If Adam and Eve who were perfect, personally created and taught by God himself (according to the Bible) failed the Devil’s tests, where is the fairness in God expecting us to defeat the Devil especially when we are imperfect and never seen God?


I would go beyond this question and say that even Adam and Eve shouldn’t have been punished for their small transgression.

The chapter of genesis that talks about the fall of man says thus

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?

The good book says this of the tree

For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.

from where I am justified in concluding that A&E were dumb as a dodo. They did not know shit. In fact, I would go as far as argue that the serpent knew more shit than the two combined which brings us to some very interesting questions

  1. why was the serpent created sly? did she just become sly?
  2. is knowledge bad? or was it just particular knowledge the gods were not interested in men having?

But back to the question, how are we, who if the story were story, several generations removed from Adam, who were not in the garden where, if god was present, his presence and goodness and whatever else one feels in the presence of a god could be felt, there was enough room and time for the serpent to be crafty, it is akin to asking a Nigerian who has is so far removed from the state to obey its directives.

This brings us to a final question, when the author of genesis writes that god saw that whatever she had created was good, what does this mean?

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

175 thoughts on “If Adam and Eve who were perfect, personally created and taught by God himself (according to the Bible) failed the Devil’s tests, where is the fairness in God expecting us to defeat the Devil especially when we are imperfect and never seen God?

  1. Tish Farrell says:

    Snakes alive, Mak. These questions are too hard. But you’ve reminded me that there is a different version of the A & E story wherein they are treated more kindly in the end, i.e. as one might wish a more understanding deity to behave, but now I can’t remember where I read it. Somewhere on wordpress.

    Like

  2. shelldigger says:

    Anyone can tell you it was a setup. If god knows all (omniscient) then she knew about the the snake and knew A & E would eat from tree of knowledge.

    …and if they were perfect and failed the test, how then are we the imperfect born sinners supposed to fair better?

    To answer the final question, if it isn’t a shithole country it is good. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      If she was omnipotent, she could have sent the serpent the wrong way, kept the seeds of the tree in her pocket ( women have many pockets in their handbags)

      If all loving and knowing hell was waiting, would have not created them anyway

      Liked by 1 person

  3. the way we are made in the image of God is that we have FREE WILL. , needed to create the style of life we wish to live but the rule is, under the umbrella of obedience to God, not our own ideas of what is right and wrong because we are nothing with Gods wisdom, which we are only graced with by the Holy Spirit and we only have access to the Holy Spirit by full obedience to Gods Will.

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    • makagutu says:

      this is confusing. we need the holy sprite to know what is right or wrong, but to get the sprite we must believe in god’s will which the holy sprite gives. Someone give me some spirit.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Scottie says:

      Doesn’t god have a perfect plan? God is all powerful and all knowing? So god knows what will happen, and so knew that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit. So really no free will. However there is one glaring problem. IF they did not know the difference between right and wrong before eating the fruit of the forbidden tree then they couldn’t know eating it was wrong. Even if told not to do it, they couldn’t know it was wrong if they needed it to know what was right or wrong. Hugs

      Liked by 1 person

      • Adam and Eve are warned not to eat of the one tree, but they are tempted to believe that they will mistrust, doubt, second guess and finally defy Gods advice and go do the thing anyway even though everything they have already has been given to them by the same source and even though they do not need what the tree has but in their mind they desire it, Re read and re read what the ” serpent” is telling them is going to happen when they eat of the tree. We have to think deeply to read the meaning of Adam and Eve.

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        • Scottie says:

          You avoided the point. Your god is omnipotent. Your god is all knowing and all powerful correct? So he would have know what would happen with the stage he set. He created a being he knew would fail. There is no free will if god already knows what is going to happen according to his perfect plan. Also without having the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve would have taken the suggestion of anyone who talked to them. They were not suspicious of the snake because they did not know what evil was. See the problem. Snake says hey its ok no one will mind. So they say OK. Hugs

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    • basenjibrian says:

      This is utter, utter nonsense. Your “God” is omniscient, so It (because such an entity cannot be given a personal pronoun) knows from the beginning of time that almost all humans will fail. Calvin is the only logical theologian.

      So…why did It create us? As some kind of nasty game to play with? and why should we believe such an entity has anthing human beings would recognize as “Love”. (Said in the tone of an inquisitor about to light the bonfire!)

