why i don’t support marriage

No, that’s click-bait. Local man is unable to can so we will all make do with this post, for now.

But it is a response to why I don’t support same sex marriage, as if one cares for your opinion.

Dear reader, you have heard the claim

since God is love, he must surely approve of any kind of human love, including SSM.?

Did you know that

This argument fails on two accounts.?

I am sure you did not know. We are told

Firstly, nobody approves of “all kinds” of love. If I’m married to woman A, I’m not allowed to also marry woman B; and if woman B is already married, I can’t marry her even if I’m single myself. And if she is actually an under-age girl, any attempt to woo her will rightly land me in prison!

which is a fallacious argument. We don’t marry all those we love. I love my father, but I am not about to marry him. And there are people who have gotten married without love. So it is possible to approve “all kinds” of love, without marrying the people loved.

In the second argument we are told

Secondly, when we talk about God’s love, we’re not talking about romantic love. It’s quite a serious category mistake to equate God’s holy, self-sacrificial love, driven by a desire to set us free from sin and death and bring us back into his Kingdom, with our fickle human love which depends so much on feelings and selfish desires!

This preceding argument is wrought with many problems. First among them, we don’t know which god is being referred to here. There is Cupid/Eros gods of love and desire. And as far as I can tell, it is desire for romantic love not some abstract love. The second problem with this argument is many theologians have told us we cannot know the mind nor the nature of god and therefore we are not in a position to comment on what god loves or does not. We have no idea of any other love other than that which we express in human language.

The pastor writes

it’s never OK to disagree with the Word of God. We may sometimes find we have misunderstood the Bible, and therefore have to change our belief based on this improved understanding – but we’re never at liberty to simply disregard what God has said!

which means, it is not the bible that is wrong for example in commanding that you shall not suffer a witch to live or that you can beat up your slave as long as they don’t die the same day, but that it is us who have misunderstood the word of god. If you are not stoning your wives for wearing mixed garments, you are disregarding the word of god and hell awaits you.

Now, to the ridiculous

It seems fairly obvious that before Adam sinned, slavery wasn’t a thing; and in eternity, slavery will no longer be a thing. So it’s perfectly logical for the church to oppose slavery: the Bible is clearly pointing that way itself.

which is saying nothing really. For fucks sake, how many days were there between Adam being created an idiot and him eating the apple? How many people were there to be enslaved? The bible was used by those pro and anti slavery to bolster their positions. There is no clear command in the bible that says, fuckers, thou shall keep no slaves.

The pastor continues

The same goes for gender discrimination. Even though it’s always been an aspect of sinful human society, and Paul gives guidelines for how that should play out in the Christian community, it’s fairly clear that originally, the only difference was biological.

and ffs, how is this any less problematic? In fact, the way women are disregarded in the bible is not just seen in Paul’s writing but throughout. Most women have no names. I’ll wait for who will tell me the name of Lot’s wife or Potiphar’s wife. I am waiting.

We are told, for those who may have been unaware, that while the bible makes allowances for patriarchy and slavery and while moving towards abolishing them, the same cannot be said for homosexuality. He says

The Bible makes cultural allowances for divorce and polygamy (again: allowing, not approving!), but the movement is clearly back towards the starting point: life-long monogamous heterosexual marriage.

If Paul is to be believed, the movement is towards celibacy, which must have been the original idea in the first creation stories where Adam was created alone. Or maybe he was to be intimate with goats and lions because shortly later, we find warnings to not sleep with goats.

If the pastor wants to have this

I think we can justifiably assume that when Jesus condemns “immoralities” in Mark 7:21 (the Greek word is plural), this would have included everything OT Law considered immoral, including homosexuality.

the question is, why stop at homosexuality or same sex marriage? Are there greater or lesser sins? And how are they weighted? I know the only sin the authors of the NT thought weighed many kilograms was sin against the spirit (Mark 3:28–29, Matthew 12:31–32, and Luke 12:10). In fact, if the pastor is treating homosexuality as a sin, then it is forgivable.

