I know full well I am not the first to point this out, but is it not curious that the Koran, which is the word of god, is not alluded to by Christian apologists as evidence for Jesus birth as given in Sura 19:22-34? Or could it be because it denies the resurrection?
And while we are here, what will happen to the Koran as the true word of god, when we come to the conclusion that the Jesus story was a tall tale? We already have scholarly work that points to this direction and I know several of us who think that the Christ-Myth hypothesis is the more reasonable conclusion? And by Mo declaring himself the final prophet, who will abrogate these sections when the time comes that an amendment is required? (For those who are unaware, the Koran has a fail safe valve, where some verses, the revealed word of god, is abrogated by a later verse)
I am hoping Muslims and Christians who stray on this site will enlighten us on this matter. IS it one of those buried under the carpet? Or could we say Christians have chosen to look the other side because if they were to get down to it, both their religions will crumble? One can only guess.
Random thoughts 
discussions between theist never get too far because they realize, even if only subconsciously, that the same arguments can apply to all of them. I keep waiting for Christians to explain how their arguments from popularity will work when Islam become a bigger religion.
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this is one area where they could help us non believers. they settle this dispute and tell us their answer
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I agree. We can not have a discussion on religion and/or “God” until we first determine which “god” and/or religion is the correct one. So, I say, toss all the religious nutters into a big fuckin’ ring ‘n let ’em fight it out. Bring me the popcorn!
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I agree, though they may accuse us of arguing that might makes right
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George Carlin, a particularly obnoxious comedian (RIP) has an idea related to noxious criminals. Maybe we could do this for the religious?
Warning: NSFW!
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Carlin was the best!
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They cannot even settle the disputes WITHIN their own faiths (see Sunni bombing campaigns against Shia and Sufi sects), let alone reconciling among the big three (or big 2, I don’t think Judaism is very interested in reconciling).
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Maybe they are not interested in reconciliation. Each group has the true god
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I very much want to lock them in a room and require that for them to get out.
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let’s have popcorn in the ready
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السلام على من اتبع الهدى
I am a Muslim and i find it first strange that people mention the word ‘god’ and have no idea what it means to begin with.
It is not a mockery, rather a thing that needs to be pointed out.
I will try my best to shed light on few things in sha’a Allah ( if Allah wills) and then as Allah says in Qur’an whoever wants to believe let him believe and whoever does not want believe let him disbelieve, and as Allah says there is no compulsion in deen ( beliefs and living according to the rules)
First of all, i understand that it is not easy to translate things from any language to an another, but let’s shed light on the word translated as ‘god’ in Arabic. And that is the word اله ilah.
The word ilah means ‘that to which the hearts or the being inclines to’, that can be anyone or anything which or who is taken above everything. For some people it is miney and they would sell themselves for it, for others it is the sun or the moon, for others their own desires.
In Islam Allah is the One superior, the One Who created everything hence the name Al Khaliq and the One Who originates ( Al Fatir).
As for the one who wants to know Who the Creator is, they have to search themselves and be willing to search. You can not even find a book unless you search for it or you tell to the librarian to show you where it is.
We believe that ‘Isa peace be upon him or as in the English language the name is used, Jesus, is born and that Allah created him just like He created Adam peace be upon him. Both are without father, one ( Adam) being the first creation and Jesus being a sign to the people and a miracle.
We believe that he was a Messenger of Allah and that Allah raised him to Himself but Allah, the Creator Himself , does not have children. And here it is not about the can or can not have, here it is about whether it is befitting. There is nothing like Allah as He is the Perfect One having no partners.
Someone taken as ilah who has partners has trouble as many partners fight over power and we can see it on an everyday basis.
As for the proof that exists and will exist, it is the Qur’an, preserved over 1400 years without even a dot being changed.
Whether one will accept the authority of Allah, Who wants the best for us and that we save ourselves from the fire, that’s up to them.
As for the comment on how people are devided, Sufi, Shia, Sunni etc, well that’s nothing new as over 1400 years ago the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم told us that this nation will divide just like the Jews and Christians did, hence you have all kind of beliefs amingst the Jews, Christians or those who associate themselves to Islam. And the reason I say ‘those who associate themselves to Islam’ is that one must know what a Muslim is and one could see that from what attributes one must have to be a Muslim, the compulsory ones.