      Liked by 1 person

  4. God is love. Think of all human beings as needing to lose their egos to become empty vessels that allow Gods love to pour through them to anything they encounter during their life. Love is stronger then evil. Love is always available to each one of us if we do not refuse it by disobedience to Gods Will.

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    • makagutu says:

      God is love, love is god and everything is god’s will! You need to make up your mind

      Liked by 1 person

      • Ubi Dubium says:

        In the bible I read that that god is love, god is jealous, and love is not jealous. I don’t think anything DoveCatherine has said has made this any less confusing.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Mak, remember what I’ve been telling you for years now: There is no god but Allah, and Mohammad is His prophet. From the Koran: 2:120: “Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you till you follow their religion. Say: “Verily, Islâmic Guidance is the only Guidance. And if you were to follow their desires after what you have received of Knowledge, then you would have against Allâh neither any protector nor helper.” You have to stop having discussions with christians about their false ideas on god. Please, I beg you! If you don’t do this, you’ll be damned forever to Hell. You don’t want that, do you?

        Liked by 1 person

      • God is pure love. God does not change. The bible says God is ” I AM ‘. Words are inadequate but all we have in this format of communication. Nothing we do changes God, God does not abandon us but we can choose to distance ourselves away from God by disobeying Gods Will for us.

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    • basenjibrian says:

      from observing the physical universe, how can you spout this pablum? from observing how the Men of God almost universally behave, on what grounds can you make this statement? On reading of the concept of ”
      Hell”, you statements are almost breathtaking in their wickedness.

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  5. jim- says:

    The last question there, the answer I was taught is about like this. God watched these things “until” they were good, or until they obeyed. In other words, he watched them until they could be trusted to carry on without him in a developed, evolutionary sense. Then he’d go on to the next phase.

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  6. john zande says:

    Did fire always burn flesh, and water always drown babies?

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Mary says:

    You know it’s all a bunch of BS and it’s impossible to argue with the closed distorted mind of a religious person.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Mystro says:

    I think the key is that the knowledge gained from the tree was that of good and evil. That means, prior to eating that fruit, A&E had no concept of good or evil. Defiance, disobedience, and malice would be impossible. They were perfectly agreeable, amoral gardeners. God says, ‘Don’t eat that’ A&E reply ‘ok’ and don’t eat it. Serpent says ‘Eat that’ A&E reply ‘ok’ and they eat it. With no knowledge of good or evil, there is no reason for them to not trust the serpent entirely, no reason to hold god’s wishes over the wishes of a serpent, no reason not to obey the last instructions they were given – no matter who gave them. If god had returned in time to stop them eating the fruit, I imagine A&E would have gotten confused. “We’re not to eat the fruit, then we are, then we aren’t again. Would you two please sort this out? Mutually exclusive directives give us headaches.”

    To be convicted of a crime, the person who committed the act must have the intellectual fortitude to understand that what they did was wrong. A&E did not, so should not be held accountable.

    Liked by 3 people

    • makagutu says:

      Brilliant. Nothing to add here.

      Liked by 1 person

      • The story of Adam and Eve is about our loss of innocence when we give into the sin of pride. When they were called by God after they ate of the tree they hid themselves with leaves, they experienced shame for the first time. They lost their innocence when they disobeyed God. We lose our innocence when we first sin and every time we sin.

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        • Nan says:

          It’s pretty obvious that you are totally “bible-indoctrinated.” Too bad because there’s so much more in this world to see and enjoy.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Yep, like Islam, the One, true religion. From the Koran: 9:34: “O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the Jewish rabbis and the Christian monks who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder men from the Way of Allâh. And those who hoard up gold and silver, and spend it not in the Way of Allâh — announce unto them a painful torment.”
            When, oh when, will the foolish Christians open their eyes to the TRUTH and stopped proselytizing the falsehoods of their abominable, dishonest, untrue faith! Heed them not, oh children of Allah, for they shall use every lie in their foul nature to convert you to their damnable religion! For theirs is the path to damnation, and theirs is the path to an eternity with Satan! Allahu Akbar!

            Liked by 1 person

          • Mary says:

            Yes please….your intruder is making me nauseous….so much BS and it goes round and round in complete utter gibberish. I have my doubts if it’s even is a real person with real beliefs and thoughts. It’s one thing to have an intelligent discussion with, but this is getting ridiculous.

