On Christianity


When we hear the ancient bells growling on a Sunday morning we ask ourselves: is it really possible! this for a Jew, crucified 2000 y.a, who said he was God’s son. The proof of such a claim is lacking. Certainly the Christian religion is an antiquity projected into our times from remote prehistory; and the fact that the claim is believed- whereas one is otherwise so strict in examining pretensions- is perhaps the most ancient piece of this heritage. A god who begets children with a mortal woman; a sage who bids men work no more, have no more courts, but look for the signs of the impending end of the world; a justice that accepts the innocent as a vicarious sacrifice; someone who orders his disciples to drink his blood; prayers for miraculous interventions; sins perpetrated against a god, atoned for by a god; fear of a beyond to which death is the portal; the form of the cross as a symbol in a time that no longer knows the ignominy of the cross- how ghoulishly all this touches us, as from the tomb of the primeval past! Can one believe that such things are still believed?

Nietzsche.

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

37 thoughts on “On Christianity

  1. jim- says:

    I remember seeing John Hagee use this quote in a sermon years ago and he ended it “who could do this but almighty god?” (Using extra loud preacher voice with powerful emphasis on roll technique)

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  2. jeremiahmyer says:

    It is the Christian story and for countless millions it is truth. I don’t have a problem with that, it’s not my story, but who am I to say it can’t be theirs? I always have questions about any belief system, christian or something else, that only tries to justify themselves by tearing down other beliefs. Tell me what you’re for not what you’re against. I guess I still believe in the wonder of this life and I am willing to be open to ALL possibilities… even “who could do this but almighty god?” peace

    Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      that’s a good maxim. Tell me what you are for and not what you are against.
      Sometimes in tearing down old walls, new ones can be built. It is only through testing and challenging old beliefs have we been in a position to build a new science. All I am saying is there is enough room for all of us- builders, renovators and conservationists.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. jeremiahmyer says:

    Agreed. There is enough room for all. IF we make a space for them.

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  4. basenjibrian says:

    The issue you are completely missing is that the Christian church has never made space for other beliefs once it had any secular power. It, like the mythical Religion of Peace (PBHN), was always spread by the sword. And its most fervent followers pine for a return to such secular power.

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  5. davidfriend360 says:

    I am unsure, but I assume you agree with the quote you have put here? Perhaps you and the person who made this quote are unaware that Christianity has much historical, scientific, and philosophical evidence supporting it. In fact, there is so much evidence in favor of the truth of Christianity, I would argue that to not be a Christian is to ignore the objective facts and not use reason. What do you say to this?

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    • makagutu says:

      Are you willing to share this evidence?

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      • davidfriend360 says:

        I always enjoy sharing evidence to arrive at a well-reasoned conclusion. After all, not only does Christianity claim there is absolute truth which is true for everyone, everywhere, and all of the time, but it also insists that truth is that which corresponds to the way things really are. I can’t possibly list out all the evidence in a comment, but I will start.

        I think I should begin with the historical evidence. There are historical records, written by non-Christian individuals, which corroborate the accounts given in the Bible. For example, of a man named Jesus who performed great works and died on a cross. There are even historical records affirming that the whole land was covered in darkness at the time of His death (the biblical account is given in Luke 23:44-45). And these are just two examples.

        The manuscripts that make up the Christian New Testament have withstood the critical analysis that any piece of evidence would undergo in a trial to determine the veracity of a document. For example, these documents (especially the Gospel accounts that tell of the ministry of Jesus), have never successfully had their credibility impugned by the most critical of opponents and truth-seekers. The Gospels themselves assert that they are non-hearsay, firsthand witness to Jesus Christ or are the product of careful research concerning Him (Luke 1:1-4).

        The soundness of the accounts is partially owing to the early date in which they written. They were in circulation when the while hostile witnesses of Jesus’s ministry were still alive. These opponents had the means and opportunity to refute the miraculous accounts of Jesus’s ministry if they had not occurred as the Gospels say they did. But these opponents could not, which leaves the Gospel narratives as powerful evidence that the picture of Jesus they convey is accurate.

        Further, the New Testament, and in fact the Christian Bible as a whole, has been copied down from the original manuscripts thousands of years ago to this very day with more than 99.5% accuracy to the original text. This is more than any other ancient document in existence. In other words, if a person doubts the accuracy of the Bible, they must immediately doubt the accuracy of any other ancient historical document, because the Bible exceeds them all in terms of faithful transmission.

        This is some of the evidence. Does this help?

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        • makagutu says:

          David, it seems to me you haven’t read anything beyond apologetics. You need to read much wider. And with this pandemic, you have more time to do that.
          There are no absolute truths.
          There is no extra biblical evidence for Jesus.
          The gospel are anonymous & are not first hand accounts.
          So, no, this is not evidence and it doesn’t help but it is good for your Bible study group. So if what you have to share is in this vain, don’t bother wasting my time. I have seen a lot of it in my days

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          • davidfriend360 says:

            I find it interesting that you think this way.

            First, it is illogical to claim there are no absolute truths. The claim that there is no absolute truth is in fact an absolute truth, if it were true! “There are no absolute truths,” is a contradictory statement, because it cannot escape making a claim to absolute truth.

            Second, I couldn’t help but notice that while you refute my statements, you offer no support for your claims. Can you prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the Gospels are anonymous and not the accounts they claim to be? Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there is no extra biblical evidence Jesus? Further, you didn’t even mention my point about the Bible being copied with greater than 99.5% accuracy. What is your answer to that? I most likely will use this time to read more, since that’s what I enjoy doing. But I think you’re the one who needs to read more. Or, if not read more, evaluate the evidence from a clear perspective.