The other things one must know related to Islam , apart from what Ilah means or Muslim or Islam, is what is the meaning of shirk or what is translated as association with Allah.
Shirk comes from the word sharaka which means to share, and that means that if you attribute to yourself or to someone else something that belongs exclusively to Allah, you do shirk with Allah.
Everyone can search for themselves and it’s up to them whether they accept or not.
Hope this sheds light on some things.
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And one more thing, his name is not Mo, it is Muhammad.
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I said Mo. What will you do?
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That only talks about you and how much respect you have
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Well Mo( pbuh) is that better where P can be piss
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The proper word is “Mu”, not “Mo”. OK. 🙂
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Ok. Ooh, I see. My bad
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Really shame on you people
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Is this where we say sorry? Haha
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I farted, too, just now, but I’m not sorry. What I’m I supposed to do, let the methane build up til my gut explodes?! Geez! Some folks are SO unfair!
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Hahahaha, Jeff. Some folks are so uptight
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It seems that your word for god is the same as the Christian or Jewish word for god. Each religion makes a claim that they have the “truth” about this god, and none of you can show this any more than the next theist.
YOu also use the same arguments as any Christian or Jew or any other theist. You claim that it must be searched for. I have and found nothing. I’ve prayed as a believer for help to retain my faith, and there was no response. Why did your god fail me? you also make the same claim about the qu’ran as Christians make about the bible. You do not believe them and they do not believe you, and I don’t believe either of you for the same reasons you disbelieve each other.
Your god is claimed to have have made the same claim about the splintering of your faith just like the Christian is claimed to have. Or both of you have authors who knew how humans work, there is no prophecy here, only human nature. It’s very funny since I know a Christian who makes the exact same claims as you that you and only you have the “right” version of Islam, as he claims he has the one and only right version of Christianity.
It does shed some light, in that you do use the same arguments. Thank you for responding.
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The question should be when you alreadyconsider that god failed to answer you, how can you find what is the truth when your first assumption is that god fails you?
Search in sha’a Allah and you will find the truth. Best way to start is to learn who Allah is( if you want to know whether Islam is the truth). Proper education is important. Besides you hearing about Islam is already a response to your prayer of what the truth is. Now it’s up to you to educate yourself about it 🙂
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And you give the same excuse as every other theist when their god fails. These gods make promises and then they fail. Then the believer has to blame me when their god fails to do what it promised. Any of your claims could be said by a Christian, a Jew, a Ba’hai, a Zoroasterian, etc. All claim that “proper education” is important. And when that proper education doesn’t work, then another excuse is offered.
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when you already consider that god failed instead of you admitting that you don’t want to believe because you don’t get something you want when you want (and you did but you turned away) then what to expect. That means only you are not sincere about it. And yes education is important because if you don’t know what you believe in how can you believe in it?
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unfortunately for you, alghourba, you assume, falsely that I don’t want to believe. Why do you choose to lie? So, since you are not educated in Christianity “properly”, that’s why you don’t believe in it. That’s your only excuse per your own argument.
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I do know properly about Christianity and Judaism too also about Budhism and atheism but you do choose not to believe because you can’t accept the fact that something is already in front of your eyes
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so, if you have been educated “properly” in theh other religions, why don’t you believe in them?
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Because there are contradictions in them and changes and that’s not me whi says it it’s their university teachers
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more excuses, Al.
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If i ask you why do you go to this doctor and not to that you will tell me a reason a not that that’s an excuse so saying that what i say is an excuse is not valid
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It’s a reason and not an excuse, just like people have reasons why they like vanilla more than chocolate and vice versa, everyone is free to choose what they want and not what we want them to choose
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When a theist tries to compare their belief in a certain god to me having an actual reason between real doctors, that always fails. I can point to actual facts that define differences in doctors. Believers in gods have nothing other than their opinion about their god and others. In that none of you have any evidence for a god at all, there is no reason to believe your claims that your particular god is the best, the only one that exists, etc.
