The opposing side: religion is a creation of the shrewd man who sought nothing more than the imposition of order on a naive people (social control)

The proposal: religion is a bottom up process, driven by early humanity’s desire to understood the natural world.

Take a side and make your case.

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

42 thoughts on “Debate

  1. Arkenaten says:

    Probably a bit of both.
    Every early tribe had its witch doctor/shaman or medicine man – one who may have been able to enter a trance-like state and mumble stuff like a Pentecostal on speed.
    Pretty soon he was the Main Man to consult as why the crops failed or succeeded, or why the need for extra ground rhinoceros horn.
    Funny hats and bead shakers were mandatory and before you know it we have religion. And the rest is history.

    Liked by 5 people

  2. Eric Alagan says:

    Religion started off with high ideals but got hijacked and became another broken man-made institution.

    Liked by 2 people

    • makagutu says:

      In this view, the founders, if we can call them that, didn’t intend to use it either for control or to mint dollars as creflo dollar does?


      • Eric Alagan says:

        I believe every religion – more accurately “religious practices” – evolved. Along the way, it got “founded” by a bunch of self-serving people who then codified it to meet their ends. What ends? Control, power and money.


        • basenjibrian says:

          I would venture that the evolution into a scheme of control and wealth happened very, very early in the history of “faith”.

          Detective Thomas Papania: You figure it’s all a scam, huh? All them folks? They just wrong?

          Rust Cohle: Oh yeah! Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey, “He said for you to give me your fucking share.” People… so goddamn frail they’d rather put a coin in the wishing well than buy dinner.

          True Detective, Season 1


        • makagutu says:

          Control and money. Look at the priests in the old testament dictating the best offer should go to the gods for whom they are the representative

          Liked by 1 person

  3. john zande says:

    religion is a bottom up process hijacked by the first conmen who saw how easy it was to bend people by appealing to their emotional insecurities.

    Liked by 5 people

  4. Swarn Gill says:

    I would agree with the sentiment expressed here in that I think the origins of religion were an honest attempt to understand the natural world. I think it takes some observation to see how people utilize a philosophy to figure out how to co-opt it for your own gain. What I’m not sure of is whether or not, by the time the Bible was assembled, if that necessarily represents some sort of honest attempt to understand nature. The books of the Bible were chosen for specific reasons, and I don’t think they were chosen purely for altruistic purposes. Given the importance of the Bible to its followers, its not unreasonable to think that modern Christianity is built upon a book that was largely assembled for political goals in mind. I think the same might be true of the Koran as well given that Muhammad was also a head of state.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. This whole conversation is ridiculous. “Religion” was given to us by Allah, the One, True God and is not in any way a human creation. The Koran says so. Any discussion other than one involving the proper way to worship Allah and follow His Holy Book, The Koran, is evil, fruitless, and just wrong. Sorry Christians. You all picked the WRONG god. (How ’bout THIS for debating skills, Mak!) 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  6. renudepride says:

    I think that the idea of social control was the ultimate intent upon the minds of those who created any type of belief system. Control the masses and just sit back and watch your material possessions multiply. As a secondary thought, greed is probably an almost equal reason for creating beliefs. Naked hugs, my Kenyan brother! 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  7. Nan says:

    Jesus and God are real because I saw Jesus in my dreams. This was right after God spoke to me. Honest! I heard him clear as my hearing aids would allow.

    Te other contributors here who claim these two aren’t real are just jealous that I’ve had a “heavenly” experience and they haven’t.

    And all other religions are real too because their adherents say so and who would know better?

    Liked by 1 person

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