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did Jesus really have to die?


Pretending for a moment that he lived, yes, all organic things die. To believe otherwise is to be either ignorant or ignorant.

When a christcultist writes that Jesus died so we could receive forgiveness is, to me, for lack of a better word thinking with the ass.

Anyone who thinks an animal or a person had to die to pay for their infractions has lost the use of their reason.

The question the godcultist must give an answer for is, why would an omniscient god, knowing full well the outcome of creating humans, go ahead and create them? It must have known it will have to die at some stage and that we would still go on a killing, so why do it?

Whoever Mac is, there is nothing wrong with recovering from a delusion. In fact, it is to be encouraged. So Mac, whether he Mitch’s fiction or a real guy, bravo to you for waking from the delusion.

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

59 thoughts on “did Jesus really have to die?”

  1. ladysighs says:
    March 30, 2016 at 13:55

    Well at least when Jesus died, he didn’t demand that a bunch of his followers etc be buried alive with him to serve him in the after life. I have been reading about some religious cults doing that. We’ve come a long way, baby. 😉

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  2. clubschadenfreude says:
    March 30, 2016 at 13:56

    as one of many strange parts of a strange story, if JC had to die as a savior, why wait some unknown thousands of years after “eden” to send the supposed actual solution to “original sin”?

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    • makagutu says:
      March 30, 2016 at 14:42

      good question.
      why had the sin to be left to worsen?

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      • ladysighs says:
        March 30, 2016 at 14:50

        As humans we like to let others “stew in their own juices” We like to see others suffer a bit before coming to their rescue.
        But then god/jesus aren’t human ……. so why did they wait so long???

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        • makagutu says:
          March 30, 2016 at 19:45

          And will he die a second and third time? It appears the first dying did not improve the lot of believers. They are daft, they suffer, they are full of guilt

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        • Christine Elizabeth says:
          April 1, 2016 at 23:52

          As Jesus said, My ways are not your ways and My thoughts are not your thoughts. We are just people…people he created. You cannot possibly understand the mind of God. That is why we have faith. Knowing that God is incapable of anything bad and will ONLY do what is best for us. We have to have faith that that is what is taking place in times of adversity. Remember, Satan was given the world to rule. But we do not have to be a part of that world and be ruled by him, but instead be ruled by the one who loves us, Jesus.

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          • makagutu says:
            April 2, 2016 at 13:08

            Hey Christine, hope you are having a pleasant weekend.
            Jesus, if he existed, created nothing. How can you know god is incapable of anything bad when you can’t know the mind of god?
            If Satan was given the world to rule, then ultimately it is god’s problem not ours. Let them settle their differences elsewhere

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  3. KIA says:
    March 30, 2016 at 14:47

    as a christian, i never asked the question of whether god could have chosen to just forgive on the basis of repentance alone… requiring no human or ‘human/divine’ sacrifice at all.
    i guess if it were his shooting match to begin with, he could. I never asked the next question either. Why didn’t he is he could have? -KIA

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  4. inspiredbythedivine1 says:
    March 30, 2016 at 14:48

    “He died to save us from us!” The “us” he created and KNEW he’d have to die for in the guise of his own son. Yeah. These people need to be pitied and placed in a mental hospital. Massive doses of anti-psychotic drugs would help, too. The stench of methane rises from my computer every time I read this crap.

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  5. mitchteemley says:
    March 30, 2016 at 15:17

    Just for the record, Makagutu, you have not accurately represented the ideas presented in my post. And last time I checked, my brain was still soundly ensconced in my skull. It is possible to disagree without resorting to insults. Have a great week.

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    • makagutu says:
      March 30, 2016 at 15:37

      Where have I misrepresented your ideas?
      Have a pleasant week

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      • inspiredbythedivine1 says:
        March 30, 2016 at 16:37

        You misrepresent because you do not accept and agree. To disagree with the christian, to say he’s wrong, is the equivalent of name calling and trampling on their rights. See, though the christian god is considered to be powerful, the christian himself is not. His skin is very thin, and to say he is wrong is to throw punches into his privy parts. It’s all good, however. Because, to the ultra-sensitive christian, you are nothing but fodder for the fires of hell which god has prepared for your non-believing self. Have a great eternity, you non-believing, questioning fool you. $Amen$ And please, refrain from misrepresenting and insulting any more ultra-sensitive christians. You’re trampling on their rights when you do.

        Now for a quote: “I created you. I got angry with you. I came to earth and, masochistically, committed suicide in a horrible, brutal way. Then, I came back and nothing changed. I still don’t like you. That’s why I built hell. Now, the three of me are off to Taco Bell for dinner. Even though there’s but one of me, I eat for three. My meds have worn off and the voices have returned. ‘Bye.” Yahweh, circa 2003.

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      • mitchteemley says:
        March 31, 2016 at 18:53

        Mak, I only just now saw your response to my comment. Regarding your question, “Where have I misrepresented your ideas?” You have done so with both of the ideas you attribute to me: 1) “a christcultist (me, presumably) writes that Jesus died so we could receive forgiveness” (I did not say this, nor does not accurately represent what I did say; 2) “Anyone (referring to me, presumably) who thinks an animal or a person had to die to pay for their infractions has lost the use of their reason.” I did not say this, neither do I believe it.

