Israel and Palestine


Maajid Nawaz has this post regarding the latest UN resolution on Israel and knowing it is one of those topics that hardly end well, I am interested in hearing what your thoughts are and what do you think should be the solution. 

Is there a possibility of a peaceful resolution? 

And what kind of resolution is desired?

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

93 thoughts on “Israel and Palestine

  1. Mordanicus says:

    Honestly I don’t care about this squabble at all. The world should leave both isreal and palestine to themselves and focus on real issues like aids, hunger and so on.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Hariod Brawn says:

    “The prospect of a real change in American foreign policy looks slim to non-existent. Nor is there at present any evidence to suggest that Israel’s leaders are remotely interested in a genuine two-state solution… They seem oblivious to the damage that the occupation is doing to their society and to the reputation of their country abroad.”

    – Avi Shlaim, The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. melouisef says:

    The world is overpopulated and that is where the problems begin, but it is not politically correct to get people to stop breeding.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. As usual Nawaz starts with a political position and then tailors evidence to justify it. The reality is that politicians like Netanyahu, and most of the Israeli religious right, thrive on this conflict. These settlements aren’t for educated Israelis- they’re for idiots who talk about their “biblical claim” to the land, don’t send their children to school, and require their women to use head coverings. They’re also a perfect political base because nothing is as reliable as the ignorant voter obsessed with tribalism.

    Liked by 6 people

  5. john zande says:

    Send them all to Macquarie Island

    Liked by 1 person

  6. tildeb says:

    “Look at Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis in Yemen, Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi and his coup in Egypt, the chaos in Libya, even the Taliban, Lashkar al-Tayyiba, al-Shabab, Boko Haram and ISIS, sexual enslavement, beheadings, child soldiers, and the use of chemical weapons—the reality of the greater Middle East lies bare for us all to see. Yet as America’s UN Ambassador Samantha Power noted, this year the UN passed more resolutions against Israel than these other problems combined.”

    This is true. Israel is treated differently and held to a different standard than all other member states of the United Nations. It’s also true that there is a bias in many Western institutions like universities against Israel. So in this matter, there is a political consideration common throughout the Left that supports this bias.

    People simply do not know the history of this region since 1949. They take their anti-Israeli bias and use it backwards to filter out any and all Palestinian responsibility for this ongoing failure of creating the two state solution. People forget that Jordan invaded Israel and ended up losing the entire West Bank… an area the Palestinians already and in Treaty made no claim with Jordan. But Israel? All of a sudden the 3% of the West Bank Israel claims as a security zone fought for and won from Jordan after being invaded by a surprise attack? That 3% is the stumbling block to a two nation solution over an area Palestine has never claimed? Really? Palestinian refusal to even recognize Israel’s right to exist in spite of the UN resolution that created it now plays no part? Really? That Israel bulldozes illegal Israeli settlements beyond the 3% is regularly reported in the West? Hardly.

    The anti-Israeli bias is rich and deep and hypocritical and does its part to divorce finding a real solution with a natural ally and a displaced population… displaced by Jordanians moreso than any other country in the world including Israel.

    Until all regional parties who have a direct role in the peace process, are held to the SAME standard, all we in the West are doing with this hypocritical treatment of this ally is helping advance Russian interests while trying to maintain an oil-soaked alliance with the one country in the region that is completely antithetical to all Western liberal democratic values and a root cause of terrorism aimed directly at us, namely, Saudi Arabia and Wahabbism. Yes, look at how few UN resolutions there are against this barbaric kingdom and marvel at our willful hypocrisy. .

    Liked by 1 person

    • It’s absolutely true there’s anti-Israeli bias. Also, that that particular conflict is overblown. Also that people (and politicians) in Israel and Palestine have both raked in obscene fortunes by exploiting this conflict.
      At the end of the day a solid majority of over 60% of Israelis support a 2 state solution- and yet they’re held hostage by the religious idiots. The same religious idiots who formed the settler movement and who promote the mindset that led to the murder of Yitzhak Rabin and the prohibition of lgbt pride parades in Jerusalem.

