Christianity and Islam


I know full well I am not the first to point this out, but is it not curious that the Koran, which is the word of god, is not alluded to by Christian apologists as evidence for Jesus birth as given in Sura 19:22-34? Or could it be because it denies the resurrection?

And while we are here, what will happen to the Koran as the true word of god, when we come to the conclusion that the Jesus story was a tall tale? We already have scholarly work that points to this direction and I know several of us who think that the Christ-Myth hypothesis is the more reasonable conclusion? And by Mo declaring himself the final prophet, who will abrogate these sections when the time comes that an amendment is required? (For those who are unaware, the Koran has a fail safe valve, where some verses, the revealed word of god, is abrogated by a later verse)

I am hoping Muslims and Christians who stray on this site will enlighten us on this matter. IS it one of those buried under the carpet? Or could we say Christians have chosen to look the other side because if they were to get down to it, both their religions will crumble? One can only guess.

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

91 thoughts on “Christianity and Islam

  1. discussions between theist never get too far because they realize, even if only subconsciously, that the same arguments can apply to all of them. I keep waiting for Christians to explain how their arguments from popularity will work when Islam become a bigger religion.

    Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      this is one area where they could help us non believers. they settle this dispute and tell us their answer

      Liked by 2 people

    • alghouraba says:

      السلام على من اتبع الهدى
      I am a Muslim and i find it first strange that people mention the word ‘god’ and have no idea what it means to begin with.
      It is not a mockery, rather a thing that needs to be pointed out.
      I will try my best to shed light on few things in sha’a Allah ( if Allah wills) and then as Allah says in Qur’an whoever wants to believe let him believe and whoever does not want believe let him disbelieve, and as Allah says there is no compulsion in deen ( beliefs and living according to the rules)
      First of all, i understand that it is not easy to translate things from any language to an another, but let’s shed light on the word translated as ‘god’ in Arabic. And that is the word اله ilah.
      The word ilah means ‘that to which the hearts or the being inclines to’, that can be anyone or anything which or who is taken above everything. For some people it is miney and they would sell themselves for it, for others it is the sun or the moon, for others their own desires.
      In Islam Allah is the One superior, the One Who created everything hence the name Al Khaliq and the One Who originates ( Al Fatir).
      As for the one who wants to know Who the Creator is, they have to search themselves and be willing to search. You can not even find a book unless you search for it or you tell to the librarian to show you where it is.
      We believe that ‘Isa peace be upon him or as in the English language the name is used, Jesus, is born and that Allah created him just like He created Adam peace be upon him. Both are without father, one ( Adam) being the first creation and Jesus being a sign to the people and a miracle.
      We believe that he was a Messenger of Allah and that Allah raised him to Himself but Allah, the Creator Himself , does not have children. And here it is not about the can or can not have, here it is about whether it is befitting. There is nothing like Allah as He is the Perfect One having no partners.
      Someone taken as ilah who has partners has trouble as many partners fight over power and we can see it on an everyday basis.
      As for the proof that exists and will exist, it is the Qur’an, preserved over 1400 years without even a dot being changed.
      Whether one will accept the authority of Allah, Who wants the best for us and that we save ourselves from the fire, that’s up to them.
      As for the comment on how people are devided, Sufi, Shia, Sunni etc, well that’s nothing new as over 1400 years ago the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم told us that this nation will divide just like the Jews and Christians did, hence you have all kind of beliefs amingst the Jews, Christians or those who associate themselves to Islam. And the reason I say ‘those who associate themselves to Islam’ is that one must know what a Muslim is and one could see that from what attributes one must have to be a Muslim, the compulsory ones.
      The other things one must know related to Islam , apart from what Ilah means or Muslim or Islam, is what is the meaning of shirk or what is translated as association with Allah.
      Shirk comes from the word sharaka which means to share, and that means that if you attribute to yourself or to someone else something that belongs exclusively to Allah, you do shirk with Allah.
      Everyone can search for themselves and it’s up to them whether they accept or not.
      Hope this sheds light on some things.

