In the recent past, 3 fellows were severely beaten, killed and later dumped in a river by, we suspect, cops. In the US of A, there is a similar story and elsewhere in Baghdad, some over zealous religiots blasted a building killing more than 200 people.
this brings me to my first question of the day; Has existence any worth? What is the value of human life.
A mammal is a warm-blooded vertebrate animal of a class that is distinguished by the possession of hair or fur, the secretion of milk by females for the nourishment of the young, and (typically) the birth of live young. I see an animal befitting the above description and call it a mammal. And this is designated as truth. Anyone who disagrees is a madman or a madman.
My second question of the day; What is truth?
Random thoughts 
Have you read David Benatar’s “Better never to have been”? In this book Benatar argues that existence is not worthwhile. I believe I have recommended you this book earlier.
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I don’t think so but now I have to look for it.
Do you think existence is worthwhile
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I believe people could make their existence worthwhile. However, I agree with Benatar that people cannot suffer from non-existence and non-existence is preferable to certain types of existence.
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I finished the book. Such a good read.
I think I agree with Benatar’s argument that no one is harmed by being brought to existence and further that we have a moral duty not to bring anyone into existence
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Beauty is truth, truth beauty – that is all
Ye know on earth and all ye need to know
Or so said Mr Keats. Can’t say I agree, mind.
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You have made it even harder.
I have seen somewhere someone ask what is beauty and is it a property of a thing?
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“Has existence any worth?”….”What is truth?”
— Do you mean truth as regards existence?
Psychology provides some useful answers to such ontological questions. The problems of this world are a reflection of problems of deficiencies of the mind and the ‘soul.'(soul means consciousness and all that influences it)
I think existence is “what is” and truth is “what is and shall always be” which brings us to traditional metaphysics. But whatever ‘is or shall always be’ has to be perceived by a mind. If a particular mind fails to perceive that due to certain inadequacies, then its truth will be different from that of any other mind.
I hope that answers your question.
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Truth as regards truth.
My question was, and I will use an illustration again; is something red because we designate a certain hue red or is there something red that is independent of our calling it so, I hope that makes sense.
I am but I will not always be. What does this do to your definition of truth?
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“Truth as regards truth”– this implies that you know truth.
There is always something that objectively exists, independent of perceptive biases eg sun, moon, trees, birds etc. Bulls can also see red so the color red is independent of our calling it so.
Indeed, you are and will not always be but collectively, humanity is and will always be. Considering the total number of years in which humanity or life has existed, you and I as individuals don’t exist yet.
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But you see you are missing the point of my question. We have designated a something the sun, another a bull. And another a tree. Is this not an illusion that these words, anthropomorphic as they are, denote these things?
You mean there is no chance of humanity going extinct? Your certainty surprises me
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I think I understood your question. You seem to be diverting towards semantics and implying that all things are so because we designated them as so (with words).
One certainty is that, other organisms perceive each other independent of human perception. Would you say eagles and monkeys can’t see each other because humans can’t see them?
Yes, I believe there will always be humans on earth…they may only look different from us and perhaps be more malign. For humanity to revert to good, it will take a remarkable event, a kind of rebirth which the religious folks are hoping for.
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Interesting that you see it as semantics. Is that your way of answering questions that challenge your deeply held beliefs? Dismiss them with a handwave called semantics?
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red is an adjective. I think “red” is just a description of some underlying reality and that part of that underlying reality is the existence of neurological capacity and eye structures able to distinguish between said states of reality
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“To be or not to be..” Existence is only good in a timeless, spaceless, limitless realm where you drink tea and eat cookies all day with invisible deities named Fred and Ethyl. Oh, my freewill got jammed in the shower door this morning and broke. It’s awful. Now I’ve only half a freewill. What’s a body to do?
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As to the issue of your freewill, you could go to the secondhand dealer for a replacement.
To be or not to be is the question
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“Does existence have any worth” and “what is truth”? Those are two really big big big questions for one post. Spread it out a bit! lol
Does existence have any worth?: Overall I’d have to say it only has worth in that it is better than not existing. But perhaps that’s just because I am a fortunate person in this world that I have this point of view. But I do think that if more people held that philosophy the world we be a better place. This is why I feel religion which tends to have built in some system to cheat death, cheapens existence, and is of course the root of many problems in the past and now.
What is truth?: For this question I’m going to have to ask for clarification. Do you mean individually? Objectively? I mean one person can think they know the truth, which might not be somebody else’s truth…and neither may be the actual truth. And the actual truth, may not be the actual truth either even though it might be better than someone else’s individual truth. lol
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I thought about splitting the posts but laziness prevailed 🙂
Your point about existing being better than non existence reminds me of Anselm’s argument for god.
Do you think if a majority believe existence has some worth, it would change how they treat others?
I mean truth in whichever way you perceive it.
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So I’m reading over this Anselm’s argument, and I am not sure I understand it so I can’t verify whether or not my remark resembles it or not. But I do feel that valuing existence, over non-existence leads to a better appreciation and valuing of life. If 80 years of life in a small speck in the universe, for a small speck in time is going to have any worth at all, to me it comes from the idea that existence, and to be aware of that existence is special, because we know that the universe is more nothing than something, and that life itself is rare.
