Is usually presented as being fatal to naturalism. But the corollary is usually not asked as much, “Why is there a god at all“?
Why is there anything at all?
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Is usually presented as being fatal to naturalism. But the corollary is usually not asked as much, “Why is there a god at all“?
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Christian Apologists take ‘I don’t know as a sign of weakness. They can dish it out, but they can’t take it. 👿
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Taking it would bring the house of cards a tumbling down.
How are you mate?
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Alive, well, retired, cranky and waiting for a Government-SNAFUed, delayed COVID vaccine shot. Those last two may be somewhat intertwined, which leaves me little patience for Fundamentalist nonsense. 😀
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I can understand that.
Here, we can’t even talk of delayed shots. If they have started, I have no idea. Retirement is still a dream in a pipe😀.
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Good question. Going to have to go searching for someplace to ask it now 🙂
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Let us know what answer you get
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The title of your post put me in mind of an old joke about a philosophy final exam. The students came in for their test prepared for hours of lengthy and complicated questions, only to find this single question written on the board:
“Why?”
And it turned out that there were two similarly short answers that a student could give, and get an “A”. One was “Because.” And the other was “Why not?”
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I hope I will find an opportunity to use this joke somewhere, maybe at my funeral 😀
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The justification is probably because humans absolutely must have someone to blame for all their mistakes and shortcomings. A deity makes it all worthwhile. Have a great weekend! Another bike trip? 🙂 Bare hugs!
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In essence, there is no answer to either question so “we” make up our own answers.
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The two are not equal. The universe is. Gods are unknown. Maybe the universe is a brute fact devoid of explanation
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Why wouldn’t there be anything at all? What does it even mean to say “anything at all”?
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Would the question be improved if we asked “why is there anything”? And omit “at all”
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I think the issue is what we mean by the absence of “anything”, essentially the type of nothing we’re discussing. Asking why we don’t have a total absence of matter, energy, space, and time assumes that’s a coherent concept. If it is, it’s not one I can imagine. Anytime I try, I end up imagining it all replaced by an empty darkness, implying space, or by some kind of solid substance, implying matter.
Granted, just because we can’t imagine something doesn’t mean it might not be reality, but that negates both arguments for and against the question.
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Lawrence Krauss book a universe from nothing was an interesting read on this question. What the believer is asserting is that everything except god needs an explanation for its existence. But to imagine an existence out of space & time leaves us all confused
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Well, referring to Plato, reality is only an illusion and only the world of ideas is in existence. Ones you die and your mind is snuffed out everything ceases to exist. if that is helpful?
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Plato and Berkeley. But Berkeley argued from this to a god which I don’t think was successful
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There has always been “something” because if there had not been, there would still be absolute nothing.
As for God…there isn’t one because it’s not needed.
The something is all there is and it is enough!
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You know I agree with you
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Even nothing is something, is it not?
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Ron why are you complicating life. Not a thing is not something haha
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Because the average person reasons that there must be a beginning, source or origin of everything including life. Humans care about this because they’re creatures in search of truth or meaning – so there must be a God who originated everything. Everything cannot originate out of nothing.
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Along similar lines — we live in a world of beginnings and ends. They are all around us. So it’s natural for us to “assume” there is a “something” that started it all. However, as deflating as it is to our egos, this very well may not be the case. Those who study such things postulate that the “Big Bang” put this universe into motion. In actuality, “our” Big Bang may be one of many. “We” just happened to emerge from the aftereffects of this one.
And as discomforting as it may be to some, “God” is just a way of us validating our belief in a “beginning.”
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First of all, Mak’s question belongs to the domain of Metaphysics. If we (humans) didn’t exist there will still be a cause of things. Metaphysics may not appeal to the scientific mind but science has it’s limits – it cannot tell us why we exist.
1. Can scientists explain what caused the so called big bang? Did nothing cause the big bang? What existed before the big bang? “Singularity?” The simple answer is: they don’t really know.