        I am, by the way, an ex-atheist. I don’t expect to win you over with a handful of comments (either heated or dispassionate), nor, I’m sure, do you expect that of me, so this will be my last for now. Best, Mitch

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        • makagutu says:
          March 31, 2016 at 19:32

          Christcultists refers to anyone who claim, as you do, they follow christ. You said this

          “Jesus didn’t die so I could forgive you, he died so you could receive it, so you could be setfree” (cf. Acts 26:18). (I later learned that the Greek word for “forgive” in the New Testament means to be “released” from the results or effects of something.)

          How is what I have said a misrepresentation?
          So your saying that he was the final sacrifice is not what you believe? So what do you actually believe?
          Ah, the ex atheist claim. I will take you at your word. So what happened? Your girlfriend jilted you? Or you were addicted to porn and couldn’t help it?
          I am always open to persuasion, I could be wrong in my beliefs and I think there nothing wrong with trying to correct my bad ways.

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    • makagutu says:
      March 30, 2016 at 19:51

      Mitch, you have every opportunity to list the ideas I have not presented correctly.
      If your brain is still in your skull, by all means use it.
      It is possible to disagree without resorting to insults. I do this all the time with reasonable people. Using your post as a barometer, I doubt your reasonableness. You think your friend Mac, not me of course, isn’t justified in challenging what he used to believe and then to impress the madhouse you run, you tell them you have learnt what to forgive is in Greek like it changes the fact that the said sacrifice you are proud of is barbaric.

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  6. Arkenaten says:
    March 30, 2016 at 19:09

    I read bis post. Yet another indoctrinated half-wit who has no understanding of the history of his religion, or desires to have any either.
    As everything is about JC shedding blood I wonder how he feels with the view recently raised that perhaps Jesus was not actually nailed to a cross, but tied?

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  7. Peter says:
    March 31, 2016 at 05:09

    Mak, when I was applying for admission to a theological seminary I explained it in the following way:

    God is Holy so He cannot allow sin into His presence, the only characteristic of God that is repeated three times in the Bible is his Holiness. God is Just so He cannot just overlook sin and pretend it never happened, the price for sin has to be paid. God is Merciful so He wants us to be able to avoid paying this dreadful price for our sin. God is Loving so He determined to pay the price for our sin himself – by coming to this earth in the person of Jesus and offering himself as a perfect sacrifice.

    So within the Christian worldview there is a logic to the cross.

    I think that the greater weakness of the argument of the cross is that Jesus spending three hours there covers the ‘sins’ of all humanity. It seems a bit lopsided, especially if one concludes that those who don’t ‘accept’ Jesus are sent to ‘God’s’ torture chamber for all eternity.

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    • makagutu says:
      March 31, 2016 at 06:17

      I am afraid, Peter, there is no logic to this still. If the Christian god is omniscient and omnipresent, it is in the presence of sin and knows about it everywhere at all times. The only time an argument that in its presence sin isn’t allowed is if it lived in a particular place at a particular time and then people go to meet with it.
      Further, if Jesus were god he was aware he wouldn’t be dead long. How is that a sacrifice? It’s a play where the actors are sons of virgins and dreamers

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      • Peter says:
        March 31, 2016 at 07:20

        Mak please note I said that logic is based on adopting the Christian worldview.

        For those who are able to adopt that worldview it is a bit like living in a parallel universe, which in essence can be defined as, everything associated with God is good and perfect, everything else is corrupt and has no worth to it.

        Having said all this, Christian theologians can’t actually agree among themselves the finer details of the logic of the Cross. But these finer details tend to be way too deep for the majority of Christians to even consider.

        The real theological issue arises from where Jesus describes his death as a ‘ransom’. But a ransom paid to whom? Some say ‘God’ others the ‘Devil’.

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  8. Patrick A Cooper says:
    March 31, 2016 at 21:13

    The cross is foolishness to those who are perishing (1 Corinthians 1:18), Mak, in my Christian opinion, you are perishing (spiritually), thus to you the cross and all it represents is foolishness. I will not bother with a theological argument, It is foolishness to you and foolish of me to attempt to persuade you to the Christian worldview; but, I will pray that someone, somewhere, someday, will provide the answers you seek and you will trust Christ as your savior. .

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    • inspiredbythedivine1 says:
      March 31, 2016 at 21:20

      Be wary of the christian lying to you that his religion is a true path to God. There is no God but Allah, and Mohammad is His Prophet. From the Koran: 3:85: “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.”
      The christain is a snake, the Great Satan, the enemy of Truth, and the enemy of God. Trust in God alone to save and protect you, and cover your ears when the great christian deceiver speaks, for listening to him is surely the pathway to Hell. Allahu Akbar

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    • makagutu says:
      April 1, 2016 at 07:41

      Hi Patrick, in my opinion, you have perished [mentally] and thus to you reason is foolishness and common sense is what others have but you don’t.
      I am not looking for answers, not for your Christ anyway. That boat sailed.
      Thanks for taking time to read and comment.

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  9. Ron says:
    March 31, 2016 at 23:22

    “When you believe in things that you don’t understand, then you suffer.
    Superstition ain’t the way.” ~Stevie Wonder

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  10. Ted says:
    April 1, 2016 at 19:58

    You are missing the entire point. People die. Jesus died. So what??? It isn’t that he just died. He died a sacrificial death. He took our sin and our punishment. He rose from the dead to vindicate his sacrifice and offer us eternal life. The offer of eternal life is free. All you need to do is accept it. It seems foolish to walk away from this free gift. But it is your choice. If you are really interested in a rational investigation, I would suggest reading Augustine’s Confessions and C S Lewis’ Mere Christianity.

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