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That is your opinion, as for me, my belief is not based on opinions of people or anything, search yourself in sha’a Allah, besides as foe the Christian belief, first of all i don’t believe God is 3 because if there were many partners they would have a problem in rulership as to who is more powerful, secondly i don’t believe Jesus peace be upon him is a god since he himself asked from God to be saved according to their Bible, so what shall i do with someone who cannot evwn save himself? As foe jewish beliefs i don’t believe i am a daughter of god nor do i believe that only Children of Israel go to paradise, wouldn’t it be unfair from such a god to only put the children of Israel there? That would be racism and the One I worship sent the Qur’an for everyone not depending on race or whatsoever. And as i said it’s up to you what you want to believe, i found proofs for myself, i accept them, but sometimes also a certain people have the attitude that even if God would show them million signs they don’t want to believe as it’s always easier listening to ones own self than to an authority.
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Only that your god is a monoglot. Sent the Koran in arabic spoken by what % of the human race? I think gods should improve on the messaging department. maybe a new publisher or distributor should help
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So, Al, you don’t like Christianity since it offends your believe that magical beings would have a problem in working together 🙂 And as for JC asking for help, we again have the silly gospels disagreeing. In the gospel of John, JC has no problem at all being cruxified.
It would certainly be unfair for a god to only have people of a certain belief go to paradise, so Allah is a failure in that too.
And finally, we have the same excuse that Christians and other theists use, that you lie when you claim that people who don’t agree with your beliefs would not believe anything that your god showed them. It’s a shame you have to lie, alghouraba when your claims fail.
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First of all educate yourself inatead of throwing claims,
As for number 1, i mentioned judgment of a god based on race/nationality, not consequences of being a disbeliever
And secondly i said SOME PEOPLE have that attitude. So try to read properly what i wrote,
And finally and thirdly as i mentioned before, you want to believe then do so and if not then your issue. In the end for every not doing one bares ones own consequences
So much from me regarding this matter
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I have educated myself quite well, thanks. You ignore that the bible makes different claims about the same moment in time, and you cherry pick the one you want. YOU want to pretend that your god is only unfair if it is picking and choosing depending on culture, when each culture has a different version of your god, and you all insist that those other sects don’t have the truth. Islam is just as sadly fractionated as Christianity, with each sect sure that its version is the only right one, and happily harming other sects because they are sure that they have the only right interpretation.
Such childish people, all whining that their imaginary friend is the best.
You are a rather hilarious failure when you try to claim that I can believe if I want, but then claim I won’t believe in anything your god does. Threats about what your imaginary friend will do scares no one if they don’t believe in it. You just get upset that no one needs you either, or your made up version of Allah.
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We were already told that the ummah will split of you had educated yourself you would know that, and no i don’t cherry pick i know very well what is said. I believe in what i believe and I know it’s the only truth. You for yourself will know it one day don’t worry. I know people like you it’s nothing new to me what you say. Do whatever you like, believe in whatever you want in the end i will be asked about myself and not about you
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every theist claims that their version is the “only truth”. I’m not impressed. Your god does nothing and is impotent and imaginary and any other god. it’s always pathetic when theists only have toothless threats about how their god is going to get me. Your religion depends on ignorance and fear, al, not something to be proud of.
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If God is imaginary why do you even mention him?
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This is a bad argument
Goblins are imaginary and people mention them besides every believer talks about god like they know what it is, that it is and where it is
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Yoda is real. No other reason to mention him if you ask me.
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and that’s one more bit of nonsense so many theists try, the attempt to claim that I shouldn’t concern myself with your nonsense since I don’t believe in it. I mention this god because belief in it causes people to do very stupid things, to lie, to threaten people, and to directly harm them.
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Ans the atheists who don’t believe in a god who did worst things are not a threat? Don’t lie to yourself and find yourself a better job because you will NEVER succeed in what you are trying. You know the worst part about people like you? You will wish one day if you don’t become a believer that you were but that is in your grave
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Al, you again repeate a false statement that many theists try to spread as the truth. You want to claim that atheism caused horrors. It did not. Megalomania did, because every single person you will try to cite was a megalomaniac. Since I am an atheist and have no desire to harm people if they don’t obey me, it’s no the atheism that made Stalin, Pol Pot, etc be murderous idiots.
And no, Al, I’ll never want to become a believer in such nonsense as you believe. I’m not going to believe just because it might save me from a murderous god. But again, that’s not a problem since you and no other theist can show that gods exist at all.