Truth to me is much harder to define, simply because I see it as a dynamic rather than static. Not that there isn’t a static truth out there, but to me that’s so far away is to be akin to reaching infinity. Hariod’s definition is a good one…the static position of truth is infallible, but even the truths we think we are sure, may change. All we can know for sure if that we know seems to work. The first and second law of thermodynamics seem unlikely to be found to be not the truth, but only once we reach that far away point of complete understanding would we know this.
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My best shot this morning:
Existence must have worth to itself, as in sustaining its continuance it sees that same worth.
Truth is an infallible position, yet all positions are contingent.
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I like that definition of truth Hariod!
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Ta, Swarn; it’s pretty much what you yourself said, I suppose.
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But succinctness matters! A skill I’m not sure I’ll ever learn. LOL
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Some Greeks so existence as a debt to be repaid. That the best thing was not to be. What do you think of that?
You always have a way with words. Would it be correct to say truth is contingent?
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How can ‘not being’ have any quality or attribute? It can’t; so ‘not being’ can’t be ‘the best thing’.
I think truth is contingent, but stand happy to be corrected, Mak. All things are condition-dependent, are they not?
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“How can ‘not being’ have any quality or attribute? It can’t; so ‘not being’ can’t be ‘the best thing’.” Not being is an idea that only exists if there’s a “being” to understand its concept. Can a thing exist if nothing is there to perceive it? If so, how do we know? Can a bear shit in the woods if no one’s there to smell it? Is it warmer in the forest than it is in the Summer? if we mashed up cherries and said they were ketchup, would you feed it to a baby? If you’ve really big fingers, can you make the sound of one hand clapping? If your toes were on your hands, could you play the guitar as well? I’m SO confused!
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This should help with your confusion, inspired one:
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Can’t get much better than Mr. Cleese! Hilarious.
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Interesting questions all of them.
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Has existence any worth? What is the value of human life?
Not sure. But according to this website, a fresh cadaver could be worth upwards of $45 million.
What is truth?
At the most basic level, that which conforms to reality. Unfortunately, our experiences of reality can be distorted.
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It does seem, one is worth more dead than alive. In this case non existence trumps 🙂
Actually it is not just our experiences of reality that can be distorted, what reality is is in itself a big question
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From a non-philosophical POV, truth is what you make it and thus is distinct for each individual.
Existence has worth only to the person who values it.
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In the first case, truth is person dependent and existence in itself has no value
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Like Curly once said to Moe of the Three Stooges, “Moe, even if ya’ value non-existence ya’ still gotta exist ta do it. WOO! WOO! WOO! WOO! WOO!”
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interesting and poignant.
That one must first exist to be able to talk about non existence
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Homeostasis is meaning. It’s also truth.
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Boom.
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It’s that bedrock thing, eh?
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Like the Flintstones?
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i am still thinking……
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I think the value in human life lies in the love of famliy and friends. Terrorists and dictators only have value in their ideologies.
Truth is that which is not fiction (to be persnickety.) For humans though, truth lies somewhere between facts and perspective. Not the same for everyone.
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“Truth lies somewhere between facts and perspective.” I say truth lies somewhere between fat and perspiration, but that’s just me. 🙂
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I’d think that which lies between fat and perspiration is a good workout. Probably a well needed workout 🙂
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That and a lot of pasta.
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The top honchos in the terrorist organization must value their lives, it is the lives of others that don’t count, I guess. They are a means to an end.
What is fiction? Don’t say that which isn’t true 🙂
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I guess this is cheating but an online dictionary definition:
” A narrative, explanation, or belief that may seem true but is false or fabricated”
…you know, like religion, within the minds of the deluded 🙂
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I look at the problem this way:
Would the Earth, all the life on it, the universe, and a possibly larger cosmos, simply cease to exist if Homo sapiens suddenly went extinct?
No, of course not.
Therefore, existential questions of reality and truth only reflect our subjective perceptions as well as our struggle to objectively understand the world around us. Such questions are metaphysical, much like those involving religion and theism. I prefer the empirical.
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Well said.
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It could be the case that existential questions regarding reality and truth are metaphysical but I think they are worth looking at for the simple reason that more often than note, someone somewhere is always saying I am telling you the TRUTH
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But I AM telling you the truth!
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Existential questions regarding reality and truth are not exclusively metaphysical by any stretch of the imagination. Cosmology, for example, uses strictly empirical means. However, metaphysics must be applied where science falls short; and, that is precisely why billions of people on this planet still believe in gods.
It is true, someone somewhere is always saying that you are telling us the truth. But, true to my empirical nature, I say to them: “Prove it.”
I’m a skeptical obstinate ass, aren’t I? Good topic for discussion, Noel. 🙂
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I think before you can find any value in another living thing, you have to have empathy. You have to be able to feel something about / to / from the other life. I can understand pain so I don’t want pain, therefore I don’t want others to feel pain…type thing. Then you go up to I love my life, I want to live, I can feel you want to live, therefore I can assign a value for you to live. Now I have no idea the value of life, but I think that is where it has to start. Be well. Hugs
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[…] Here we had a discussion on the same […]
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