You need god for mental health


So says Scientific American especially in these times of covid related depression. I don’t know what you heathens are gonna do.

I am not convinced though. I think for some, their recovery is delayed because they have been convinced by their therapist their situation is complicated by some spirit for which neither the patient nor the therapist have a way of identifying or treating.

What do you guys think?

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

54 thoughts on “You need god for mental health

  1. I’m the same old bat I was before the pandemic. Life is not much different for us, except now we’re fully vaccinated as of a week ago.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. jeannejam40 says:

    According to Christians god is responsible for everything and god has a plan which means god planned this scamdemic I would not like to go for help from the one responsible for my problem!

    Liked by 2 people

  3. ladysighs says:

    Unbelievable!

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Well, I’ll have you know, Mak, I died from the covid shot 3 weeks ago. Yep. I’ve been dead for three weeks now. It’s taking ALL my will power to remain tangent enough to write this reply to your post, but please, take it as a warning. If you you want to be a dead person like me, struggling to write WP post replies in spirit form, take the covid shot. If not, inject yourself with bleach. It’s both safer, and, after you’re done injecting yourself, you can use the excess bleach to clean your bathroom. BTW, being dead is kinda cool. I share a room with Jim Morrison of The Doors fame and all we do all day is smoke pot and sing songs. Kinda fun–except for the being dead part.

    Liked by 3 people

  5. Ron says:

    Scientific American. Now, there’s an oxymoron for you.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. shelldigger says:

    I need dog like I need another hole in the head. In fact living your life there isn’t one, is almost exactly like there isn’t one!

    Liked by 1 person

  7. shelldigger says:

    Damn! I just read some of that article, it reads like a lousy just so story*. They publish tripe like this in SA?

    *Maybe they have some actual data, I don’t know, sounded like BS to me and I have better things to do.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Barry says:

    Mak, while the author does have a belief in “God”, the article refers to spirituality, not specifically to deities. The writer recommends incorporating a person’s spirituality, in whatever form it takes, into treatment. In this country, mental health professionals have long recognised that people will a good spiritual support structure, beit a church, whฤnau, iwi, or ethnic community respond better than those who lack such a structure.

    Note specifically the author’s observation:
    Perhaps most interesting, patients responded better to SPIRIT when it was delivered by religiously unaffiliated clinicians. This surprising finding suggests that secular clinicians may be particularly effective in providing spiritual treatment. This is good news because psychiatrists are the least likely of all physicians to be religious.

    Often times, the most appropriate support group is a religious group to which the individual is affiliated. Among Mฤori, outcomes employing secular/Western/non-spiritual methodologies are poor compared to strategies that build on Mฤori spirituality as an integral part of therapy. So much so that part of government mental health funding is now being set aside specifically for this use, to be delivered by Mฤori for Mฤori. Unfortunately this has led to a backlash by some conservatives and racists with claims of reverse apartheid. Somehow they think that a “one size fits all” is the only acceptable model. It isn’t.

    May I refer you to A thesis submitted for the degree of Master of Health Science (pdf document) that supports the incorporation of spirituality in mental health treatment. It relates specifically to the situation on Aotearoa New Zealand, but I think it applies equally to most societies. There’s also a simplified pdf presentation (with references) Considering Religion and Spirituality in Mental Health Careโ€ฆ How Are We Doing? that concludes “In general, identifying as religious/spiritual is associated with better psychological adjustment and physical health outcomes“. The presentation does however acknowledge that “that people experience and utilise their faith in ways that lead to both positive and negative outcomes“.

    Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      Hello Barry,

      This is quite detailed. I will look at the pdf’s later.
      Most times I agree with Jean Messlier when he says

      The barbarian, when he speaks of a spirit, attaches at least some sense to this word; he understands by it an agent similar to the wind, to the agitated air, to the breath, which produces, invisibly, effects that we perceive. By subtilizing, the modern theologian becomes as little intelligible to himself as to others. Ask him what he means by a spirit? He will answer, that it is an unknown substance, which is perfectly simple, which has nothing tangible, nothing in common with matter. In good faith, is there any mortal who can form the least idea of such a substance? A spirit in the language of modern theology is then but an absence of ideas. The idea of spirituality is another idea without a model.