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I don’t care if you see me as failure, in the end you are not my judge but one who will be judged just like i will be
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No, I won’t be judged. Your threats are as imaginary as those of a Christian. I keep hearing threats for decades and that this god will be back real soon now. What happens is that these gods do nothing, not helping people at all, and believers have to make up reasons why their god is so impotent. It makes for a very silly threat.
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You have hands and eyes, if God is impotent then make a human yourself since you are so potent, or cut your hand off and make it regrow, or even better, make an another planet, or the sun comw from the west.. Since you are so big mouth against god, or you are maybe of those people who believe they descend from monkeys
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As soon as you can show me your god did anything, we can talk, Al. Humans can reattach hands, no god needed. And if you, like so many theists, try to claim that your god allowed us to known how to reattached limbs, etc, then you have to explain why your god was such an ass for millenia when it didn’t “allow” us to know how to help people.
You also are terribly ignorant about evolutionary theory. No, we didn’t descend from monkeys. To attack something you have no knowledge about makes lazy and ignorant.
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First of all i will not put myself in your level, as my God tells me when you guys insult to leave you. So from now on talk to yourself just like thw other guy shameless person
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Your god does nothing. *you* want to leave, so at least be man enough to admit it.
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What did we do that he says we are shameless?
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ah, you know, not need him and his “truth”. 🙂
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ah, then that’s ok. he should feel very welcome here. he is allowed to pontificate all day
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You talk to god? That’s worse than delusional
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I never claimed anyone needs me, i myself am i need of the help of Allah, and if i had waited for people like you to help me i would have starved to death by now. And no am not upset because you chose your own way, it is your own choice. I made mine and that
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You need others to confirm that you are right. That’s why you try to spread your version of your religion. And you have fed yourself since your parents ceased, no god needed.
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You’re really a funny guy i don’t need to spread my religion, even people like you even if they apeak against islam are enough for someone to ask themselves what islam is, they read the Quran and become Muslims, and secondly i myself am a revert and for that i am thankful that i am a Muslim. Besides whoever wants to know what is true can always go to the source to see what one needs to do to be a Muslim, because Allah did not command us anything else than to be Muslims ( those who submit themselves to Him)
I know people like you clubschadenfreude, you are like those people who when Noah came they rejected him, and when Abraham came they rejected him, when Moses came they rejected him, when Jesus came rejected him and when the last Messenger of God Muhammad came you reject him. People like you existed and will exist. And last thing before i leave from commenting on your posts, you should not lie about me, i have no versions of Islam, i follow Islam. And since you read the Quran then you will know what i follow. I never called anyone here to follow what i say in case you didn’t notice, i always repeated ‘educate yourself’. In the end, whatever i say can be easily found out in case i am a liar or version maker ☺️
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oh no, Al, but I’m a gal, not a guy. Most theists need to spread their religion. Mohammed spread Islam on the point of a sword, so did Christianity, and so did Judaism.
No people don’t automatically become muslims after they read the qu’ran. I read it and it’s as silly as any other religion. It has the same claims of magical nonsense that the bible, the book of Mormon, the Indian holy books, etc, have.
In that the flood never happened and Noah was a rather silly drunkard, your comparison fails. Abraham was nasty enough to murder his son for this murderous god. Moses never existed since the exodus never happened; not even a latrine has been found in the supposed area 600,000 plus people wandered around in for 4 decades. Muhammad was one more human who invented a god.
I know you follow a version of Islam since all Muslims do. Sunni, Shia, ahmadiyaa, Wahabism, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches, etc: Each theist makes up their god and their religion in their personal image, based on their “interpretation”.
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If wiki is your source then you are stupid
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And the only reason you are saying that is that the well researched article with all of its references shows that you are wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches
Unfortunately, it does not surpise me that you would make false claims, Al. Many Christians also lie, despite what their holy book says
“”And, do not cloak (and confuse) the truth with falsehood. Do not suppress the truth knowingly. (The Noble Quran, 2:42)””
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And the word guy is gender neutral go and educate yourself
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It can be gender neutral. I have no reason to believe you meant it in that fashion.
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There is no harm in accepting you thought club is a dude. Nothing really.