      Liked by 2 people

      • john zande says:

        It is fascinating. Over 50% (I think it’s in the high 50’s) of Israeli’s are atheist. You mention that over 60% support the 2-state solution. They are a liberal nation. How on earth have they ended up with such a radical right-wing government?

        Liked by 2 people

        • The same way America has: apathy, laziness and idiocy. If progressives (younger ones especially) continue to disengage from reality because they feel it doesn’t matter who wins elections and what they wish to do, we’re all fucked. And, I feel we’re all fucked. Apathy and laziness led to Nazi Germany and Mussolini’s Italy, and they’ve now led to Trump’s America and an England that voted itself out of the EU. BTW, the ambassador to Israel that tRump has appointed is a right-wing nut-job who feels Israel has a right, given by God, to occupy the Gaza strip and an even bigger right to kill Palestinians. Yeah, nuclear war is now inevitable, so stick your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. We’re all fucked. Hard. Repeatedly, and without lubrication.

          Liked by 3 people

        • It’s one of those mathematical disasters, a bit like France, but worse. There are 15 different parties represented in the Knesset.

          Liked by 1 person

        • makagutu says:

          Usually fools make the most noise. Try being in a room with one idiot and ten sensible people, I bet the idjit will probably be in charge.
          There is an article I think Pink shared about how the minority get their way. Something to do with Halal meat or something

          Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      My good friend, let’s at least no be selective with the truth. The chaos in Libya are a blunder of the US and France and I don’t know who else. Yemen again it’s Saudis busy bombing the shit out of them. Sisi and the Egyptian problem I am not certain. Taliban is evidence of failed policies of invaders starting with the French, the Russians and finally the US. ISIS please! Boko Haram fight for control of resources being exploited by multinationals from elsewhere. Al Shabaab I will find out. Where does that leave us?
      Israel is trying to bully Senegal for supporting that resolution.
      What about the history prior to 49? Does it count or that is under the bus or is it carpet?
      Maybe you are not aware that whatever you call the west has been advancing their agenda in the rest of the world for the longest.
      Maybe you should look at the mirror, it might just be you who is willfully economical with the truth and hypocritical

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      • tildeb says:

        The point I raised was in regards to the UN and all its anti-Israeli resolutions is that Israel is held to a different standard. Nothing you or Pink raises counters this point. And I am well aware of the pre 1949 history of the area and the UN partition plan of 1947. But don’t stop just there in that region: look at the rippling effects from the holocaust and how it laid the right conditions for creating a Jewish state where the majority of the population was already Jewish including the ‘occupied’ West Bank and Jerusalem (1820 census).

        See how you go along with the term ‘occupied’ as if Israeli citizens were the ones doing so on ‘illegal’ lands? And when the Arab nations that invaded Israel ended up losing key areas from which they launched their attacks, all of a sudden Israel is the bad guy for not handing them back without negotiation! Again, Israel has always been trying to negotiate.. but with Arab leadership that refused on principle to accept Israeli legitimacy.What would you do when faced by such fundamental hostile intransigence?

        I selected 1949 because that’s when Israel came into existence.by the act of the UN and the international community it represented. That’s when Jordan invaded the West Bank. That’s when the Jordanian army burned synagogues and banned Jews from praying at the Western Wall. The UN passed no resolution condemning this invasion, nor any resolution against Jordan for their illegal occupation. There was no resolution condemning the next three wars against Israel through invasion by all its Arab ‘neighbours’ nor any resolutions condemning atrocities committed by them. No, no, no. The messaging is clear: it’s all about Big Ol’ Bad Ol’ Israel. Such a meanie. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt have never given a flying fig about the Palestinians and they have used them for their own political ends without the slightest condemnation from us in the West or from the United Nations who has passed more anti-Israeli resolutions than all other resolutions combined. This is a clue that there something more going on here than appears to the susceptible well-meaning individual in the West all too eager to buy into the anti-Israeli messaging by stupidly and artificially conflating the Israeli government – that deserves legitimate criticism for many policies and actions – to be equivalent to, say, a Saudi Arabia or a Taliban government… neither of which has a fraction of the resolutions passed against them for their anti-enlightenment, anti-human policies and actions .