            Third, your request that I (and probably others) not “bother wasting” your time, is a useless request. If not here one your website, then at other times Christians will confront you and the rest of the world about their beliefs. It’s our responsibility to and lovingly confront people and share with them the truth. Not a truth, but the truth. We are also commanded to pray for others, and so we do. So I, and others, share regardless if you want us to or not. I respect you as a person, as an image-bearer of God. But I don’t have to respect your or anybody else’s requests to stop sharing.

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            • makagutu says:

              I am not interested in semantics. Your claim that Christianity has absolute truth known to everyone is not borne by evidence.
              Had you taken your time to search this blog, you’d have discovered that you are not the first apologist here so I don’t have to refute your claims. They are not new nor novel. You ask me if I can prove beyond reasonable doubt that your religious book is what you want it to be, which is interesting, because you also can’t do so. So that’s an absurd request. I didn’t have to respond to all your particular claims because they are not worth the time.
              You have no responsibility to spread your particular beliefs. But I know you are incapable of understanding this so I will repeat what I wrote a while back as good advice. Religion is like genitalia, everyone has theirs, so keep yours to yourself. That’s the path to a more peaceful existence.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Quran (2:65-66): “Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers.”

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              • davidfriend360 says:

                It seems that you have taken my comments as an act of aggression, which they were not intended to be. I am calmly laying forth things to consider.

                First, I never claimed to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Bible is objective truth. The most anyone can do to persuade others that a certain belief is true is offer evidence that weighs towards one belief or another. Me asking you to prove beyond a reasonable doubt was intended to open the conversation to the fact that since you cannot prove it, you should not immediately discredit the Bible. The request is not absurd, but simply allows us all to recognize that 100% proof with no possibility of refutation is impossible for any point of view.

                Second, I am unsure of what you mean by “I am not interested in semantics.” I assume it refers to my saying that your statement, “there are no absolute truths,” is contradictory. If that’s the case, then you have not explained why how you can believe there are no absolute truths and yet still believe that your claim to truth is what everyone should believe. It still remains contradictory.

                Third, your comment above indicates that you misunderstood original statement in my first comment. I did not claim that Christianity has truth that is known to everyone, but that Christianity is truth which applies to everyone, whether they themselves know it or not. I fully affirm that not everyone knows it, but I also affirm that it applies to them all the same.

                Fourth, I do have a great responsibility to spread my particular beliefs, because the Lord Jesus Christ has commanded it to be done. So spread it I will. And others will spread it as well. It is a privilege to be able to do so. Keeping it to myself may be a path to a more peaceful existence if not offending anyone by telling them my beliefs were the ultimate goal. But it’s not. Jesus Himself said that His gospel would divide people, because it’s offensive to many.

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                • makagutu says:

                  Oh yes, to insist you must spread your beliefs is an act of aggression. Should you have time, you should acquaint yourself with the UN declaration of human rights and especially that on freedom of religion. You should not impose your religion on anyone but as I said before, I doubt you can understand this.

                  Why should I be interested in conversation with you? It should be evident that I don’t want to.

                  Truth is contextual. And that being the case, to insist on absolute truths is to stretch the limits of truth.

                  You really have jokes. Yeah, Christians like to tell themselves that a lot. But no, there are many people in the world who know nothing of Christianity and I don’t think it bothers them the least.

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                  • davidfriend360 says:

                    I am simply putting forth statements, and make no attempt to force people to believe what I believe. I affirm that people are free to choose according to laws. I’m not surprised that you see my attempts as aggression, since Christians sharing their faith have always had their intentions incorrectly interpreted.

                    Yes, there are many people who know nothing of Christianity, but that doesn’t mean the truth of Christianity doesn’t apply to them. Statements like Jesus is Lord, the only way to be saved is through Him, and repent and believe are all truth. The fact that there are many people who don’t know the name of Jesus is precisely why I and others must make an effort to tell them.

                    Sadly, it is you who are incapable of understanding. You don’t listen because you cannot bear to hear it, and your inability to hear will result in your eternal condemnation in the lake of fire. The Bible says that God’s wrath remains on those who do not believe in the Son, and it can only remain if it already there. This is the condition for all the world: that they are separated from God because of sin, deserving judgment for their treason, and the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ. He demands that all people repent, and one day everyone will bow to Him and acknowledge Him as Lord, whether they want to or not.

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        • Nan says:

          Keywords in your comment: not only does Christianity claim. The only “evidence” you or any believer can offer is a “claim” which, by definition, is nothing more than “an assertion that something is true or factual.”

          Further, there are NO ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. You need to do some reading outside your bible.

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          • makagutu says:

            Exactly. Read widely and stop taking his pastor seriously

            Liked by 1 person

          • davidfriend360 says:

            As I said in a comment to the author of this post, I am trying to calmly present information.

            First, I am fully aware that there are no original manuscripts. A close reading of my comment above will show that I never said we did have the original manuscripts. I simply said that the Bible has been copied with greater than 99.5% accuracy. We know this through the process of textual criticism and other methods.

            Second, while it’s true that Christianity (and every other belief system whether religious or atheistic) makes claims, the goal is to then present evidence to see if those claims are true or not. I do not only offer claims, but I offer evidence which, if viewed without presuppositions, favors Christianity.

            I do plenty of reading outside my Bible, and in fact believe that if the Bible doesn’t match up with the way things actually are, then it isn’t true. But it does, and so it is true.

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          • makagutu says:

            You have been told copied with greater accuracy from manuscripts of doubtful authenticity I doubt makes the case for Christianity any stronger.

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  6. Nan says:

    Well, Mak … you knew it was coming. You have been condemned! Such a nasty sinner you are …

    Liked by 1 person

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