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And that is it*
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I’m sure it is 🙂
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So if you say it’s an excuse, then i ask you why are you finding excuses not to be muslim? You see we can go on like that continuously, but it won’t lead anywhere. If you want to believe then believe and if not then don’t simple
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Why I’m not Muslim? Because you have no more evidence than the Christians or the Jews or Hindus, that your god exists. I suspect that is the same reason you have for not being a Christian, there is no reason to believer their claims.
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His best line is how can he believe in a dude who couldn’t save himself? That is a class act!
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isn’t it, though? 🙂
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It is. I agree with him
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Islam must be the only truth. I mean with Mo as the final prophet, what other truth would anyone be looking for?
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The Force?
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The Force stands on its own
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Besides it is nit my version of Islam, simply read the Quran and see for yourself. It’s open for everyone to see if someone says the truth or not, Islam doesn’t belong to me so that i can make any versions of it, it’s from Allah and i wasn’t a Muslim before just like you aren’t. So see for yourself in sha’a Allah
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I have read the qu’ran, and I know that every sect makes different claims about their holy books. Just like Christians and Jews and every other bunch of theists. You all have invented a god that agrees with you, all of your very human hatreds and desires.
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If you truly read Quran then you will see that the Quran does nit agres to human desire but that there are commands which a human will not want to implement, most of humans, but only those who believe will. And the preservation of the origanal revelation is enough proof for you as you can see that those other who claim the truth have even disagreements of what is in their book but of course you will know it if you go for higher level of education and not by leading discussions with people on the internet including myself. So if sou want to educate yourself do it and if not then not it’s up to you. But please don’t make claims where i can discover that you are not saying the truth, i.e. That you have read the Quran, since i know portion of it by heart in Arabic and that shows me clearly you have not read it since Quran clearly does not agree with human lowly desires. One proof for that is that it is not allowed that a woman or man shakes even the hand of someone who is not allowed to them and nit even to talk about more than that. Ajd i am sure that it is not the desire of human to learn portions by heart and it being obligatory to pray 5 times a day. And all that contradicts what you said.
But anyways up to you. Take care
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Does not agree*
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Each Muslim has their own interpretation of what the qu’ran “really” says. Just like every other theist. and just like them, you claim that those who don’t agree with you aren’t “really” Muslim. Your god is the same jealous ignorant and selfish god as the god of the Christians and Jews.
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If you want to know what the Quran says then simply read the Quran and don’t listen to me. I am not calling you to my ‘version’ of Islam, i am telling you about that you should educate yourself what the truth is and that if you want to know about something then simply go to the source and don’t believe me or anyone simple
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No one is forcing you, if you want do and if not then don’t
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I have gone to the source. You seem to forget that, and I found it to be nonsense.
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It’s buggered already because it claims Moses and Abraham were real historical characters.
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I forgot about that particular detail.
Well, it confuses Mary the supposed mother of Jesus and Miriam of the OT
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Oh ye of little faithS. The “answers” are outlined quite clearly over the months and years here: http://www.jesusandmo.net/
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Hahaha
Where do I get more faith?
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Just wander outside your door, Maka. The first church or mosque you encounter on your next bicycle ride is fated by Gawd to be the one true faith for you.
Off Topic: I should send you the photographs I took of what happens when a carbon bicycle frame meets an unyielding surface. UGLY to say the least. I impacted on my lower front side…bruised rib(s) probably. Nothing to be done for this kind of injury, of course, but I ache!
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Pls send the photos.
There is a church less than 200m from where I live, I will just pop in
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I’m sure they are confident that eventually the archeology will pan out. If not, the less information the better. Faith thrives without fact…the less fact the better when it comes to that little foible of human psychology. How else can you explain it since every single point of doctrine or story or scripture is an improbable walking contradiction?
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Sadly for them, of course, archaeology seems to be going the other way.
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It does…it has. Especially the pay dirt that was expected for a hundred years at Kadesh Barnea. A settlement the size of Houston Texas, and not even a pottery shard or a bone after 100 years of digging. No exodus, no Moses, nothing. Doesn’t work well when you use actual place names in a fable. Oops!
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I’ve read that except for the MOST ORTHODOX, must rabbis acknowledge the mythology in the Torah. That does not change the usefulness of the mythology to justify the State of Israel, but…
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you faithless people are the ones who see contradictions. Don’t you know contradictions are only apparent? It is a different way of reading.