The pastor concludes with love the sinner, but condemn the sin. In his words

obviously homosexuals can be followers of Jesus. Rejecting SSM must never mean that we reject those who experience same-sex attraction. Everyone is welcome in the Kingdom of God, regardless of their flaws and weaknesses; after all, we’re all weak and sinful and in need of the forgiveness and restoration only Jesus provides.

which always leaves me asking why would women still be in church? And why would any gay person remain a member of a church who sees them as living in sin?

Well, anyone who wants to marry, by all means, marry. Anyone who doesn’t want to, should not. And anyone who is not sure, maybe should get married and if they don’t like it, leave it.

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

35 thoughts on “why i don’t support marriage

  1. Barry says:

    Perhaps someone could point the good pastor to Towards A Quaker View Of Sex. Admittedly the publication is now 55 years old and we have moved on from there, but it would be a good place for him to start. However I suspect the fact that it makes room for possible relationships that involve more than two individuals might be a leap too far for him.

    A formal marriage might be an advantage in some jurisdictions – rights to property, tax benefits, security of housing, care of children, etc. But in some jurisdictions, and Aotearoa New Zealand is one, it doesn’t make the slightest difference. It’s the nature of the relationship and not some certificate that is all important. Here, 3 out of 5 adult partnerships are not registered. Personally, I think it’s time the state got out of the business of registering marriages altogether.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. renudepride says:

    I have no hesitation in completely disregarding any of the juvenile and biased assessments of anyone over any institution, religious or secular, that they claim to be infallible. I happen to believe that they’re all asinine idiots – but because of my beliefs, does that make it so? Of course not.

    An excellent posting on the absurdity of the limitations of love. Thank you, my Kenyan brother! 🙂 Naked hugs!

    Liked by 1 person

  3. I’m writing a piece called “Why I Don’t Support Bigoted Christians Who Shove Their Effing Morality Down My Throat Every Day.” I’m gonna print it up into flyers and hand it out at all the Christian churches in Chicago. I’m going to keep on doing that even if I’m told they want me to stop. As a matter of fact, the more Christians tell me they don’t want me to shove my flyers with my opinions on them into the hands and down the throats, the more I’m gonna do it. Ya see, I’m called on by a higher power to do so. It’s outta my control.

    Liked by 2 people

    • makagutu says:

      You must do it. Especially when the gods demand it

      Liked by 1 person

    • basenjibrian says:

      I am a little worried by this Plan, ibtd. These heartland Christians, the salt of earth, morans, are your core electorate. And we need you in the Senate and beyond with your special program!

      Instead, I would join a local evangelical church, through your fervor rise to the pastorship, and use your position to catapult yourself into the White House. You have time. Preznit Mango Menace has just announced that the investigation “stole” precious time from his oh so busy administration and he should be allowed to stay in office indefinitely. You can slide right in after him. After a deep steam cleaning, you can settle in for the long haul!


  4. basenjibrian says:

    The logical fallacies, just so statements, and pious “we still lurve you” blather is mouth gapingly irritating.

    He gives us no structure for determining when a doctrine is/was “human misunderstanding” and when it is SET IN STONE THE WORD OF GAWD. His cherries are not only picked but badly fermented and rotten. Other than his own culturally based prejudices and presuppositions. As you note in your scathing and amusing takedown, a Confederate statesman from 1850s United States would have torn apart his anti-slavery arguments with his very own Holy Book.

    “Secondly, when we talk about God’s love, we’re not talking about romantic love. It’s quite a serious category mistake to equate God’s holy, self-sacrificial love, driven by a desire to set us free from sin and death and bring us back into his Kingdom, with our fickle human love which depends so much on feelings and selfish desires!”