        That’s the propaganda at work and to effect.

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        • Nawaz makes the point that the settlements are illegal, but that’s irrelevant because the UN is racist. And as the UN already condemns settlements passing another resolution only furthers the bias.
          The problem with that is that it’s neither a consistent argument or position.
          It’s not that the UN shouldn’t condemn Israel, it’s that it should also condemn Saudi Arabia. To pretend bias excuses or justifies illegality is absurd.
          And let’s not make the mistake of equating the ruler and the ruled. There may have been equal carnage during the Spanish civil war- but then the winner took all. The same is true of Israel.

          Liked by 1 person

          • tildeb says:

            Some settlements are illegal. Some illegal Israeli settlements are bulldozed by the Israeli government. We don’t hear about this, however, do we Pink? We are led by the nose to believe that all Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal and you’ve bought into this propaganda.

            Look, any lasting peace cannot occur as long as each Palestinian government, and the military wings of Hamas and Hezbollah refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist. This – not illegal Israeli settlements – is the fundamental problem that no one here seems too willing to grant much argumentative power yet is absolutely fundamental to maintaining ongoing conflict.

            When Egypt granted Israel recognition for the right to exist, Israel settled with Egypt and returned land won in war. When Jordan granted Israel recognition for the right to exist, Israel settled with Jordan and returned land won in war. Israel has a track record of successful negotiations with willing peace partners.

            But let’s pretend this is of no concern. Israel’s bad, right?

            Now let’s look at those countries that do not recognize Israel’s right to exist, shall we? 18 of the 21 UN members in the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen; a further 10 members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Chad, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger, and Pakistan.

            Isn’t that an interesting list?

            Where’s the UN resolution condemning this failure by the Arab League and affiliates to recognize a member state? Where’s the righteous condemnation of the illiberal Left for this guarantee policy ENSURING ongoing conflict with Israel?

            Don’t see it here.

            Oh right. They’re brown people in the Arab League so we can’t possibly hold them to the same standard as civilized nations… like Israel! Let’s continue to condemn Israel and turn a blind eye to the gross excesses these countries regularly produce as far as UN condemnation is concerned.

            Good grief, people. Look who you’re siding with. Look at those countries. Look at their human rights records. Now look at how consistently they raise never-ending condemnations of Israel using the United Nations as their soapbox but I can’t recall any of them condemning any of the other countries on this list for their far greater human rights abuses than agreed illegal Israeli settlements beyond the security perimeter in the West Bank (four invasions will help convince the more recalcitrant that a buffer zone for security really is needed).

            Strong is the hypocrisy I am feeling here.

            Like

          • john zande says:

            Look, any lasting peace cannot occur as long as each Palestinian government, and the military wings of Hamas and Hezbollah refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist

            Tildeb, didn’t the Palestinians recognise Israels right to exist in 1993? From what I understand (and I could be wrong) the Israeli government has since changed the wording to recognising “a Jewish state” which the Palestinians have, naturally, refused to agree to. It’s deliberately provocative considering they’d already met the original demand.

            Liked by 1 person

          • makagutu says:

            It’s unlikely there will be lasting peace.
            It must involve economic empowerment of the Palestinians.
            The flow of weapons must be checked and this ridiculous myths about god and land must be put to rest.

            Liked by 1 person

          • tildeb says:

            Yes, Arafat did say as much but you’re suggestion that there was a later change away from ‘Israel’ to a ‘Jewish’ state was a stumbling block isn’t the case. The original partition plan called for a Jewish and Arab partition for Israel’s boundaries. Again, remember the context in which the UN was acting to create a homeland for Jews after the holocaust. Claims now that the notion of a Jewish state is somehow an intentional blocking move by Israel from supporting a two nation solution is bogus. There is widespread support from Israelis for this solution… as long as security concerns (based on 4 very real Arab wars of invasion) are met. And the very first step for this security must be the recognition by all Arab partners that Israel as a Jewish state has the right to exist.

