Whenever this block suffers a dearth of posts, I go to that wormhole otherwise known as Quora to just stroll and see what questions people are asking. I like it for other things. The stories lies people tell. And so today I saw this question
Imagine you died, and then you find out the afterlife and God are real. God presents himself to you, satisfying whatever proof you need to know it’s him, and he then asks you to explain your lack of faith. What would you say?
I can tell that this question is loaded with assumptions. I can bet, I didn’t bother to check, that the enquirer is a Christian. They tend to hog the god name with a capital G. So the first question would be of identity, which god are we talking about? The god of the philosophers who set the ball rolling and went to sleep, maybe even died, or the god of my forefather- indifferent. Or that of the Abrahamic faiths- petty, jealous and murderous?
Two, this god appears after I am dead. Isn’t that a wee bit late. The answer simply is you didn’t present yourself when it counted.
Thinking more about the question, it is a weaker version of Pascal’s argument. You are implored to just believe, without evidence because maybe this angry god might be waiting for you the other side of the grave. Not happening. Don’t fear death my friend, nor the gods. If they exist and love us, we have no reason to be afraid. If they exist and they are capricious, then worshiping them is no guarantee that you’ll be spared from their bouts of anger.
Random thoughts 
What would I say? How about “Given the horrendous confusing mess that is human religion, it’s obvious that human brains are not adequate to the task of working out if there’s a god, what it’s like, or what it wants of us. Given that the question is too important to risk getting wrong, I found it better to just abstain from the whole mess. I wasn’t worshiping the real god (whichever one that turned out to be) but I also wasn’t worshiping any false ones either.
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I agree. No one wants to offend the wrong god
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A coworker tried the ol’ Pascal’s Bad Bet on me last week. I expressed my sincerest hope that she would not find her heart being eaten by Horus after failing the feather test.
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Hahaha. I don’t think they even consider the possibility they have been serving the wrong god. Or to them any god is ok
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“Or to them any god is ok”
And THAT is a big issue. If they had been born in Mumbai, they would be rioting an burning down Muslim neighborhoods in the name of Vishnu. In medieval Tenochtlan, they would be cheering as the war captives were sacrificed to feed the sun for another cycle. The Outsiders Test for Religion is pretty damning.
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Without a doubt
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My answer would be:
You could have presented this while I was alive, but you didn’t, that makes you a moral monster.
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This is good. The next question would be where do we go from here?
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Indeed. I imagine that god, being god, gets to decide that in this example. As usual, the human gets no say.
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MIlton’s Lucifer had the right idea. Even if futile in the face of an Omnipotent god.
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nicely put. I couldn’t have said it better. And if you’re dead, it really no longer matters, since you are now staring up into the nostrils of a god you didn’t believe in. Wow are you in trouble.
At that point the harshest thing he (or she) could do would be authorize your free pass and send you back to do it over. ‘this time, get it right.”
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if this god is serious with being worshiped, then it should just send me back to warn others in a language that is clear and leaves no room for ambiguity
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“Why does a God need worship?” Captain James Tiberius Kirk and what he should have asked! ๐
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Or this: “Why does God need pants? He’s God! Let it all hang out, baby!”
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Hahaha
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“Hey! God! Ya gotta light? Now that I’m dead and hangin’ up here with your nebulous ass, I’ve decided ta take up smoking. Why not, I’m already dead! And fuck you for hiding yourself from humanity, ya bastard, ya.”
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It’s the right time to try hard stuff. I mean, what can go wrong?
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Why would a god need to ask questions? I thought they were all knowing.
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Brilliant! Pink, this is it.
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Calvinism has the only logical answer to this question: You were predestined from the beginning of time to be damned. Your sinful self is all part of his ineffable plan.
Which, to quote limey, makes this god a monster.
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it is a moral monster
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I come at this from a Christian perspective, just so you know where my cards here. I think the God of the philosophers is the same God of the Bible if understood correctly. Deism and theism are separate ideas about God. A deistic God isn’t involved in creation, but a theistic God is, regardless of whether you attach an extra label to that God, such as Muslim or Christian.
I also don’t think God requires us to believe without evidence. I know a whole bunch of Christians talk in ways that make it seem like that, but I am not one of those Christians. I believe the evidence points to Christianity.
I would 100% agree with you that blind, unthinking, unreasoning faith in anything isn’t a virtue.
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I am quite open to the evidence if you would be kind enough to share it with us
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Before we start, what counts as evidence to you?
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Why can’t you just present the evidence?
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From seeing and debating many people, I think many times there is a communication issue when it comes to getting to the core of a disagreement. Sometimes its better to start with our beginning assumptions and see where we can get from there.
So, what sort of evidence do you think is valid? Personal experience? Historical? Are you open to accepting the possibility of a miracle, or is that closed off for you?
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Personal experience can count as valid evidence.
If you think you got evidence, share it. What my expectations should be the least of your concerns
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So, overall, the evidence for God is the design of the natural world and God being the first cause. The evidence for the Bible is the personal experience of believers combined with the historical evidence for Jesus and different events in the Bible. That’s the nutshell case.
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If I may jump in here … what “evidence” do you have that “God” is the “first cause”? Were you there to witness the beginning?
IMO, the bible is a solid object that can be held in one’s hand(s). That’s the only “evidence” it can offer.
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“Were you there” lifts my spirit all the time it is used.
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So this is what you consider evidence?
You can’t prove or even demonstrate the natural world is designed.
You cannot demonstrate the first cause argument. It is all talk.
The Hindus swear by the Vedas. The Muslims by the Koran and my ancestors by whatever they fancy. These do not make any of these artefacts true.
So you have no evidence. But to a believer, this is all the evidence they need.
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If you were presented evidence such as Jehovah God himself speaking to you personally and explaining how, why and when he created the universe and he answered all of lifeโs questions would you be moved to worship Him?
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Why would there be need to worship?
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See. I think we have a disagreement on what counts as evidence, which is why I wanted to clarify that point before we started the discussion. You’ve told me I “can’t prove” certain things. It depends on what you mean by “prove.” I don’t claim logical certainty.
I would like you to tell me what counts for you as evidence.
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You claimed to have evidence. Whatever you have presented here can only be accepted in a children’s playpen. What I count as evidence is really immaterial. You came here with a bold claim that you have evidence only to repeat things I have heard ad nauseam.
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I agree! Evidence of Jehovah Godโs presence is all around but he only reveals himself to those with the right heart condition.
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Haha.
This of all jokes is the funniest
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Actually my heart checks out pretty good at my medical exams and yet, I see NO evidence.
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Then you need to pick up the Koran and read a REAL holy book, my friend. ๐
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She is been reading the wrong holy book
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You have been seeing the wrong doctor
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