    This is utter NONSENSE in the context of an Three Omnis deity. How can such aseitic deity “sacrifice” anything in any way? His sacrifice is meaningless (Read Anne Rice’s Memnoch the Devil….fascinating rejection of the “Christ suffered for us” argument)

    Plus, I read the Bible as saying our purpose is to cravenly worship Yahweh. He doesn’t really care about us except as worshippers! Plus, He CREATED evil. He CREATED death as a result of a snit that His imperfect creation stumbled a bit. He defined all of the punishments, so there is no need for complicated, bloody atonement games and two thousand year gaps marred by ridiculous religious wars.

    The pious and pompous CERTITUDE of these Bible Babblers, even the “liberal” ones like this, is mind blasting in its stupidity!

    Liked by 1 person

  5. “allowing, not approving” That is always a wonderful excuse for Christians to try to explain why their god was fine with things it says not to do. This makes no sense since this god doesn’t have to “allow” anything, and has been a murderous bastard many times “not allowing” these things.

    and yes, JC and Paul were all about celibacy. Plenty of Christians were too until they realized that their nonsense would die out if they didn’t get to breeding. Since this god is unfashionably late and making its believers look like idiots, they had to approve of marriage or die out.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. I’ve never married, not because I oppose it, but because all my relationships which might have resulted in marriage turned sour first. Marriage isn’t the natural state of people, it is an artificially created social institution.

    Does marriage require love? I think it requires commitment.

    Do sexual relations require love? I think it requires lust.

    Is romantic love really love? Or, is it just a person’s selfish infatuation with someone they don’t know very well yet?

    Then, what is love? How about kindness, compassion, empathy, generosity, openness, and trust?


    • makagutu says:

      #1 does marriage require love? Far from it. There are loveless marriages. Fear is a good component. Fear of what people might say if you walked away. Fear of what others will think if you are not married.
      #2 i think all they require is opportunity
      #3 hard to draw the difference
      #4 depends on who you ask

      Liked by 2 people

      • judyt54 says:

        too often what passes for love turns out to be a symbiotic relationship of victim and possessor. “I love him soooo much” she whispers, nursing the bruise on her arm…it’s also a nearly unbreakable bond, as any mother will tell you, as she watches her daughter leave the hospital with her arm in a cast, the arm the daughter’s boyfriend broke because the beer wasn’t cold enough…
        Been there, and I know how hard it is to get away from it, even when you try. It’s probably the perfect emotional relationship, and the most deadly.

        What we think of as romantic love requires $$$, passion, total commitment, $$$, and a wad of concessions on both sides to ‘make it work”. If you have to work that hard, for the lord’s sake, reconsider.


    • In Japan, it is believed that the more emotions there is in marriage the less likely it will succeed.

      Liked by 1 person

      • makagutu says:

        Interesting. I need to read more on this. What emotions do they mean in this case?


        • All the range of emotions humans exhibit. Emotions are not something strictly disparate – they’re connected. So I think the statement is not about picking and choosing but rather toning down the emotions and being calm, methodical and rational (in contrast to what we see in Disney movies). I’m convinced all successful marriages have this. The statement came from a Japanese professor who taught me at the University of Reading. I learnt a lot from him. He was the same professor who told me robots will someday conduct weddings in Japan and that Japanese youth are not marrying because they have become very selfish. I think us, the current generation, we have all become selfish.


  7. Do you know my dream…?
    To be a faithful husband.

    I think only those who are married into their 70s and 80s can tell us whether there is value or not in marrying.

    Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      That’s a good dream.

      Even them, I think they would be biased.


    • judyt54 says:

      we’ve been married 52 years. wow. Marriage is a wagonload of concessions, both good and bad. We shout our way through the bad parts and usually come to an agreement to shift a little, or ignore what the other is doing.
      The value is, you are not alone. You have a partner to help (sometimes literally) with the heavy lifting. And marriage also guarantees a safety net if a partner dies. Without that net of legality, you have very few rights as to inheritance or possession.
      Values are changing. Most people married because they wanted children, or had to, because of pregnancy. Now things are far freer, and it’s about choice, not need.

      Liked by 1 person

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