            Liked by 1 person

          • john zande says:

            Well, it does appear to have been a huge stumbling block, and an uneccessary one. A deliberate one thrown in to destroy hopes of peace. Like you said, Israel got on fine with Egypt after they recognised Israel’s right to exist… So, why the change with the Palestinians? Why the deliberate provocation?

            Like

          • tildeb says:

            I might be misunderstanding you but the Jewish homeland has always been the central pillar for Israel the state. Recognizing one means recognizing the other. They are indistinguishable.

            Liked by 1 person

          • john zande says:

            Nah, the word is Israel, not Jew. If Israel is filled with Jews, then great, but this does not alter the fact that the Israeli government deliberately changed the wording after the Palestinians did what the Israeli’s wanted. You did say this was the stumbling block. Well, it wasn’t. It was sorted in 93.

            Like

          • tildeb says:

            No, John, it wasn’t ‘sorted’ at all.

            Since when did Brazil or Australia or the United States have to argue with anyone about their ‘right to exist’? Does California have to receive official word from Delaware that they have the ‘right to exist’ before entering some state-to-state trade deal that doesn’t include reparations to Mexico and/or Spain?

            I mean, seriously. Israel, as I have already said, was an intentional creation of a Jewish state separate from an Arab one from the beginning. That’s why the partition was based on Jewish majorities.

            The idea that the Israeli government introduced this notion as a stumbling block is a non-starter. That’s why I said it was a fundamental aspect of Israel since its founding. A Jewish state.

            And it exists. Right smack dab in the Near Middle East. Arafat ‘recognizing’ this fact is hardly a concession… unless conceding to reality is now a Arab virtue rather than a human necessity. What matters isn’t so much the recognition of the right but the recognition that it’s a Jewish state that has the right to exist. I should think that point would be obvious when it comes to establishing lasting peace through treaties with Israel because without that recognition, then one isn’t recognizing reality on the ground. Israel – it should shock no one – is in fact a Jewish state. Always has been. This is not a point of barter.

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          • john zande says:

            The Palestinians announced (formally) in 93 that Israel had the right to exist.

            Why are you ignoring this?

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Now the part I don’t understand from you is simple, on one hand you ask if Brazil had to ask her neighbors for the right to exist and on the other hand admit Israel was created forcefully in the middle east. Are they the same things or am I missing something?

            Like

          • tildeb says:

            As far as I know, all nation states have had to some extent been forcefully created. I think Israel was going to come into existence regardless of the UN (thanks very much to arms and a few planes shipped in from Russian-controlled Czechoslovakia… NOT the US it must be noted). How long it would last without UN legal support is another story entirely.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Maybe left to their own devices as others have suggested should be the way. Though I mentioned earlier that this will have Palestine at a disadvantage.
            And with peace who will make money?

            Like

          • tildeb says:

            Don’t forget that none of the Arab nations including Jordan who controlled Transjordan after the British mandate expired has made any tangible steps in setting up and supporting an independent Palestinian state. Jordan was created to be the homeland of the Palestinians, after all. But nope: all the criticism falls on Israel here. That’s a clue that the Palestinian issue is far more about Arab politics in the region than it is about passing more anti-Israeli resolutions in the UN. The Palestinians are far more a useful pawn in the Arab political game than they are the victims of Israeli suppression. The entire West Bank after partition could have become a de facto Palestinian homeland by Jordanian fiat that had nothing to do with Israel and who would have been powerless to stop it. Never happened. You’ve got to ask yourself why. I think it’s because a Palestinian state carved out of Jordan’sa West Bank is no more in Jordan’s best interests than it is in Israel’s.

