sweden probably has neurological disorder tendencies. He experiences hallucinations, delusions, and OCD behavior.
In one of his posts he states: “Some years later, in 2010, the Lord gave me an incredible gift of prayer. I prayed thousands of prayers every day, and I could have a constant conversation with God inside my head for hours. After checking off a long prayer list, I was lying on my bed worshipping, and then the whole atmosphere of the room changed. It was filled with a holy presence, that’s the best way I can describe it.”
He goes on about how he saw Jesus, and not just once. The OCD-like praying is what sends up red flags, though.
The New Age Atheist is clever. She/He gets the benefits of being a believer (inclusion), and seems to have a lack of awareness about the toxicity and invasiveness of religious fundamentalism which seeks to dissolve democracy, globally, and expedite on Armageddon. I’m fully aware that this can happen in “non-religious” places like North Korea, but their citizens are demanded to worship their leader, who believes he’s God. So, it’s still a fundamentalist, religious culture.
As far as your last question goes, maybe people don’t comment on all the issues you raise because they simply have nothing to add or may want to read up on it. I’ve done that a lot. Sometimes I’ve spend several hours research some of the things you share. Then by the time I’ve read up on it, the post is no longer active and you’ve moved on. Also, you tend to leave multiple links at times, and that requires a lot of reading. Not all of us are speed readers like you. 😉
When people are harmed by religious fundamentalism, I get angry. Fuck those who think that getting angry and bringing awareness and education about the dysfunction that impacts the whole of our species and the planet, is equivalent to bigotry and hatred. The only goddamn reason you apologists have freedom of speech is because you live in a secular society.
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“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” (variously attributed to Orwell, Kipling,etc).
or as I would paraphrase it: People sleep peaceably in the beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do reason on their behalf….
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I like your paraphrase. Well stated.
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The feedback on the questions has been helpful.
Strange the things some atheists write. Leaves me wondering which planets they inhabit.
Ah, the new age atheist can be said to having their cake and eating it too.
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Noel, I don’t always respond but I always read, and I love your blog. Also, the links you share are always interesting. After reading those links yesterday, I found them to be triggering, only because of the utter idiocracy and inhumanity happening in my country right now from evangelical Christians and their Christian legislators on local, state and federal levels, who know that they can control their followers, and bring out the worst in them, through fear mongering. Sorry about the OT yesterday. Comic relief was beneficial, and my apologies to your Grandmother. You should know better than to let her read your blog. 😉
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Comic relief is welcome. I don’t know how she got the link.
Christians do know how to spread love, don’t you think?
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Love is only one of the things they spread. Wasn’t it fleas on Christians that brought the plague to Europe in the Middle Ages?
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Something to do with their hygiene if I remember correctly.
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Right.
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New Age Atheism is where women cry ”Oh, God … no! ( as opposed to yes) during sex.
And now I shall receive 5gb of hate mail for being sexist.
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True. They are the ones being fucked by dicks.
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That is certainly one way of putting it! 😉
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Victoria, your reply is so much more penetrating than mine… 😉
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Are you saying size does matter?
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Me likes this.
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Ark must think so… 🙂
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Yes, and stone phallus’ are experts on such deep subjects.
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When Mak gets up in the morning and reads through this thread, he’s gonna say, “Those girls sure had fun with Ark last night!” *she grins*
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Haha, I think Noel is used to expecting just about anything from us. Surprisingly, Jeff has been tame in this thread. He must have had holy indigestion or accidentally zapped himself.
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Don’t get Jeff started, we will not have the end of it
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That’s what SHE said!!!!!!!
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Just enjoying reading what you fine ladies are writing.
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My grandmother has now banned me from blogging the whole day because of this 😦
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