2. The sun eternally illuminates everything in the universe. It may be the remnant of this so called big bang as it’s still burning. This is my own assumption.
Someone wrote that billions of years ago, before existence, an entity said, “Let there be light and there was light.” That entity is likely the cause of the existence of the universe because life can only emerge out of life.
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“Someone wrote …” Yes, and you just wrote what you did.
Humans have learned to express their thoughts and feelings and beliefs through words, but the standards for what is “truth” tend to be variable and often originate from external sources.
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Do you at least agree that life can only emerge out of life?
…And that a metamorphic rock cannot suddenly come alive and start breathing because some random atmospheric gases acted upon it after the sp called big bang?
By “someone” I mean writings attributed to Moses in the Bible.
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Does life begat life? I honestly don’t know. It would seem to be the natural course of events since that’s how things are now (birth).
However, let me be very clear … I do NOT believe some invisible supernatural entity played a role in the beginning of life. That idea came from the imagination of individuals who lived many, many thousands of years ago. It has absolutely no credibility in the modern world.
Do I know what actually started the ball rolling? No. But neither do you.
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You are right. It is the natural course of events and God is the author of nature. No one has seen one organism transform into another, likewise no one has seen God. So we can only believe or disbelieve.
If I observe nature, I’m convinced that if we reverse time, our existence can be traced to a creator – an intelligent designer.
Let’s also keep in mind that there exists an invisible infinitely evil creature (Lucifer- God’s opponent). To put it metaphorically, he modifies God’s cosmic programme to make some of the codes malicious, so that you have organisms preying on each other. Viruses and bacteria are the devil’s attempts at creating life. His aim is to deceive and to destroy.
This is the main reason people doubt the existence of a benevolent creator but such a creator does exists. We can only believe him, we cannot know nor question his will.
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Our observation of nature does not lead to the belief that there is an intelligent designer.
Neither is there evidence that an infinitely evil or good creature exists.
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Do you mean “your observation” because different people experience life/nature differently.
The law of (observable) evidence does not apply when it comes to metaphysics.
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The things in nature encompass a variety or range of effects that even if one were to allege a creator, there would be no justification in assuming it is only one.
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There is only one creator. The devil imitates him.
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This is not a statement of fact
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Truth can exist independent of facts.
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I don’t see how. Maybe you can give an example
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Example:
1. Humans have two eyes – fact. (Can be verified)
2. Humans have three eyes, a third in the mind – Truth.
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My good friend you have confused metaphorical use for truth.
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I’m not the confused one here. You can see with your mind, that’s what I mean. Denying this is intellectual dishonesty.
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Seeing with your minds eye is a metaphor. You are committing a fallacy of equivocation and you know it.
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It’s more than apparent you have swallowed the Christian myths whole — and thus are unable to see life as it truly is.
I recommend you read my book, “Things I Never Learned in Sunday School.” It’s “bible-based” and reveals many things about the Christian faith that I feel certain you are not aware of. Check it out on Amazon.
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You cannot teach me anything that I don’t already know about Christianity. I was in the church for close to 20 yrs. I have said this to Mak before. I don’t attend church anymore but i will not deny the existence of God because of the behaviour of a few unscrupulous Christians. We can argue about what “Truth” is for the rest of lives but it does no good.
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You cannot teach me anything that I don’t already know about Christianity. I was in the church for close to 20 yrs. I have said this to Mak before. I don’t attend church anymore but i will not deny the existence of God because of the behaviour of a few unscrupulous Christians. Religion is something man-made. God exists independent of religion.
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No. We don’t know whence cometh life n whether it is always been there.
Metaphysics is a groping in the dark and cannot provide any answers to the questions you pose. Only speculative reason can guide us.
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And I assume by “speculative reasoning” you mean philosophy.
Your question is closer to metaphysics than philosophy because it questions the source of existence – the foundation of everything. It’s a pre-reason question. Philosophy will fail at dealing with it.