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          • john zande says:

            With all due respect, Tildeb (you know I love you), but you’re wrong

            From wiki

            In 1993, there was an official exchange of letters between Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Chairman Arafat, in which Arafat declared that “the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel’s right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid.”[17] In 2009 Prime Minister Ehud Olmert demanded the Palestinian Authority’s acceptance of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state, which the Palestinian Authority rejected.[18] The Knesset plenum gave initial approval in May 2009 to a bill criminalising the public denial of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state, with a penalty of up to a year in prison.[19]

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          • makagutu says:

            Why has the security Council not thought it prudent to recognize Palestine as a full member state of the UN? Does it have something to do with her allies who sit in the security Council or this is a small matter?

            Like

          • tildeb says:

            I presume because they don’t have a state… although they do have some voting rights.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            You find the irony in that?
            The powers that be created a state of Israel and forgot about Palestine. Would recognizing it as a state be a good way forward, I mean the UN member states recognize Somali!

            Like

          • I don’t think it’s me who’s bought into anything. The way you’re framing the issue it’s as if Israel is one big settlement. Or that the settlement movement is somehow synonymous with the existence of Israel. It isn’t. What you’re doing, as is the case with Nawaz, is going with the storyline peddled by Israel’s religious right- which doesn’t have anything close to majority support in Israel. For an interesting, Israeli take on settlements have a look at this: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-10-14/the-rise-and-fall-of-israel-s-settlement-movement

            Liked by 1 person

          • tildeb says:

            Again, Pink… context.

            Put another way, if we had a two state context, the settlement movement would die a natural death because the borders would be fixed. Until then, you’re going to have Jews using the biblical reference for taking whatever they want in the name of piety. But blaming only one side in this ongoing state of uncertainty doesn’t aid the peace process. There are legitimate settlements as well as illegal ones but framing settlements itself as if this is the major roadblock to lasting peace and vilifying Israel alone is absolutely counterproductive and hypocritical.

            Liked by 1 person

          • As I see it I’m blaming the relative adults. The ones with the control. The side that has had the means to create what could have been a groundbreaking program of integration, education and de-religionisation in the middle east.

            Like

        • makagutu says:

          My question might be naive; I would like to know if the neighbors participated in the resolution to create the state of Israel? If on the other hand it was done like the British did elsewhere creating arbitrary boundaries, then talking about peace is idle talk.
          Why was there no resolutions condemning those actions by the same body that had created the state of Israel? Was it an admission that maybe it was a stupid thing to do in the first place?

          Liked by 1 person

          • tildeb says:

            Context is important here if one is seeking understanding rather than ammunition for condemnation. And the context for the creation of a Jewish homeland by the UN combines the reality of the holocaust and the end of the British mandate. A homeland was going to be created by Jews for Jews in this area no matter what anyone else had to say in the matter… again, by those determined Zionists having survived the holocaust and dedicating themselves to never allowing it to happen again, Jews were not going to be denied this homeland without a terrible war being fought over it. This was the reality on the ground – one that was already unfolding as the British prepared to end their Mandate – that the UN faced in Palestine and Transjordan. The partition of lands based on Jewish majorities and the creation of the state of Israel was the best they could do. One cannot carve out a new nation based on one criterian and POOF! into existence a single state in a multiethnic, multireligious region without creating a lot of unfairness and legitimate historical grievances and legal complaints. That’s why it’s still such a gong show.

            The hard part is moving forward based on accepting the going show. Long term solutions are possible and the state will have to evolve its citizenship criteria as reality of its ethnic and religious population changes over time. This is only possible in a country that allows for majority and coalition rule. And Israel is the only game in town in the region that has this form of government. That’s why I think it’s counterproductive to the peace process to continue to rely on historical grievances as a basis for opinion and vilify only one side. This approach harms the peace process itself and guarantees ongoing conflict because the reality is that Israel – including all the legitimacy and unfairness in its creation and defense – is here to stay.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            I wasn’t looking for ammunition, that really is not my aim. I want only to understand.

            Like

          • tildeb says:

            The way I look at these ongoing problems is towards a solution that has a track record in history that works for all, and so this means a form of governance that recognizes the supremacy in law of the individual, of shared rights and shared freedoms and shared restrictions.

