And here is the science to prove it. Do you, dear reader, know what mature creation is? Wonder no more. Mature creation is
is the idea that God created (on Day 4) the sun fully functioning with all those zillions of gamma photons already in place at all depths in the solar interior.
I must at this point say our author is not convinced this is a good enough explanation and suggests the answer lies with Einstein’s theory of relativity. How do we do this?
And we time those events by when an Earth observer could see the events happening.Thus when the light from the sun first arrived at the Earth it was Day 4. It does not matter, it is even irrelevant, how long the light took to travel(emphasis his).
Is he saying what I think he is saying? That the sun had been created many weeks earlier but the observer on earth saw it on the fourth day? and is this really the language of the bible? Does the narrator in Genesis say light reached the earth on the fourth day or that god created the sun on the fourth day? Or the light reaching the earth on the fourth day and god creating the earth on the fourth day mean the same thing?
John tell us
This is the language of the Bible. Events occur when they are observed. The sun was first seen by Earth observers on Day 4 and that defines when the sun was created. That event occurred 3 days after God created the Earth on Day 1 about 6 thousand years ago. See Related Reading for more information on this.
And I call BS.
But it is this comment below that floored me.
Good afternoon, some time ago while going through a deep depression question my faith, there was so much that with my limited knowledge I could not explain. Then I found the website of Hugh Ross but I could not believe that the universe was millions of years old, this presented more questions than answers. After praying to God for really knowing the truth, I found Jason Lisle and you Mr. HARTNETT, I am very grateful to God for having found people who believe in the creation of approximately 6,000 years. I still have many questions to answer, but now I have a reason to live, a motive that fills me completely.
Dear reader, what are you waiting for to find meaning in your lives? God is calling you. The earth is 6000 years old. And the sun just a few weeks older than the earth.
Random thoughts 
Well, if the suns rays took four days to reach earth, this might be at least worth a chuckle, but it’s that 8 minute 20 seconds thing still has me stuck in atheism.
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Maybe the sun was far far away that the light needed four days to get here and it has been moving closer to us since the day of creation and now it only takes 8 min 20 sec.
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That would explain the ice age too. Thanks Boss. I can sleep now
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Exactly. And it might have lasted a week (god time). You should also be aware that god counts differently from us
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You’ll make a fine preacher. You just need to flower/up your nonsense quotient just a hair. Hallelujah Brotha!!
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I am working on my preaching gig. It is the only gig that is economic collapse proof. Pastors don’t go burst even in bad economic times
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I think they actually make more money in recession. People will pay good money to have hope.
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Exactly. So i must work my preacher gig quite well
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I’ll be the first row deacon. That sometimes can double as treasurer. I’ll be “Deacon Jim” say hallelujah!
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I like your thinking. I have this already worked out. When we launch, you will be there as Deacon
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Make Taboo chief of Security. I hear he can frisk with his eyes…
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Hahaha. That position is reserved for Ark. John Z will be lector. I don’t know what to do with Pink yet. Barry might make us lose customers when he starts preaching liberal theology
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Pastors don’t go burst even in bad economic times Oh yes they do. Most are dependent on their congregation for income, not the Church. Around these parts, no one goes into ministry for wealth or power (unless they’re “Bishop” Brian Tamaki). Many require a part time or full time job to supplement their stipend. Apart from the good “Bishop’s” Destiny Church, few, if any, expect or require tithing. YMMV
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The pastors in my hood are in business selling hope. And now it is selling like hot cake. You would be surprised how their business doesn’t seem to respect the recession
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Of course, you’re making the assumption that all the laws of physics we understand today might have applied during the creation. But if they didn’t, all bets are off 🙂
And according to Māori legend, the sun used to race across the sky so fast that almost no work could be done. It took the work of Maui and his brothers to beat the sun into submission so that it took a more leisurely stroll across the sky. I’m not sure when the sun stopped going around the earth and the earth started going around the sun, but perhaps the sun was so badly beaten that it was unable to move on its own, and to prevent permanent night, the earth had to be given spin. There’s no mention of this possible scenario in Māori mythology, but it seems a plausible explanation 🙂
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Barry, it is too early in the morning to be cracking jokes. But I kinda like the thought of the sun being beaten into submission
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Certainly as good as the paru Mak reposted. I like it!
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I like that explanation for the behaviour of the sun. I think it is the simplest explanation for the observations and we are advised to follow Occam’s razor
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The simplest answer may be this is a conscious illusion. I wonder if anyone has ever deduced by simplicity the probables of creation?