Metaphysics is not merely groping in the dark. It deals with things that cannot be explained rationally. God’s existence is not limited by reason or logic.
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Speculative reason deals with theory.
You realise there is an absurdity in the statement cannot be explained rationally?
God either is or is not & many an apologist has used reason to demonstrate the existence of god albeit unsuccessfully
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There is no absurdity in there. There are many things in existence that cannot be explained rationally. We exist in a cage called logic. God does not exist in or cannot be forced into the cage with us. We have to break free from the cage before we can experience God.
I’m not trying to convert anyone. What people believe, I really don’t care.
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We have created god and said it exists out of logic.
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Which god are you referring to?
Please be specific, and tell me this god’s name. Thanks
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I will also wait
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The God of the universe. He has no religion and his name differs from culture to culture. Jews call him Yahweh. My tribe calls him Mawu.
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And your tribe are?
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The Ewe -found in parts of Benin, Togo and Ghana
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Do you still live with your tribe?
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Ark, you are welcome to join the tribe if you want to. A few rituals and you are a member of the tribe.
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Thanks … but do you still live with your tribe?
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Ofcourse. Once a member always a member.
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To clarify: To this day you reside (in the village/town/kraal) with the tribe you identify with?
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I prefer to call it an Eco house not a kraal. Yes I reside with tribe. It’s my home, though O still occasionally.
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The terms tribe and tribal god/s still seem to be very much an African thing, don’t they? I know Mak objects to the terminology – especially in reference to tribal gods – but many (most?) African people still identify with one tribe or another, and I’m sure many have their traditional deities, even if they may also claim to be Christian.
I suppose, that, unlike Middle- Eastern gods their African counterparts have not exported vey well or so prolifically. Voodooism could be regarded as a notable exception having accompanied African slaves when they were were forcibly taken to plantations in the Caribbean.
Which country do you live in?
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Following colonialism, African communities/ nations were divided into tribes followed by fixing of boundaries and the like. But this were nations (is there a threshold for population size?). And this is why I oppose the use of tribes, for indeed, what are they?
VP lives in Ghana.
African gods haven’t been spread around since religion as a distinct category is/was alien to them and as such they would be no need for evangalization.
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There is a hierarchy of Gods in Africa. Deities (Legba) are smaller gods. Mawu, the supreme God is what Christians call Jehovah. He created all living things.
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Why do you think there are so many creator deities?
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The idea of creatio ex nihilo is alien to my ancestors. The gods used existing materials to mould things into existence.
To answer your question though, I think it is a deductive argument- we mould things, some being must have moulded us-
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There is a hierarchy of Gods in Africa. Deities (Legba) are smaller gods. Mawu, the supreme God is what Christians call Jehovah. He created all living things. Proselytisation is not the essence of African religion.
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I prefer to call it an Eco house not a kraal. My ancestors were first to build Eco houses.
Yes I reside with tribe. It’s my home, but I occasionally visit the city to laugh at the modern world.
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Traditional homes were truly ecologically sustainable. Employed the use of locally available materials, were suited for the temperature/ locale where they were built and were almost maintenance free. And when the house deteriorated, it just became soil leaving nothing behind that requires further disposal
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Exactly. Those homes are cool at noon.
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I don’t think we have rituals for joining. One would just be assimilated and possibly given land by the family that adopted him/ her or something. But I should find out.
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Merry making – slaying of goats, sheep and drinking palmwine – that’s the main ritual. At climax, a few tribesmen will carry Ark in a palanquin.
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Come to think of it, there was a lot of merry making. So many activities involved parties.
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Agreed.
We live in a world of apparent beginnings and ends
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Agreed. But there can always have been a something
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We tend to think of nothing as empty space, but there is no space, no quantum fields, no quantum anything…zip..nothing…not even a blank..absolute nothing.
And I contend that is an impossible state or the proof would be, it would still be so.
Therefore there has always been something and no, not a god or gods. Something scientific we don’t understand or not even really scientific just impossible to be otherwise.
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I agree there has always been something
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