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I’m uncertain that either of the two systems can truly withstand close rational scrutiny. After all, we ALL know for a fact that all the universe was skillfully crafted by Winnie-the-Pooh! Naked hugs!
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Ah, the Great Mystery revealed.
Good one 🙂
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Haahaha Roger. This is a win.
Anyone with proof that it ain’t Winnie the Pooh should show us.
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I agree with you, O Exalted Holiness and accept your pronouncement! 🙂
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I actually had the pleasure of witnessing two righteous women having a very interesting cat fight once. They were quite deflty throwing bible quotes at each other in an effort to one up the other with the implied insults. it was a thing to behold.
I suspect something similar would happen pitting x-iantiy and Islam against each other. Right up until the war started.
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Having them in a room with no weapons will be a great thing. They will resolve all doctrinal issues before they can be allowed outside
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Hello guys, I’m a Muslim.
As Muslims we believe the Quran to be the word of God.
Let say something regarding your statement of replacement of verses by later verses.
Take not of this points:
1)The Qur’an was not sent at once but for a period of 23years
2) None of the verses was sent without a cause. The cause might be due to what is happening or happened or even due to sth that will happen in the future.
3) Faith also has level in such a way that there is one can understand or even accept at a low level .
Therefore when you look at the message of Islam, it met non believers. And it was among them that some turn to believers. There are things that will be hard on them at the beginning. But will not be as they get to understand the faith. This is why some rulings are being changed along time .
Best example is on ‘Alcohol’.
I hope you benefit from this writing. Mark you I’m not a scholar.
But if you will like to have more detailed discussion. You can decide for us how to meet
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There is nothing you have said that I don’t already know
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And you see it(replacement) as wrong?
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As funny.
That an all knowing deity had occasion to change her mind
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Before I talk further may I ask you of your religion?
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Irrelevant question.
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Do you believe in God?
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At least I should know the kind of person I’m dealing with
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Not important as long as we can communicate
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How is this pertinent to the discussion we are having?
Which god do you mean?
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The God that created the world
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You have made two assumptions in this one statement; that there is a god and this particular god created the world. How do you arrive at these two conclusions?
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Hhhhhh.
You are an atheist right?
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Not relevant
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OK.
Back to our former talk.
It is that Almighty God knows that if a particular ruling is given to the people at a particular time, it will make them disbelieve. Therefore he give the gradually.
It is not that God is trying a rule to see if it works or not.
Hope I’m clear.
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Hahahahaha.
Someone should pick me off the floor.
You are very clear
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If you look at the illegalizing of alcohol.
It was very gradual
What happened at the end? The Muslim at that time completely stop taking. They were even pouring it away to the point that it filled the street.
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Why was alcohol prohibited?
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It causes gas.
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Quits alcohol
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Its harmful to the body
Science confirmed that.
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Quran 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends, they are but friends to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as friends, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allâh guides not those people who are the wrongdoers.”
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I am convinced we should all be Muslims
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You should be. It’s the only true faith out there. 🙂
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I will later, there is still bbq to eat.
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Because alkohol us not good for health.
Everything that is not good for our health is prohibited.
As we know before there was no medical science but slam already knew that alkohol was not good for the body.
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According to the Qur’an God created everything. And he also told us of something regarding his creations. Things that could not be possibly understood at that time. Some are just recently understood. And I’m sure more will be understood In the future.
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So god created everything because the Koran says so? You have heard of circular reasoning before?
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This Book is not to be doubted…. As for the unbelievers, it is the same whether or not you forewarn them; they will not have faith. God has set a seal upon their hearts and ears; their sight is dimmed and grievous punishment awaits them.
Quran 2:1/2:6-2:10
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It’s not the fault of non believers; god had set a seal upon their hearts
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Sorry for my english errors
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I’m not an English man so, you don’t blame me
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The Proper Meaning of Islamic terminology and Islamic characteristics
We find general and common terms such as Islamic history, Islamic culture, Muslim scholars, Islamic sciences, Islamic law, Islamic countries, Muslim peoples, Muslim rulers and many others. So what is meant by an Islamic term? What is the specific definition of Islam so as not to be confused and misunderstood?