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      • alghouraba says:

        And one more thing, his name is not Mo, it is Muhammad.

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      • It seems that your word for god is the same as the Christian or Jewish word for god. Each religion makes a claim that they have the “truth” about this god, and none of you can show this any more than the next theist.

        YOu also use the same arguments as any Christian or Jew or any other theist. You claim that it must be searched for. I have and found nothing. I’ve prayed as a believer for help to retain my faith, and there was no response. Why did your god fail me? you also make the same claim about the qu’ran as Christians make about the bible. You do not believe them and they do not believe you, and I don’t believe either of you for the same reasons you disbelieve each other.

        Your god is claimed to have have made the same claim about the splintering of your faith just like the Christian is claimed to have. Or both of you have authors who knew how humans work, there is no prophecy here, only human nature. It’s very funny since I know a Christian who makes the exact same claims as you that you and only you have the “right” version of Islam, as he claims he has the one and only right version of Christianity.

        It does shed some light, in that you do use the same arguments. Thank you for responding.

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        • alghouraba says:

          The question should be when you alreadyconsider that god failed to answer you, how can you find what is the truth when your first assumption is that god fails you?
          Search in sha’a Allah and you will find the truth. Best way to start is to learn who Allah is( if you want to know whether Islam is the truth). Proper education is important. Besides you hearing about Islam is already a response to your prayer of what the truth is. Now it’s up to you to educate yourself about it 🙂

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          • And you give the same excuse as every other theist when their god fails. These gods make promises and then they fail. Then the believer has to blame me when their god fails to do what it promised. Any of your claims could be said by a Christian, a Jew, a Ba’hai, a Zoroasterian, etc. All claim that “proper education” is important. And when that proper education doesn’t work, then another excuse is offered.

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          • alghouraba says:

            when you already consider that god failed instead of you admitting that you don’t want to believe because you don’t get something you want when you want (and you did but you turned away) then what to expect. That means only you are not sincere about it. And yes education is important because if you don’t know what you believe in how can you believe in it?

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          • unfortunately for you, alghourba, you assume, falsely that I don’t want to believe. Why do you choose to lie? So, since you are not educated in Christianity “properly”, that’s why you don’t believe in it. That’s your only excuse per your own argument.

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          • alghouraba says:

            I do know properly about Christianity and Judaism too also about Budhism and atheism but you do choose not to believe because you can’t accept the fact that something is already in front of your eyes

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          • so, if you have been educated “properly” in theh other religions, why don’t you believe in them?

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          • alghouraba says:

            Because there are contradictions in them and changes and that’s not me whi says it it’s their university teachers

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          • makagutu says:

            Islam must be the only truth. I mean with Mo as the final prophet, what other truth would anyone be looking for?

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          • makagutu says:

            The Force stands on its own

            Liked by 1 person

        • alghouraba says:

          Besides it is nit my version of Islam, simply read the Quran and see for yourself. It’s open for everyone to see if someone says the truth or not, Islam doesn’t belong to me so that i can make any versions of it, it’s from Allah and i wasn’t a Muslim before just like you aren’t. So see for yourself in sha’a Allah

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          • I have read the qu’ran, and I know that every sect makes different claims about their holy books. Just like Christians and Jews and every other bunch of theists. You all have invented a god that agrees with you, all of your very human hatreds and desires.