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          • And that is because God is love and floats on wings of white cotton wherein he pats you on your back and fills you with more love. It is up to us to accept the flowery love of God as it arrives on wings of cotton by using “freewill” and accepting all of that love in a big, big bowl and eating it down like chili and cheese. For love is there for you and I can go on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on like this until the feather wings of cottony love of God touch you, not in a bad way, but in a good way, and then I’ll continue to go on, and on, and on, and on, until you realize I’m simply never going to give you another answer other than the one I just did or engage you in any conversation but this one. P.S. God loves you. 😀

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          • Nan says:

            ❤ ❤ ❤ 😘😍

            Liked by 1 person

          • makagutu says:

            I am tired of her/ him. It’s plainly annoying

            Like

        • Mystro says:

          As I said, A&E didn’t know it was wrong. The couldn’t with no knowledge of good and evil. As they had no mens rea, sin was impossible for them. Punishing them was completely unjust.

          On a personal note, I have never sinned in my life and I resent the implication that I have when you say ‘we sin’. Please speak only for yourself. Slander like that just isn’t polite.

          Liked by 2 people

          • the bible is the story of faith in God which is not ” understanding” then believing. The bible clearly says Gods way is not our way. Faith is believing without understanding, the way a child trusts their loving parents and obey them, That is Adam and EVe and each of us Adam and Eve. and by the way each of us is also Noah in the ark. They are storys not literal , story about truth.

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          • makagutu says:

            Why have a brain, the seat of judgement?

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          • We discern between good and evil.

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          • makagutu says:

            What was Adam and Eve to do with theirs?

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          • Mystro says:

            Oh, I understand the bible god perfectly. He’s a childish, evil bully and a tyrant. He’s despicable and ought to be hated by anyone with the slightest bit of morality. Again, please only speak for yourself. I have no A&E in me, nor do I have any Noah. I don’t say nasty things about you, do I?

            Liked by 2 people

        • Scottie says:

          Do you think the story is just a moral fable or do you think it is a real event? If it is a real even it can not be about the sin of pride because they did not have the capacity for it before they ate the fruit. See as a real event as it is described it doesn’t work. It can not work. Sorry. Hugs

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        • makagutu says:

          You actually believe god’s vision is not good where bushes are involved?

          Liked by 1 person

        • Ron says:

          Yet according to the scriptures, we are born sinful and have no choice in the matter. And logic dictates that product design flaws originate with the designer, not the things produced. If God created everything, then God — by necessity — must assume responsibility for all our imperfections. Blaming mankind for being imperfect by design is the equivalent of blaming those born with Tourette’s for failing to control their tics.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Nan says:

            Besides, this whole idea came from Paul … who was nothing but a wanna-be preacher.

            Liked by 1 person

          • He was awesome in the Beatles, though.

            Liked by 1 person

          • it is our difficulty in dwelling in disobedience, hurting ourselves and being hurt by others that the Redeemer was sent to the world to show us the way. Gods will is written on our hearts but we have free will or we would be robots and not made in the image of God.

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          • Ron says:

            There’s no way around it. If God created us imperfect, then God must also answer for our imperfections.

            If God gave us the ability to act contrary to God’s intended wishes, then God is either illogical, or indifferent to our actions.

            Liked by 1 person

          • we have responsibility, once we reach the age of reason. Our parents ideally should be the bridge to God for us. Not always so unfortunately, never the less Gods will is etched in our being, its there if we grow up mature, develop self discipline and take responsibility. We have a choice, to choose well or to choose irresponsibly, but our ability to choose is the greatest gift we have.

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          • Ron says:

            “Obey my dictates or face punishment” is a gift of choice on par with that of a mobster who demands “protection” money.

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          • the dictate is to love one another.

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          • Nan says:

            Sure haven’t seen much of that …

            Liked by 1 person

          • Its a daily struggle, we are surrounded by distractions and the wrong imformation , peer pressure, deception, manipulation …..but nothing any worse then existed when Christ walked the Earth. He never made excuses for sin. He would just say, ” Stop sinning.” I love that.

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          • Nan says:

            But if your “God” is so all-powerful, why are Christians distracted? Surely she is able to fill your life, heart, and soul with Godly Love so powerful that nothing can deter you from showing her love to the world.

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          • we are pilgrims here in this world. God is spirit, not he or she.

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          • Nan says:

            Your “spirit” is consistently referred to as “he” so perhaps you should spread the word among your fellow believers that they’re doing it all wrong.

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          • Im not a feminist that gets insecure if the He is used universally. God is God.

