Theists, not all of them, but most tell us without god, their particular god, logic is impossible.
Are they saying without god, two and two equal seven?
Are they saying without god, a thing can be and not be at the same time?
Or is it possible to have a triangle without angles?
The answer to the above questions is a resounding no. Gods are useless in the sphere of logic. They add nothing to it.
On the contrary, no law of logic is abused by the statement there is no god(s).
Others have argued god exists out of time. Created time and space. All existence we know of is in time.
I need help in understanding existence out of time.
M E T A P H Y S I C S
Whatever that means.
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Aha, that branch of study of things mysterious?
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Even better, things unknowable. It’s where Peter the Pipe-Smoking Rabbit (Blessed Be He) resides.
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Things immaterial, without extension, and out of time
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…but real… Oh, I see… No, you don’t…. But….?
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I wonder, if I brought a watch into a timeless realm, would it keep time? Also, I wonder if they get good cell phone reception there. Hate to be stuck in a timeless place without a phone. What does a timeless realm look like? If it exists out of time and existence, does it still exist? How can anyone possibly know this? CRAZY shit, man! Bat-shit crazy shit!
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Timeless, spaceless. You are losing your memory my friend ๐
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What? What did you say? Wait…what was I saying? I forgot. Never mind.
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But but, it is written here in my book
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“Learned well you have, my young Padowan Learner. Looking for sense, you are? Wanting the truth, you say? ehhhhehhhehhh!
There, afraid i am, you will not find it.
“just stop asking questions and feel the music” as one blogger recently wrote. -KIA
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I try to listen to music a lot, but these people say things that are absurd
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IB said that on the post he had about the ‘challenge’ of john’s
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IB is special case of obtuse and ignorant
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Incurable perhaps?
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Maybe John can get through to her
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Could be. He is the Jedi. The force is strong in him
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He is the force.
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“Help them obi wan, you’re their only hope”
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Spoiler Alert! Spoiler Alert! Colorstorm is Kylo Ren! Colorstorm is Kylo Ren!
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Haha!!
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I think it was metaphorical encouraging people to not think just feel, and the answer it? Gawdidit!
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Aha, keep them enriching the tills. Keep them stupid
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I made it out of the thunder dome, maybe others will too
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Of course. But some not likely. I don’t see CS, Wally or James being sensible
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Well, believe me when I say… minus the dishonesty and rudeness, I was 10 times as deep and experienced as either of them, yet I finally listened and left the faith
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Maybe they are not so lost. They could be redeemed
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The phrase ‘existence out of time’ is oxymoronical. Heraclitus paraphrased: ‘existence is change’. No thing exists out of time, ergo god is nothingness, wholly (sic) no-thing-ness.
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I have missed you.
You have gone to the core of the matter and closed it shut!
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He’s very good at that. *nods a lot*.
– esme upon the Cloud
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I once visited a timeless, spaceless realm. I got lost there. and everyone there was rude. I’d ask for directions back to space and time, and they’d just say, “Fuck you, dude! Drop some more acid and hang out with us!” Rude, eh? Wait….that never happened. Well….the acid did, but somehow I think I was still in time and space.
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Haha hahaha.
You are funny my friend.
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You’ll get no help from me. Seek ye elsewhere.
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I was hoping you would help. My case is totally lost
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About the only thing I’m good for is silly comments. ๐ฆ My blog loves comments … even silly ones. ๐
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Silly comments? Silly comments?! Really?! What kind of a person would make silly com…….Never mind.
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All of us are blessed with sophisticated followers. ๐
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How do you read a silly comment? Never mind
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Do silly comments exist outside of time? Wait! That WAS a silly comment.
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In spaceless, timeless and limitless existence
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If you have not been told yet, your blog has very rich content and entertaining
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>>> “I need help in understanding existence out of time.”
Obviously, it’s impossible to understand such an absurd idea.
>>> “… no law of logic is abused by the statement there is no god(s).”
True, although logic (i.e. rationalism) is not the only method of reason available to us. Science (i.e. empiricism) – the pursuit of knowledge through testable, verifiable observation and experimentation – is the preferred choice of many.