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For creation, all the answers you need are in the bible
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Morning?? It’s 4:32 in the afternoon!!
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Yes. It is 7:34 am
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Barry, my friend, check out the comments by CS on this blog. Here is a guy who takes the bible as literally true, all 66 chapters of it. https://attaleuntold.wordpress.com/2019/09/24/how-to-sound-like-an-idiot/#comments
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I’ve had run ins with CS in the past. As far as he’s concerned I’m a disgrace to humanity. I haven’t got time for the likes of him
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He is a special type!
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Not that special. I have a son who attempts to use similar “reasoning” 😦
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Sad. Really
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Except unlike CS, he’s polite and gentle and even humorous when he argues for a literal interpretation of history as presented in the Bible, so I can be thankful for small mercies.
He takes
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That you can be. CS is tiring.
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Curious, what ‘purpose’ of living is derived from thinking the universe is 6,000 years old?
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I wish I could tell
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On the very limited discussion I’ve had on this very topic, mainly with my son, is that if the date of creation as calculated from information obtained in the Bible, is wrong, then everything else contained within its covers is also suspect. There’s also the problem that if one believes the Bible to be the word of God, then if the world is older by many orders of magnitude, then either God is wrong or he’s lying. Neither is acceptable to fundamentalists.
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Can’t they just do the Catholic handwave and say “Hey, it’s allegorical”
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I suspect a good Catholic believes the bible to be the true word of god
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A good Catholic believes what the Church tells them to believe, but as the result of a certain referendum in Ireland showed, there aren’t very many good Catholics around as the majority voted against the wishes of the Church.
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The church is failing in making good Catholics, it seems
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The Church never fails. It has God on its side.. Quite clearly there must be a Godly reason why it’s not making as many good Catholics as it used to. We could ask God, but as he moves in mysterious ways, we may not get a satisfactory answer.
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I think the marketing department for religion was on top of their game. Any question that appears unanswerable you can say god knows.
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Isn’t that precisely what some churches teach?
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Most churches, I think
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Perhaps, but not from my experience. Mind you, here the churches lost the battle for bums on pews around a century ago. They have to be more open to dialogue to attract new adherents. The days of relying on membership automatically flowing from one generation to the next is well and truly over.
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Barry, if you were to see the antics of one pastor Ng’ang’a, you would now your head in shame because you would not understand how is it still he has a congregation
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Within *reason* 😉
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You are implying a good Catholic is reasonable
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Wise Catholics are averse to attaching themselves to the completely absurd*
*With certain exceptions.
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Yeah yeah. This is true.
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Unfortunately fundamentalists of the protestant kind don’t have the luxury of the doctrine of Papal Infallibility to fall back on. The Catholic Church decides what should or shouldn’t be allegorical, and this has been in constant flux since the beginning of the Church. The Reformation threw out the concept of the Church being the final arbiter on doctrine and interpretation of the Bible and instead determined that the bible itself is the only reliable source of “Truth”. That being so, who gets to decide what is or is not allegorical? Believers like my son would say that unless a passage is clearly allegorical (and that information is supposedly provided within the Bible itself) then it must be interpreted literally.
So while you and I can take the evidence available through scientific discovery as proof that history as described in the Bible can not possibly be true, they start with the premise that everything in the Bible is literally true, unless the Bible itself provides clues that a passage is meant to be allegorical. Apparently Fundamentalists can’t find any such clues for the creation story(s)
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The fundamentalist has taken the position that the people who wrote the bible were different men, different in the sense they don’t tell yarns and as such the bible must be true.
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Ah, but men didn’t write the Bible. God dictated it through them so I’m told.
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I would like to know how those portions where it is written “god said” were dictated if the whole thing was dictated by god?
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He was speaking in the third person to emphasis the importance of what follows. And you ask too many questions. Don’t question the authority of the Bible. God doesn’t like it.
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Accepting that the earth is older than 6000 years would take the rug under the feet of the fundamentalist.
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If he created the sun on the fourth day or a few weeks before, then what day did he create skin cancer
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Must have been while it was still dark
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Didn’t you know that skin caner is part of a plot by Big Pharma to separate us from our hard earned money? They are responsible for the chemtrails which weakens the ozone layer allowing more harmful UV radiation through. I though everyone knew this 🙂
Of course we shouldn’t rule out the possibility that God (or perhaps Satan) has contracted Big Pharma to create chemtrails for some purpose unknown to us and their huge profits are simply a byproduct of that work.