            Here’s the first roadblock: way too many people presume this principle of individual autonomy in law is actually a Western imported value system – a colonial left-over – rather than what it is: a necessary step to lasting peace and prosperity between Others. No doubt it’s my Canadian identity that gives me this confidence in seeing the principle work every day in a vastly diverse population. If this is simply a colonial and Western value, then it should be widely exported because it does work.

            I also know that Islam when politicized is antithetical to this principle. In the Middle East, politicized Islam is not a solution… except as a Final Solution. Groups that represent politicized Islam therefore are the enemy of lasting and cooperative peace. This includes Hezbollah and Hamas. They are non starters. Israel is. That’s the form of government where the principle can be brought into being over time. It’;s a process and not an event. And that’s why I find vilification of Israel but not groups antithetical to cooperative peace through shared values so hypocritical.

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          • makagutu says:

            Some people believe if the community survives, or is healthy, the individual is protected. I don’t think there is a one model fit all. And as that great poet said, there’s no finality in the affairs of men.

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  7. koppieop says:

    …Is there a possibility of a peaceful resolution?
    Yes, there certainly is one.
    —And what kind of resolution is desired?—
    I’m afraid no Resolution (capital R intended) will help anymore. What the Middle East region – and anywhere else, for that matter – needs, is something that is probably a utopia, namely that people get rid of the nail Mr Nawaz rightly hits on:
    ___the overwhelming narcissism of our Abrahamic faiths___ .
    (“Biblical claims to the land”, as ThePink Agendist points out. Who is expecting whom to take such a demand seriously?
    A healthy New Year to anyone who happens to read this, either still in 2016 already as in 2017!
    .-

    Liked by 2 people

    • makagutu says:

      Hello buddy
      Hope you and yours had a good holiday.
      Happy 2017
      I think the myths need to die

      Like

      • koppieop says:

        Thank you my friendly host, and a fine and healthy 2017 to you, too.
        As for holidays, my wife and I will take advantage of being able to find some nice place after families with children have returned to their homes. March and April also offer splendid, albeit less reliable, weather conditions.
        Since coincidences will remain happening in our lives, I’m afraid there will always be people who atrribute them to be “the miracle they were expecting”.
        .-

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  8. After Sadat was assassinated following the Camp David Accords, and with the rise of the Israeli right-wing, all political solutions for the Palestinian crisis have been and would be dead on arrival.

    The entire Middle East region is in chaos. The failed Arab Spring movement, virulent sectarianism, geopolitical opportunism, the perverse economics of oil, and the specter of catastrophic climate change, will keep it that way indefinitely.

    Liked by 3 people

  9. shelldigger says:

    With all of the history in my lifetime of the Middle East as a basis for my understanding, no. There is no hope of peace in a land where all one sees is enemies.

    Like

  10. Scottie says:

    I agree with Pink. I believe Israel is causing a huge problem it simply doesn’t need. I agreed with the U.N. Vote and I agreed with Sec of State Kerry. The settlements must stop. It is not only a slap in the face to the Palestinians but also to the USA. We give Billions in aid money to Israel, and they insult and demean us. We support and protect them with things like the “iron dome” yet they tell us to shut up and mind our own business. Other nations look at what the Israelis are doing, using our money, and blame us. It causes us problems a “great and good friend” wouldn’t do to a “friend”. However the rise of the political hard right, and the religious zealots of both Israel and the USA ( who have completely different reasons and interests in an expanded Israel ) make any kind of solution impossible. Because of the way Israel has acted the last more than a decade to the US I support pulling all aid from their country, all support, all military hardware. Let the parties deal with it without our involvement and with the regions neighbors. I bet there would very quickly be a huge change in attitude among the israeli government. Hugs

    Liked by 4 people

    • Nan says:

      I support pulling all aid from their country

      I agree. Unfortunately, the religious right will never let it happen. After all, Israel is our biblical parent and what did God say? Honor thy mother and father.