Is the meaning of Islam is related to the Muhammadian Sharia/Law/code and the Koran and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh? But the Muhammadian Sharia/Law/code, the Koran and the Prophet Muhammad all affirm that Islam is much, much older than them. So it is clear and strange that the common understanding and common sources attribute Islam to a body while the same body denies this relationship or descent. Where did this relationship or descent come from? And what is the validity of those Islamic terms?
The answer is clear and logical, but it is abandoned and even rejected. The true laws/codes are all ways leading to a single Religion, but not any law is a Religion by itself, as well as Muhammadian Sharia/Law/code and is only one of the laws lead to Religion. For example, if a house is located on the road leading to Beirut, it cannot be said that this house is located in Beirut.
The Creator sent to every, and each, nation in the universe and in our little earth a messenger and a law in their language to guide them to Religion. And each nation has a name for the Religion and for the Creator according to their language, but the Creator is one and the Religion is one. If there are multiple Religions, it means that there are multiple creators, and this is impossible. The Religion called by the Bharat (who are referred to by a term derived from the Persian language as the Indians) call this Religion “Dharma” meaning the natural law. While the Arabs call this Religion “Islam”; and the Mazdayasna (later became Zoroastrianism) call the same Religion “Asha”, meaning truth and order
But the confusion and error in naming the Muhammadian Sharia as Islam or Religion is the result of the kidnapping and falsification of Muhammadian law by the Turkic-Mongolians since the Umayyad era and the following eras and even today; and their use of that Sharia after falsification as means of claiming Religion and giving them justification for invasion and expansion and occupation. Therefore, these false Islamic terms refer to false Muhammadian Law only; because the right meaning of Islamic is Religious, without any definition, and should include all true laws without discrimination in the globe and in the whole universe.
The Muhammadian Sharia turned into what is now known as Islam, which deserves to be called the Turkic Islam, to distinction it from true Islam or the Religion. Turkic Islam began to form immediately after the Prophet’s migration to Yathrib (now called Medina) after the threat of Arabs, especially Quraysh. Immediately after the emigration to Yathrib, the Muhammadian Law was held hostage by the Bedouins (who are not Arabs and were called Ansar) and Jews, and both were partners of Persians and the Romans, and all of them are Turkic-Mongolians.
Then immediately after the death of the Prophet and throughout the period of the Caliphate, they stepped up their campaign against the Muhammadian Law and kidnapped it, and their believers and caliphs were assassinated and poisoned and persecuted. And they ignited the great Fitnas and civil wars; and bought the Umayyad and put them for a short-term in sham power to deceive and appease Quraysh and the Arabs.
Then Turkic-Mongolians killed their Umayyad allies and obliterated them and established the Abbasid state which carried out the complete forgery which continues to this day. So it is clear that the Muhammadian Sharia was killed in the cradle and its dress was stole and now pagan idolatry Turkic-Mongolians is wearing it and called itself a religion; but it is in fact an organization that should be called Turkic Islam.
The real problem with both Muhammadians and non-Muhammadians is that they cannot part from the old common misconception promoted by corrupt institutions such as Al-Azhar, churches and others since the Umayyad era that Turkic Islam is the Islam and that Islam came only with the Koran and that the Religion has only one name which is Islam.
Faith in every Sharia is to follow its messenger and to abide by the specific duties prescribed in its law. And faith in the Muhammadian Sharia is defined by the testimony that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is a Messenger of Allah and to perform prayers and the provision of Zakat and pilgrimage of the Sacred House. And similarly, the belief in the Sharia of Yeshua (Jesus) is to testimony that there is no god except Elohim and Jesus is a messenger of Elohim and the performance of their worship. The same applies with other uncountable messengers.
Original Mazdayasna, not the present form, for example, is one of the oldest codes and faith in it takes to the Religion, but in that nation and other nations the names of Religion are different. Even Kemet (the ancient Egyptians), Kerma (the ancient Nubians), the Assyrians, the Bharat (the ancient Indians), and all European and African nations had their own codes that qualified them to describe as Religious or monotheists, but in each nation the name of Religion was different but its content was the same. No any individual code could not be described rightfully as the Religion or even a religion. https://wp.me/p1OEJz-1wQ
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Reblogged this on Interdenominational Assembly of Churches.
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