On logic and other questions

Theists, not all of them, but most tell us without god, their particular god, logic is impossible.
Are they saying without god, two and two equal seven?
Are they saying without god, a thing can be and not be at the same time?
Or is it possible to have a triangle without angles?
The answer to the above questions is a resounding no. Gods are useless in the sphere of logic. They add nothing to it.
On the contrary, no law of logic is abused by the statement there is no god(s).
Others have argued god exists out of time. Created time and space. All existence we know of is in time.
I need help in understanding existence out of time.

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

68 thoughts on “On logic and other questions

  1. john zande says:

    M E T A P H Y S I C S

    Whatever that means.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. KIA says:

    “Learned well you have, my young Padowan Learner. Looking for sense, you are? Wanting the truth, you say? ehhhhehhhehhh!
    There, afraid i am, you will not find it.
    “just stop asking questions and feel the music” as one blogger recently wrote. -KIA

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Hariod Brawn says:

    The phrase ‘existence out of time’ is oxymoronical. Heraclitus paraphrased: ‘existence is change’. No thing exists out of time, ergo god is nothingness, wholly (sic) no-thing-ness.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I once visited a timeless, spaceless realm. I got lost there. and everyone there was rude. I’d ask for directions back to space and time, and they’d just say, “Fuck you, dude! Drop some more acid and hang out with us!” Rude, eh? Wait….that never happened. Well….the acid did, but somehow I think I was still in time and space.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. ladysighs says:

    You’ll get no help from me. Seek ye elsewhere.


  6. >>> “I need help in understanding existence out of time.”

    Obviously, it’s impossible to understand such an absurd idea.

    >>> “… no law of logic is abused by the statement there is no god(s).”

    True, although logic (i.e. rationalism) is not the only method of reason available to us. Science (i.e. empiricism) – the pursuit of knowledge through testable, verifiable observation and experimentation – is the preferred choice of many.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Peter says:

    It is presupposition apologetics. They start with an underlying premise and build a logically infallible proof based on that premise.

    The only real problem is that the starting premise which they state as fact, actually is not a fact. So it really is a house built on sand (to use a Biblical metaphor).

    My suggestion is to avoid anyone who argues in this way, they are among the most frustrating people on earth.


  8. nannus says:

    Existence in mathematics is out of time. For each natural number n “there is” a number n+1, for example. You could interpret this as an instruction to do something, but if you look at the existential quantifier in such a statement, there is no time. One can ask, of course, in what sense mathematical “objects” “exist”, and that is a thorny matter (and I would like to avoid it). This has probably nothing to do with theology, however.


  9. themodernidiot says:

    I gotta hand it to you my friend, you find some really cuckoo stuff 🙂


  10. […] here, we did ask what a timeless existence would look like. […]


  11. Mystro says:

    “I need help in understanding existence out of time.”

    Any religious answer would be utter nonsense. Even worse, most religious answers are painfully boring. If you’re going to throw coherency to the wind, at least come up with something interesting.

    Once again, the real answer is far more wonderful and mind blowing than anything mythology could dream up. We know that as we move faster, time slows down and distances shrink: space-time compresses. We know we can’t travel at the speed of light as our mass would approach infinity, as would the energy required to accelerate us to further. What does this mean for the photon, that is travelling at the speed of light? It means, from its perspective, there is no time or space.

    A photon might be emitted by one atom then absorbed by its neighbour and, from our perspective, we would say that happened really fast over a very short distance.

    A photon may also travel from a star, over untold lightyears, and be absorbed by an object on the other side of the universe. From our perspective, we would say that took a long time and it travelled a very long way.

    But for the photon, these scenarios are identical. Both trips took exactly zero time and it traveled exactly zero distance. That is, from its perspective, the instant it is emitted is the same as the instant it is absorbed. It exists, literally, for no time at all. To be honest, this kind of breaks my brain, but it does leave me with an interesting thought:

    To be timeless is to be impotent. There is no time to do anything. It is only in the complete destruction of the timeless photon -its absorption into matter- that it can have any effect on the surrounding universe.

    Liked by 1 person

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