Robert Nielsen has this very interesting review of a book about the strange death of Europe by Douglas Murray. You all should read it. In the past, Robert has written this, on the threat posed by Islam to Western values and there was a discussion here on what are these western values. Maybe it is time to resurrect the debate and hear what y’all think about this issue.
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Have been over to Robert Nielsen’s for a little rant. Western values indeed! We have so much to be proud of. This book appears to be about fear of Muslim immigrants. Now wouldn’t the West (US/UK/France) be the key instigator of this circumstance with their ongoing policy of Middle Eastern upheaval, regime change and resources grabbing. Oh dear, and now people’s own countries are no longer fit to live in, so they want to live in ours where the buses still run and there’s something to eat. And we in the west are upset about this?
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That’s how it sounds from reading Robert’s blog. It’s fear of the other, here defined loosely as Muslim, preferably Arab or as often said, brown.
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Christians have a filthy habit of stating something similar about their religion being responsible for ”Western values”.
Drinking tea and watching cricket, perhaps?
Fear mongering is probably the same all over. It eventually levels off.
I reckon the real problem is all those foreign footballers that move to England.
Also, Tish Farrell needs to be deported. She and her hubby are always plotting things in their garden shed while pretending to plant seedlings.
Very un-British, let me tell you!
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It’s amazing how happy it makes people to just hear Western Values and not even consider what that really means. I remember Jon Stewart in an interview after Trump was elected he said, “I wish somebody had asked Trump at some point what he meant by Make America Great Again.” What is that made America great? People are just happy to just make it mean what they want it to mean, and as a result it’s shields us from having a discussion about both the positive and negative acts we’ve committed as nation.
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You get to the heart of the matter. Even the erudite Nielsen does not define what western values are and or why they are western. I think it is taken for granted that the reader knows.
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Or it’s taken for granted that the reader will fill in what they want it to be so they can be self assured that the west can do no wrong and has nothing to learn from anybody else.
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To use a similar example, it is what believers do when they say things about god. You fill in the blanks as you go along
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Yep, I was thinking the same thing. You get enough iterations and enough people to follow you and bam you have yourself a new denomination. Congratulations! ๐
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You don’t have to think about coherent definitions. And I think this is the magic of religion, everything that is important is open ended
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Well, I am willing to host Tish. Hopefully she will teach me how to write as pay.
Fear mongering works for some bases
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Enlightenment values are concerned primarily with cultivating the conditions for human freedom. That freedom is demonstrated on the individual level. Governments that legitimize this individual authority in law are considered ‘Western’ no matter where on the globe they may be found. Respect for individual autonomy in law is the cornerstone value of all secular liberal democracies meaning that without this central legal position demonstrated in law, a country cannot be Western. Strictly speaking, culture has nothing to do with these values except in how they affect this cultivation for human freedom.
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In our disdain for the xenophobes and bigots, we cannot forget that there are very strong political currents in modern politicized Islam that ARE a threat, arguably. No, I am not a Trump supporter. But I am not going to lose too much sleep when Britain expels a fascist preacher calling for the kafirs to be brought to Allah by the sword. We don’t need him, especially when we have our own “Western” religious fascists exhibiting dangerous levels of power.
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Interesting you say this. Did these values apply to the first slave revolt of Haiti?
Did the Africans, Indians and others who suffered under colonialism have these rights- rights to self determination, to religious freedom and so on?
In the US at the time when Brown and Board of Education was finding its way to the supreme Court, the cities were actively following a renewal process whose aim was to increase segregation.
Maybe you can tell me which governments practice this what you talk about and also maybe tell me why they are western, not Eastern or southern? West of what?
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I see. Because you told a lie at some point in your life, you cannot say one of your values is honesty. According to the rule of Mak, you are now a liar and only a liar and always a liar. Because you broke a law at some point, you do not value the rule of law. You are a criminal and only a criminal and always a criminal. Because you can find examples of State sanctioned behaviour from Western countries contrary to Western values, therefore there are no such values.
Okay, Mak, follow your line of reasoning here and you will find there are no values held anywhere by anyone at any time because you can always find behaviour contrary to them. Apply this tactic you use to malign whatever you wish to malign in toto by selecting some singular breach to yourself and be consistent. Oh look, you can now ‘reason’ your way to be described as an execrable person in every way. You can use this tactic to prove to yourself you have no redeeming characteristics whatsoever. Well done.
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Why are you deflecting? Your rant here doesn’t answer my questions.
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Rant? Wow.
I’m pointing out a consistent tactic you use, delivered in the form of framed questions (I’m just asking…) that you will continue to use to dismiss any and all ‘answers’ that deviate from going along with your ideology that intentionally demonizes only the West for past digressions even though the most digressions are admitted and directed changes are made over time. Those changes matter not at all to you and mitigate your ideological position not one bit.
I see you, Mak, and I see what you’re doing. I don’t like that you’re becoming a mouthpiece for an ideology that only destroys. I think you’re better than that. What a terrible person I must be.
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Hahaha
Oh, Mr. Save the world from critique, you are ranting and I don’t know to what end? Is it not time to write one of those your long comments to save the world from lefties ๐
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Brand much?
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But every crime of the west has also been committed in the “Third World”. Is Britain ALONE responsible for the horrible politics of Kenya? Or, if we are accepting for the sake of argument that Western colonial history remains the defining force in Africa, what about the horrors in Ethiopia, which was never fully colonized? IS the west solely responsible for the horrors in Burma right now? Or the Sri Lanka civil war? Speaking of “Indians”, one reason the Spanish conquered the Aztecs so easily is that the latter were so brutal that the Spaniards found willing native allies.
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That claim is no where made on my blog and specifically this post. Britain alone isn’t responsible for our horrible politics but she is. Britain laid the foundations and has ensured that they stay that way, joined by the imperialist USA. This is not to say my countrymen are not culpable. Indeed we are. And the lasting effect of colonialism was to act as a stop to history, in a matter of speaking.
The case of Ethiopia is interesting. Following the defeat of the Italians, the country was not colonised but I think they have done their good share of mismanagement.
Speaking of Burma, the Buddhists and Muslims should get along. I think it is ethnic cleansing and the world has failed Rohyinga Muslims by not doing enough. Nobel laureates have not condemned Sung or spoken decisively about the genocide.
Was it not better weapons of the Spaniards, their diseases and a dying Aztec empire?
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To the isolationists and xenophobes, Western Values is synonymous with the bible. To others, it represents a compilation of conquest and subjugation. To me, I live in the western reaches of Arlington County, Virginia, USA. Western values mean the drudgery of Fairfax County. Naked hugs!
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I think you have solved our definition problem of what western values are.
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Now if my decision about what to have for lunch today could only be as easy as that! ๐
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That should not be hard. Left over food is where to begin, then any easy to prepare food and third option is take outs
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I’m stuck on campus today. I have to eat from the vending machines. Either chocolate candies or salty snacks.
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That’s not food. Forget about lunch my friend. Go eat an air bugger under some tree
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Western values come at about $65.34 in total, after taxes. Now, Southern values come in at about $76.87 after taxes. I’ll take a bag full of those, if you don’t mind. I ain’t no dummy!
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Do you know the going rate for eastern values? I want to buy shares in that market
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Crazy expensive! 123.67 per value! Nuts!
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I will go with those. Add freewill to it and a 5% discount
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