What a complex world we live in!
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Satan in all the places he has been portrayed is always tempting us with good things. It would be gross misrepresentation to accuse Satan of wanting us to suffer in this life
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Satan wants us to have a miserable life in the here and now and for eternity. He tempts us with the illusion of good things so that we will create suffering in others: Promises Big Pharma big profits through the sales of sunscreen and cancer treatments by providing a means to cause cancer in the population. Sounds like a scheme Satan would dream up.
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Well, you have a point.
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Forget about the fact that God created light and day and night before creating the sun. Still no explanation as to where that light came from! lol
The last paragraph you quoted tells it all. Here the correct way to say what he is saying:
Having observed and being confronted with many things that were at odds with the beliefs I had been indoctrinated with growing up, I was no longer experiencing very many hits of dopamine in the brain. I found a website that confronted me with even more contradictory information than what I had been led to believe all my life, and this made me ask even more questions and I felt scared as if my entire psyche was about to collapse onto the increasingly cracked foundation of my worldviews. But then I found this other site that confirmed all my originally beliefs and made up some pseudo-scientific nonsense that played right into my cognitive biases. All of a sudden dopamine was going off in my brain everywhere and I felt much better.
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Haha Swarn. Your rewriting of that comment fits quite well.
Well, day and night depends on the observer. 😀
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If you think about it…religion is just nuts. CS is a perfect example and I notice that he is full of a lot of angst…not a happy man.
I simply can’t understand why so many still fall for it in the 21st century with all our science and technology. Do they not understand the vastness of the universe and how teeny tiny our little galaxy is?
Seriously, what is wrong with these people?
It’s got to be something in the DNA or maybe an underdevelopment in the area that affects the reasoning part of the brain and conversely, the part of the brain that’s prone to conspiracy theories, fantasy and a desire of being controlled rather than controlling their own lives.
It’s also getting crazier, especially in the US.
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CS would tell you he is a happy man. I never understand how Ark can interact with him a whole day without getting hospitalized.
I think for this people, the idea of a cosmic father who created everything 6000 short years ago is a comforting prospect.
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I get the cosmic father who controls their lives, since they feel they can’t or don’t want to do it on their own, but why do they care whether it’s 6000 years or 13 billion? Time is relative..the existence of our whole galaxy will be but a blip in time.
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Dr. Lightfoot calculated creation week to be 6000 years ago or something. I think these people feel they have no choice
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I don’t think religion per se is nuts – just many versions of it are. But then the same could be said of politics, and even cultural norms and gun ownership, among many others. Taking the US as an example, its apparent that when nuttiness increases in one sphere, it raises the nuttiness in other spheres as well – a self perpetuating craziness all the way to insanity. America appears to be well along that path.
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ah, Christians who have to ride on the coattails of science to make their bullshit sound plausible.
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Well, they must rationalise their beliefs
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The brain cells in this guy’s head take 4 days to communicate with each other so he’s kinda, well, kinda slow. But his science is sound. I’m confounded as to why science departments in every university across the world aren’t using this guy’s findings when they teach students this stuff. Damn smart guy, is he not? Well, IS HE NOT?? 🙂
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You say the neurons have a four day delay! That’s really slow. He should get a Nobel in physics
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Well, just for this guy cause he’s, well, as you can see, he’s kinda special.
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He is special and he has a following. That’s what I can’t wrap my head around
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They are carbon copies of him
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People who believe and preach crap like this should NEVER be allowed near children. They are a menace to human society.
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Most of them are pastors. I think we are in a lot of trouble
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And how is time measured? Just curious. Naked hugs!
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Must depend with the observer. They say to god, 1 day is a million years or some such nonsense
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Whatever it is, it really doesn’t matter. After all, our lives are simply “all in one days work!” Have a great weekend, my Kenyan brother! 🙂
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Have a great weekend too
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On the seventh day, someone said that God rested.
On the eighth day, someone’s wife said that he was just hallucinating from eating psychedelic mushrooms.
I heard that the Council of Nicaea omitted her account.
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There is no way this was going to see light of day
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6,000 years? Yes, that is possible. It all depends on the measure of time we use. Why, earth might have been created only a blink ago.
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You could be right. It all depends on the location of the observer
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“and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters” . . . of a starless universe with a temperature around 3 K (-270 °C, -454 °F)
Next week: professor Hartnett explains how Santa manages to deliver gifts to millions of children across the globe overnight with just eight flying reindeer.
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The answer to all these questions is the position of the observer.
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