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          • alghouraba says:

            If you truly read Quran then you will see that the Quran does nit agres to human desire but that there are commands which a human will not want to implement, most of humans, but only those who believe will. And the preservation of the origanal revelation is enough proof for you as you can see that those other who claim the truth have even disagreements of what is in their book but of course you will know it if you go for higher level of education and not by leading discussions with people on the internet including myself. So if sou want to educate yourself do it and if not then not it’s up to you. But please don’t make claims where i can discover that you are not saying the truth, i.e. That you have read the Quran, since i know portion of it by heart in Arabic and that shows me clearly you have not read it since Quran clearly does not agree with human lowly desires. One proof for that is that it is not allowed that a woman or man shakes even the hand of someone who is not allowed to them and nit even to talk about more than that. Ajd i am sure that it is not the desire of human to learn portions by heart and it being obligatory to pray 5 times a day. And all that contradicts what you said.
            But anyways up to you. Take care

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          • alghouraba says:

            Does not agree*

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          • Each Muslim has their own interpretation of what the qu’ran “really” says. Just like every other theist. and just like them, you claim that those who don’t agree with you aren’t “really” Muslim. Your god is the same jealous ignorant and selfish god as the god of the Christians and Jews.

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          • alghouraba says:

            If you want to know what the Quran says then simply read the Quran and don’t listen to me. I am not calling you to my ‘version’ of Islam, i am telling you about that you should educate yourself what the truth is and that if you want to know about something then simply go to the source and don’t believe me or anyone simple

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          • alghouraba says:

            No one is forcing you, if you want do and if not then don’t

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          • I have gone to the source. You seem to forget that, and I found it to be nonsense.

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  2. john zande says:

    It’s buggered already because it claims Moses and Abraham were real historical characters.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. basenjibrian says:

    Oh ye of little faithS. The “answers” are outlined quite clearly over the months and years here: http://www.jesusandmo.net/

    Liked by 1 person

  4. jim- says:

    I’m sure they are confident that eventually the archeology will pan out. If not, the less information the better. Faith thrives without fact…the less fact the better when it comes to that little foible of human psychology. How else can you explain it since every single point of doctrine or story or scripture is an improbable walking contradiction?

    Liked by 2 people

  5. renudepride says:

    I’m uncertain that either of the two systems can truly withstand close rational scrutiny. After all, we ALL know for a fact that all the universe was skillfully crafted by Winnie-the-Pooh! Naked hugs!

    Liked by 1 person

  6. shelldigger says:

    I actually had the pleasure of witnessing two righteous women having a very interesting cat fight once. They were quite deflty throwing bible quotes at each other in an effort to one up the other with the implied insults. it was a thing to behold.

    I suspect something similar would happen pitting x-iantiy and Islam against each other. Right up until the war started.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Hello guys, I’m a Muslim.
    As Muslims we believe the Quran to be the word of God.
    Let say something regarding your statement of replacement of verses by later verses.
    Take not of this points:
    1)The Qur’an was not sent at once but for a period of 23years
    2) None of the verses was sent without a cause. The cause might be due to what is happening or happened or even due to sth that will happen in the future.
    3) Faith also has level in such a way that there is one can understand or even accept at a low level .
    Therefore when you look at the message of Islam, it met non believers. And it was among them that some turn to believers. There are things that will be hard on them at the beginning. But will not be as they get to understand the faith. This is why some rulings are being changed along time .
    Best example is on ‘Alcohol’.
    I hope you benefit from this writing. Mark you I’m not a scholar.
    But if you will like to have more detailed discussion. You can decide for us how to meet

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Sorry for my english errors

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  9. I’m not an English man so, you don’t blame me

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  10. Tarig Anter says:

