Since it appears this site is not theist friendly I have a question for non theists but theists are welcome to contribute if they so wish.
Can one believe there is a god and not be committed to that belief? The corollary is of course obvious, it seems to me likely that people can be committed to the belief in god even though the existence of gods is doubtful at the least and their non existence highly likely.
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"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” Lewis Carroll
"That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens
Are you entirely sure that question makes sense?
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I concur with John. Not entirely sure what you’re asking. Might just be me, though.
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Can one believe evolution is true and still be a creationist? That is, can you know A and still reject it?
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Ah, I see what you’re saying. I couldn’t do that. If I KNOW something to be true, even though I may not like it, I couldn’t reject that it is true. I do not think you can reasonably be a creationist but then truly KNOW evolution is true, too. I think creationists simply deny the truth of evolution and say those who believe it are wrong in spite of the evidence in front of them. Cognitive dissonance at work.
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you are right on the cognitive dissonance.
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Yes.
Can you know A is true and still not be committed to that knowledge?
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Can I know the moon exists but not be committed to that knowledge?
See what i mean? I’m guessing I’m missing something.
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don’t apply it to natural things but to ideas that can be true or false
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But you’re saying God *does* exist, just like the moon exists.
Are’nt you?
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god’s existence in my view can be false or true unlike the moon
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OK, I think it makes sense when we substitute “god” for something like Panpsychism. I can ‘believe’ it’s true, but because it’s running on a level I (seemingly) can’t access I’m not ‘committed’ to the idea.
So, yes, although i think this is a question for drunk philosophers at their philosopher Christmas party.
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Hahaha John.
I am not drunk at the moment. This question can be filed under truth and ideology.
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subheading: drunk/drinking/soon to be drinking 🙂
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soon to be drinking but still sober
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Got anything planned for your b’day?
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Not really.
You see when you grow up in the village, birthdays are like any other day and it remains with you. Maybe I should just drink myself silly or get some weed
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Weed and a bike ride sounds nice.
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Ah, I see now! Thanks. Gonna go smoke a bowl and contemplate this more. 🙂
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Haha and tell us the results of your contemplation
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The majority of Christians have this issue. They believe in Jesus but they obviously don’t believe Jesus and don’t do anything practical but pray for people. Probably believing because everyone else is believing.
They believe, but doubt the strength of that belief when it comes to using it to perform the extraordinary which is promised. Really, there are no true believers or the Bible lies. Then come the explainers, those that have vested time and haven’t been offered any other options, and those that are zealots that have not yet field tested the words. After they do they’ll be committed to belief but embrace the shortcomings as their own pathetic weakness. “Help me believe”, no kidding. The story needs lots of explaining.
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You have not met Ham, i believe? He is a true believer, and an Aussie like John
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Can he heal my sick friend from afar like Jesus said? And how much $ up front to i need to send?
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Ask John what his countryman charges for such a service. Though I think he is into museum business only
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I’d trust a Brazilian Umbanda more than an Christian Aussie. John?
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You ought to trust Ham. He is the holiest man around. Believes in literal reading of Genesis
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Does he have a WP site?
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Ken Ham of the Ark Encounter in Kentucky and Answers in genesis
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Ah, I’m a little slow this morning. All the southern nuts come to America to peddle their crap. Kiwi Comfort is another.
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Kiwi Comfort is that Ray? Eh
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Yes. The banana man. Smart guy
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That’s a smart fellow.
Has he any new videos?
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I’ve only seen recently one of his failures where he was confronted on the street corner and couldn’t answer outside of the staged productions he does. 🍌
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That must have been hilarious
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There are five churches within walking distance of where I live. All have window bars, deadbolt locks and monitored alarm systems. Three have security cameras. So much for “in God we trust.”
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A friend on Facebook had posted that “the left wants a revolution. Haha. We have 16 trillion bullets” I said, “so, have bullets supplanted faith?” She said no, that this was faith in action.
I guess bars on the windows somehow is an exercise in faith, but I’m not of the mindset to figure out how.
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this is doing your part and letting god do hers
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Some folks on the far right seem to forget the 2nd Amendment doesn’t just apply to them. I know a few far lefties who are gun hoarders who are preparing for said revolution. I guess God will be sending bullets from both sides of the aisle should said civil war ever come.
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No doubt there are plenty of guns to go around. And really, they place way too much importance on their guns. There are three scenarios really when total shit hits the fan. You kill your hungry neighbors and their kids so you can survive only to die later and face the lord for you murders and greedy self importance, or shoot at the military convoy and just see what happens, or, go into hiding in the hills with fifty million others who are going to “live off the land” and there won’t be a living animal for a thousand miles within a week. No, were stuck in societal living or death. We should start acting like it, but we won’t.