      Liked by 4 people

      • Scottie says:

        Yes, you are correct. Hugs

        Like

        • tildeb says:

          With this strong anti-Israeli sentiment, you are a most excellent friend and ally of the Party of God. That’s what Hezbolah means. They are a Shi’a group supported by Syria and funded with arms and trainers by Iran.

          Nice. Doesn’t that give you pause?

          With friends like you, the rest of us in the West might as well simply tear up our promises and alliances because you have fallen hard for the ‘brown skinned people’ propaganda (and double standard) and are now what Putin calls a ‘foolish spokesman’ for those who wish you the ultimate harm: not just your death (they throw people like you from tall places, Scottie) but the destruction of your country and with it the means to defend the enlightenment values that allows you to live as you do.

          This astounding reversal (of supporting your enemy at the expense of your friend) should be a clue that something has gone badly askew in your reasoning here. I wonder what it might be?

          Like

          • Scottie says:

            Sorry Tildeb. I disagree with everything you wrote. I have watched enough documentaries, read enough news reports, seen the photos, and even have even read reports and articles by Israeli soldiers. They clearly document and show Israel’s complete disregard and inhuman treatment of the Palestinians. Simply put the Israelis did this to themselves, and once in the hole decided to keep digging. The Palestinians have been treated inhumanly by the same group that demands everyone respect and treat them so much better. Hugs

            Liked by 2 people

          • Scottie says:

            @ Tildeb, even though some Muslims do throw people like me off buildings in their countries, have you noticed the things orthodox Jewish people do and say about people like me in EVERY country. In Israel a guy got out of Prison for harming people at a gay pride parade and then went right out and stabbed and killed a few more at another pride parade. So really no reason to feel love to any group that harms others for religion. Hugs

            Liked by 1 person

          • You do realize that in 1948 over 700 thousand Palestinians were fled or were forced to leave their homes, right? Some spent the rest of their lives in refugee camps.
            How do you suppose those people, or their children and grandchildren, are “our enemies”? Your comment implies that as a group they’re the enemy. Not an atheist, agnostic, believer in democracy or lgbt individual amongst them? Palestinian = Hezbollah?

            Liked by 3 people

      • makagutu says:

        The part I don’t get in all this is Jesus spoke American and landed somewhere there. Why care about Israel?

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      • Peter says:

        I recall arguing with ColorStorm on the Christian right support for Israel. I pointed out to ColorStorm that the Christian right are not really pro-Jewish rather they are pro Israel. It is solely because they are excited about their Book of Revelation interpretations.

        Traditionally the Christian right were extreme persecutors of the Jews.

        The basic rule one sees everywhere is that the more religious a group becomes the more likely they are to persecute people of other religion. In this regard there seems equality among religions both in regard to the propensity to persecute and be persecuted.

        I used to see Buddhism as exceptions, but after viewing their recent treatment of the Rohingya Muslims in East Asia I realise they seem susceptible to the same tendency to persecute religious minorities.

        Since losing my own faith I see religion as a very negative influence on the world. Sort of like as a very successful virus.

        Liked by 3 people

    • makagutu says:

      Me too agree with Pink

      Liked by 2 people

  11. amjad441 says:

    UN RESOLUTIONS won’t do anything until & unless parties to the conflict try to resolve. UN can act as a medium but can’t thrust these resolution on the countries at conflict. For example we have plethora of resolutions passed by UN on Kashmir but none of them are implemented indeed.

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  12. lptrey says:

    I stand with Israel. Jerusalem is their Holy City. They wanted to negotiate with Palestine but the Palestinians refused the proposed state solution. Nothing will change until this part of the Muslim world ends its burning hatred for Zion.

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    • john zande says:

      You should perhaps get a better grip on history. Hebron is the holy city of the Jews, who herald from Judah. The Israelites worshiped El, as exampled in the actual name, Mamlekhet (Kingdom) Yisra’el.. El, the father of the Canaanite pantheon.

      Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      You can stand with whomever you wish. Jerusalem has seen different settlers over time.
      Do you have evidence that the Palestinians refused to negotiate or you are repeating what you heard elsewhere?

      Like

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