    The Proper Meaning of Islamic terminology and Islamic characteristics
    We find general and common terms such as Islamic history, Islamic culture, Muslim scholars, Islamic sciences, Islamic law, Islamic countries, Muslim peoples, Muslim rulers and many others. So what is meant by an Islamic term? What is the specific definition of Islam so as not to be confused and misunderstood?
    Is the meaning of Islam is related to the Muhammadian Sharia/Law/code and the Koran and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh? But the Muhammadian Sharia/Law/code, the Koran and the Prophet Muhammad all affirm that Islam is much, much older than them. So it is clear and strange that the common understanding and common sources attribute Islam to a body while the same body denies this relationship or descent. Where did this relationship or descent come from? And what is the validity of those Islamic terms?
    The answer is clear and logical, but it is abandoned and even rejected. The true laws/codes are all ways leading to a single Religion, but not any law is a Religion by itself, as well as Muhammadian Sharia/Law/code and is only one of the laws lead to Religion. For example, if a house is located on the road leading to Beirut, it cannot be said that this house is located in Beirut.
    The Creator sent to every, and each, nation in the universe and in our little earth a messenger and a law in their language to guide them to Religion. And each nation has a name for the Religion and for the Creator according to their language, but the Creator is one and the Religion is one. If there are multiple Religions, it means that there are multiple creators, and this is impossible. The Religion called by the Bharat (who are referred to by a term derived from the Persian language as the Indians) call this Religion “Dharma” meaning the natural law. While the Arabs call this Religion “Islam”; and the Mazdayasna (later became Zoroastrianism) call the same Religion “Asha”, meaning truth and order
    But the confusion and error in naming the Muhammadian Sharia as Islam or Religion is the result of the kidnapping and falsification of Muhammadian law by the Turkic-Mongolians since the Umayyad era and the following eras and even today; and their use of that Sharia after falsification as means of claiming Religion and giving them justification for invasion and expansion and occupation. Therefore, these false Islamic terms refer to false Muhammadian Law only; because the right meaning of Islamic is Religious, without any definition, and should include all true laws without discrimination in the globe and in the whole universe.
    The Muhammadian Sharia turned into what is now known as Islam, which deserves to be called the Turkic Islam, to distinction it from true Islam or the Religion. Turkic Islam began to form immediately after the Prophet’s migration to Yathrib (now called Medina) after the threat of Arabs, especially Quraysh. Immediately after the emigration to Yathrib, the Muhammadian Law was held hostage by the Bedouins (who are not Arabs and were called Ansar) and Jews, and both were partners of Persians and the Romans, and all of them are Turkic-Mongolians.
    Then immediately after the death of the Prophet and throughout the period of the Caliphate, they stepped up their campaign against the Muhammadian Law and kidnapped it, and their believers and caliphs were assassinated and poisoned and persecuted. And they ignited the great Fitnas and civil wars; and bought the Umayyad and put them for a short-term in sham power to deceive and appease Quraysh and the Arabs.
    Then Turkic-Mongolians killed their Umayyad allies and obliterated them and established the Abbasid state which carried out the complete forgery which continues to this day. So it is clear that the Muhammadian Sharia was killed in the cradle and its dress was stole and now pagan idolatry Turkic-Mongolians is wearing it and called itself a religion; but it is in fact an organization that should be called Turkic Islam.
    The real problem with both Muhammadians and non-Muhammadians is that they cannot part from the old common misconception promoted by corrupt institutions such as Al-Azhar, churches and others since the Umayyad era that Turkic Islam is the Islam and that Islam came only with the Koran and that the Religion has only one name which is Islam.
    Faith in every Sharia is to follow its messenger and to abide by the specific duties prescribed in its law. And faith in the Muhammadian Sharia is defined by the testimony that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah and to perform prayers and the provision of Zakat and pilgrimage of the Sacred House. And similarly, the belief in the Sharia of Yeshua (Jesus) is to testimony that there is no god except Elohim and Jesus is a messenger of Elohim and the performance of their worship. The same applies with other uncountable messengers.
    Original Mazdayasna, not the present form, for example, is one of the oldest codes and faith in it takes to the Religion, but in that nation and other nations the names of Religion are different. Even Kemet (the ancient Egyptians), Kerma (the ancient Nubians), the Assyrians, the Bharat (the ancient Indians), and all European and African nations had their own codes that qualified them to describe as Religious or monotheists, but in each nation the name of Religion was different but its content was the same. No any individual code could not be described rightfully as the Religion or even a religion. https://wp.me/p1OEJz-1wQ

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