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I agree. We truly have lost the ability to talk and LISTEN to each other and come up with compromises on how to live together as a group. We learn to do this or we die. Sadly, as you stated, we’ve NOT been doing this. At all.
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But who in these groups ever thinks this far ahead?
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churches in nairobi have metal detectors at the door. i think they are not giving the devil any room to sneak in
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Flat-earthers who fly around the world are one example. Christians who have health and life insurance are another. Belief isn’t immune from people who hedge their bets.
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And people who believe in a glorious heaven, but become sad and angry when someone dies, rather than happy for them.
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It’s a selfish thing, Mary. They’re more centered on themselves than they are the one who died.
Perhaps it’s because they “know” that person is now “among the angels” while they’re still here fighting with us non-believers. 😈 ❗
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Or somewhere deep inside, they know the person is simply gone
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Or they know that heaven is not guaranteed
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Because they believe in a terrible hell, they are never sure where their loved ones have ended
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I think Christians with help insurance have argued that god helps those who put effort
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I am a theist, a non abrahamic theist to be clear but a theist in my belief. I believe in Goddes or divinity whatever you want to call it but I also believe in evolution. Belief in one does not exclude the other.
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There are theists who believe their particular deity set evolution in motion. Is this how you understand it or do you go the whole hog? That evolution is a result of natural processes
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Yes. When I think about the origins of life, I see the great Mother Goddess setting evolution into motion.
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Yes, I think some people can compartmentalize their beliefs. I have met many nonreligious and marginally-religious people who say things like “something MUST be out there” (i.e. supernatural or extra-natural beings) but who normally live in the practical world. I suppose it’s a question of how strongly a person feels about ideas which are ambiguous and empirically unknown. For me, the concept of god(s) is completely irrelevant. For others, such as religious fanatics and their philosophical adversaries, the concept is of paramount importance.
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I think you summed it up quite well, Robert!
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Yes, I have a friend who doesn’t follow any religion, but thinks there still must be something “out there”.
I can see thinking there is something, but also thinking that humans can’t really understand it, because we spend so much time disagreeing about what it is and what it wants. And that if it’s not interested enough in humans to clear up the confusion, then there’s no point in changing your life to try to suit what such a being supposedly wants, or worrying about it too much. I guess that’s kind of a deist sort of position.
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This is some way to put it.
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To me it seems most people believe there is some particular god, but are not really committed to that belief. The majority of people have even as their identity to belong to one religion, or a nother, but they do not act accordingly. So, what is the level, or value of their commitment?
I have no right to declare who is a true Muslim, or true Christian, or true whatever, but I certainly am able to recognize when people do not pay any heed to their holy books. Only a small minority of Christians for example have followed the most direct and ardent commands the Jesus character gives in the New Testament to all his followers – to sell all their property and give the funds to the poor and needy, or not to have any children. Yet, all the Christians I know of express (and seem to do it sincerely) a commitment to the teachings of this Jesus character and to the divine authority they assume to be behind his words.
If one actually believed, that the Bible was a message from the creator entity to the mankind, that (even possibly) included some fairly complicated rules about how one should act in order to awoid eternal torment, would one simply rely on the words of others and not read the damn book? Especially so, when there are so many mutually exclusive interpretations of what the alledged god demands from us in the book. Most Christians I know, however, have never bothered to read the book. It is not because they could not have read it, but because they are not very committed to it and the (honestly) fairly silly and unlikely promises the book is generally known to make. They are not really concerned about the truth, they proclaim the book represents. They simply expect themselves to be lucky enough, that they have been born into the religious culture, that out of the thousands of varying interpretations, simply happens to have the one and only correct one.
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mate, this is good.
and i like this
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I am fond of saying there are as many gods as there are believers.
They may subscribe to the same sect, may go to the same church, and likely agree with much amongst themselves, but on some level they all stray outside of their teachings/doctrines. But it’s all acceptable to each and every one of them because they just know they are good with their God no matter how devious or mundane their sins.
If people can do that and present a straight and honest air amongst themselves, then they can sure as fuck think God and evolution can coexist. Or God and racism, or God and an occasional bank robbery, or god and a just killing, etc etc etc are just fine.
People are messed up.
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this is true more than you realize. people have different ideas about what their god is, can do and all.
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I can relate…. I keep asking myself the same question, like playing safe just in case.
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