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          • There is but One True God. From the Koran: 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends, they are but friends to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as friends, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allâh guides not those people who are the wrong­doers.”

            Liked by 1 person

          • makagutu says:

            Is god a she spirit? Or a he spirit?

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          • makagutu says:

            You tell us. You told my friend Nan god is spirit

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          • If you don’t know , try harder.

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          • makagutu says:

            Why should I try harder?

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          • seek and you will find it, you’re stuck on the surface, concerned with gender of all things. Search deeper.

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          • makagutu says:

            Wow, what exactly do you think I should seek? How have you arrived at the conclusion I am stuck on gender?

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          • A penguin spirit. A transgendered penguin spirit.

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          • makagutu says:

            This is confusing.

            Liked by 1 person

          • makagutu says:

            She gave you freewill just for that and this freewill is the only reason you’re going to hell. Who told you it was yours to use?

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          • I did when I sold it to her.

            Like

          • Ron says:

            @dovcatherine

            The preacher says the sole duty of man is “to fear God and obey his commandments.”

            That sounds like the makings of an abusive relationship.

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          • You have to forgive humans for the words they used sometimes. How can anyone fear God who is pure love?

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          • Ron says:

            How loving is a God who allegedly cursed the earth and its inhabitants because the first two humans ate some forbidden magic fruit? Or drowned everyone in a flood? Or sent famine, plagues and pestilence? Or caused the death of all the Egyptian first-born? Or rained fire and brimstone on the inhabitants of S&G? Or turned a man’s wife into a pillar of salt for the mistake of looking back? Or killed a man for trying to keep the ark from falling? Or killed 70,000 people because their king took a census? And that’s just off the top of my head. There are numerous stories where this ‘loving’ God commands wars and genocide.

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          • makagutu says:

            maybe god’s love includes drowning people

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          • Be wary of the lies of the christians, my friend. From the Koran: 2:120: “Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you till you follow their religion. Say: “Verily, Islâmic Guidance is the only Guidance. And if you were to follow their desires after what you have received of Knowledge, then you would have against Allâh neither any protector nor helper.”

            Like

          • the Will of God is all that is best for us. We curse ourselves, we sabotage ourselves, we create obstacles that trip us off the right path and lead to hopelessness and misery by choosing not to obey the will of God.

            Like

          • Ron says:

            Then we’ve circled right back to my earlier comment that this has all the makings of an abusive relationship.

            Love must be freely given. To demand others subjugate themselves to your will is not love: it’s tyranny.

            Liked by 2 people

          • if you touch a hot stove you will get burned. That happens when we make a choice opposite of what God wills for us, You get burned, only we can prevent the sorrow, We know when we are reaching over to touch a hot stove. If we don’t know we haven’t reached the age of reason. Its not our fault, someone who is supposed to be protecting us is not doing so. We have only ourselves to blame later on.

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          • Nan says:

            Well, you know what? I’m not worried because my bad choices are my own and I’ll suffer any consequences that come with them. Your “God” has nothing to do with it.

            Liked by 1 person

          • that’s your free will to use as you wish.

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          • makagutu says:

            As William Foote wrote, we will be our own lawyers before the heavenly court, let the believer leave us alone

            Liked by 2 people

          • Ron says:

            If you touch a hot stove you get burned — momentarily. But loving parents don’t threaten to shove their kids into a hot oven for all eternity as punishment for failing to heed their advice not to touch the stove.

            Responsible parents assess their children’s capabilities and focus on creating a safe environment. They actively monitor their children’s activities and take action before things get out of control. Unsafe items that might appeal to a youngster are placed out of reach or locked away. During extended absences, guardianship is entrusted to caregivers who value and support those goals.

            Loving parents provide guidance, teach self-discipline, acknowledge honest efforts, praise achievements, and offer encouragement. They have reasonable expectations, set appropriate rules and guidelines, communicate them clearly, and apply them with fairness and consistency. Physical punishment is reserved for extreme misbehaviour, and administered only as a last resort once all other alternatives have been explored and exhausted.

            With that in mind, how does God stack up as a “loving father”?

            Like

          • loving parents often raise children who defy whatever they told them and end up with deadly diseases from their choices and all kinds of health problems, they choose bad partners and end up with sorrowful lives, they don’t apply themselves and end up poor, they commit crimes and end up spending their life in prison. The ultimate choice is our own will.

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          • Nan says:

            Yada-yada-yada …

            Mak, I think you’re probably asleep by now, but hopefully you’ll start moderating this troll asap.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            How can she keep writing that nonsense?