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I agree Bob.
To satisfy my empiricists, I can comfortably say the idea/ concept of god lacks or hasn’t been verified. Will this be acceptable?
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Absolutely. There isn’t ANY evidence supporting the existence of god(s); and, to all those theists out there, works of mythology and fiction (e.g. the Bible) do not meet the empirical standards of evidence.
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They do if you’re reading them in a timeless, spaceless, limitless, realm. ๐
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The realm of NOTHINGNESS… what better place for gods to exist?
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A realm where everything is done and not done. It is a realm where a square circle is possible
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Bob I know you hardly visit their sites, these people are impossible. The other day one told me all religions are false but the bible is true, it says so in the bible.
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Those people are mindlessly impossible, and that’s precisely why I give them little attention.
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You are right in doing that
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It is presupposition apologetics. They start with an underlying premise and build a logically infallible proof based on that premise.
The only real problem is that the starting premise which they state as fact, actually is not a fact. So it really is a house built on sand (to use a Biblical metaphor).
My suggestion is to avoid anyone who argues in this way, they are among the most frustrating people on earth.
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If any of the premises of their presuppositions can be demonstrated as false, the conclusions can be accepted as valid
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Existence in mathematics is out of time. For each natural number n “there is” a number n+1, for example. You could interpret this as an instruction to do something, but if you look at the existential quantifier in such a statement, there is no time. One can ask, of course, in what sense mathematical “objects” “exist”, and that is a thorny matter (and I would like to avoid it). This has probably nothing to do with theology, however.
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Nothing to do with theology I think. The sophisticated theologian argues their god is timeless and spaceless but do stuff in time and space
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I gotta hand it to you my friend, you find some really cuckoo stuff ๐
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Hey friend, blame it on books and a lot of free time
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Im gonna blame it on your smarts and need for justice. I like having friends who are kinda like superheroes ๐
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I always tell you to not be so extravagant with your praise dearest!
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And i tell you to embrace the metaphor ๐
To someone out there, Mak, youre a kind of hero. Whether its because you saved a puppy, or taught someone to think outside the bible box. We’re all heroes in our own way, son. Be proud you were built for that work vs the work you work against.
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Beautifully said.
Have a pleasant day love. Will write to you shortly
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Wonderful! I could use the distraction
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It came already
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I read it and had many smiles! Will take a bit for a proper response. Life here is quite busy lately.
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[…] here, we did ask what a timeless existence would look like. […]
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“I need help in understanding existence out of time.”
Any religious answer would be utter nonsense. Even worse, most religious answers are painfully boring. If you’re going to throw coherency to the wind, at least come up with something interesting.
Once again, the real answer is far more wonderful and mind blowing than anything mythology could dream up. We know that as we move faster, time slows down and distances shrink: space-time compresses. We know we can’t travel at the speed of light as our mass would approach infinity, as would the energy required to accelerate us to further. What does this mean for the photon, that is travelling at the speed of light? It means, from its perspective, there is no time or space.
A photon might be emitted by one atom then absorbed by its neighbour and, from our perspective, we would say that happened really fast over a very short distance.
A photon may also travel from a star, over untold lightyears, and be absorbed by an object on the other side of the universe. From our perspective, we would say that took a long time and it travelled a very long way.
But for the photon, these scenarios are identical. Both trips took exactly zero time and it traveled exactly zero distance. That is, from its perspective, the instant it is emitted is the same as the instant it is absorbed. It exists, literally, for no time at all. To be honest, this kind of breaks my brain, but it does leave me with an interesting thought:
To be timeless is to be impotent. There is no time to do anything. It is only in the complete destruction of the timeless photon -its absorption into matter- that it can have any effect on the surrounding universe.
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Awesome response!
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Thank you for saying so ๐
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Thank you. There is a lot of material to think about here
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No kidding. Physics gets pretty wild. I just dabble with these ideas and my mind gets blown. I can’t imagine being satisfied with something as mundane as “God did it”.
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