            Like

          • Ron says:

            What choice do those born with disabilities and genetic disorders have?

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          • makagutu says:

            Except that one curse, eh? Or even that was we cursing ourselves? What about the fig tree?

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          • the fig is a metaphor for many things in scripture, it says god cursed the fig tree, representing the unfruitfulness , The fig leaves were used to cover adam and eve in their shame, etc/ Figs were a metaphor for Israel, and also prosperity, well being, security, to sit under the shade of your fig tree. Figs are a barometer of health of a nation……

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          • makagutu says:

            Is Jesus death and resurrection also metaphor?

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          • a fig as metaphor for Israel is like someone begging for money on a corner in nyc saying ” Hey, man, how about you give me some bread?” As far as jesus, there is hisoritcal reports of Jesus the human being.

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          • makagutu says:

            so Jesus is real but the fig tree he cursed is a metaphor? are you a contortionist?

            Liked by 1 person

          • figs require much physical attention and patience to be nurtured. so human participate with God to enjoy their ripe figs and to have lovely shade from blossoming fig trees to shelter them. Christ revealed the Mind of God to us in the way He lived and the way He perceived actions and the example of what celestial love is and being willing to give up His own life His love was so great. He showed us how to love one another. How to love God the Father and we are always surrounded by that love, surrounded but not forced to accept. That is up to our free will.

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          • Nan says:

            Gee, Mak. I hope you realize how fortunate you are to have someone like “dovie” explain all these deep things to you. You should be so full of it by now you probably need to use the bathroom.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            Oh dear, I have been so full of it, I think from day one.

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          • what does it say when the truth makes you ill?

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          • Nan says:

            “Truth” is relative.

            While it may be “truth” to you and others who have been hoodwinked by preachers, pastors, priests, bishops, etc., etc., etc. (and yes, even the “Holy” bible) … it is FAR from “truth” to those of us who prefer to see life as it really is … and live it accordingly.

            Liked by 1 person

          • truth is dictated by the creator of life, we are not the creator. Truth is the law, we either follow it or veer from it, and suffer the consequences. Truth is not relative. We can choose to experiment and separate from Truth, that is being honest to admit to oneself you are choosing to leave the path of Truth and do your own thing.

            Like

          • makagutu says:

            What is truth? How do you know

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          • Nan says:

            truth is dictated by the creator of life … Oh! You mean the male and female who copulated and created life through the joining of his sperm and her egg. Gosh yeah. That’s a truth alright … and you and I are here to prove it.

            Like

          • we use what we were given to participate in procreation but we didn’t make the parts ourselves.

            Like

          • Many christians become ill when they fail to follow the One, True God, Allah. There is but One Truth. From the Koran: 3:118: “O you who believe! Take not as your helpers or friends those outside your religion since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the verses if you understand.”

            Liked by 1 person

          • makagutu says:

            when were you last ill from truth

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          • when I realized I had fooled myself into thinking that a lie was truth.

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          • makagutu says:

            tell us one of this lies

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          • Lie #1: Donuts are born with a hole in the center. FALSE! Donuts are born solid, and then someone punches the hole into them with a special “donut hole makin'” machine.

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          • makagutu says:

            I didn’t know this. I have always believed a lie

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          • its not something to be joked about, theres a reason they say ” face the truth”. This is what confession is about and the Spiritual Exercises of ST. Ignatius that all the Jesuits practice. , daily. What a wonderful world it would be if everyone has the courage to face the Truth all of the time.

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          • makagutu says:

            you just refused to face the truth.

            Like

        • basenjibrian says:

          But how could they have had this “pride” when they were totally innocent. And, this is not really what the Bible even says (read Mystro above). You are just interpreting and explaining.

          Liked by 1 person

    • jim- says:

      The story should’ve been burned in the Alexandria fire and end thus nonsense 4th century.

      Liked by 2 people

  9. BTW, there was no tree in the Garden. There was a small fruit stand run by a dude named Hector. If we’re gonna blame anyone for the mess that happened there, we should blame him. He should NEVER have sold that apple to Eve. Idjit, that guy!

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Fairy tales don’t require fairness or logic.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Scottie says:

    Great post and I enjoyed the comments Mak. One thing though, shouldn’t it be god’s test instead of the devils? Afterall god set the stage, made the characters, gave the instructions and managed the whole affair. Hugs

    Liked by 1 person

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