      Maybe we should talk about methodologies that take into account people’s culture as being important for not only mental health but for wellness in general.

      Like

      • Barry says:

        I agree with Jean Messlier, although the use of the word “barbarian is no longer appropriate. It seems that once many cultures recognised two “substances” – one being matter, including fluids, and some gaseous “substances” such as smoke and steam, the other being spirit of which wind/air was the principle component. It could be “sensed” and was presumed to include forms of life as it could move material objects. In fact the oldest passage in the Bible incorporate this concept.

        It wasn’t until the Middle Ages, perhaps later that air/wind was understood to simply be matter in another form but the concept of spiritual beings remained, especially in Christian thought. A pity.

        Methodologies must take into account peopleโ€™s culture as being important, but I would argue that it’s not possible to to separate religion from culture – they are integral parts of one another and that even includes Western secular culture, which evolved from a Western Christian culture, whether one wants to acknowledge it or not.

        Mฤori didn’t have a word for “religion” and the concept of religion didn’t exist until after the arrival of Europeans. I would hazard a guess that this would be true to many parts of Africa prior to the influence of Christian and Muslim cultures through conquest and colonisation.

        Liked by 1 person

        • laingholm says:

          Western Christian culture is born from power and ignorance. I would say since we homo sapiens are of the same evolutionary past and when any god, deity, spiritual ideology emerge they are based on the same premise. Power and ignorance.
          We now know better as knowledge of the natural world has through inquiry, criticism, conjecture, discovery (technology) laid the spirit world out as a figment of the overarching mind of a hairless primate.
          If you said you feel a spiritual connection with your ancestors I interpret that as a recognition, acknowledgement of a relationship with your past and all that that means.

          Like

          • Barry says:

            Power and ignorance might be the premise of many forms of organised religion but I disagree that is is the basis of all religion or spirituality. That doesn’t mean that I think deities, spirits or any form of the supernatural exists. I don’t. These “entities” are the result of how humans experience their world. In effect, they are metaphors representing our values and experiences, created out of our imagination, and might I add that in the past, conjecture played a large part in forming supernatural beliefs.

            While I don’t feel any spiritual connection to my ancestors, for those who do, it is much more than just an acknowledgement of a relationship with their past. It’s something they feel – it’s tangible to them. To say otherwise is to deny their experience.

            Like

            • laingholm says:

              Indeed, I do not deny any the right to feel, it is essential to what makes us human.
              Spirituality based “feelings” are exactly that, a feeling and I would add can move and create I have no doubts about that, e.g. art, music.
              However, none of the above have contributed to facts about how the universe works and is why I remain pragmatic and deny any spiritual narratives room in any quest to find truths. I leave that up to science.
              But in the end creative expression is the way humans work, for better or worse.

              Like

              • Barry says:

                We’re drifting off the topic of Mak’s post, but I’m confident he’ll have no objection.

                I think in very broad terms we are somewhat in agreement. However, much of how we live is based on value judgements – they will always be subjective. What you term truths, I would term facts. Truths encompass more than facts. Religion, and culture are but two of many contributors to these.

                And don’t forget science can be wrong too, sometimes with devastating consequences for those affected. A mere 50 years ago homosexuality was a disorder according to medical science, and provided “treatments” including “conversion therapy” to alleviate the “symptoms”. Even today religious fundamentalists use the “truth” of outdated science to validate their “religious truths”.

                I am autistic but wasn’t diagnosed identified as such until I was 60 years old. Had I been born this century, I would have been subjected to similar “conversion therapy” in the form of ABA. According to some surveys, there is an 80% rate of PTSD among adult autistics who underwent ABA as children, yet this form of torture treatment (up to 40 hours per week) is deemed by medical science to be a success story. The treatment abuse I was subjected to by society (and still am if I fail to successfully hide my disorder difference) pales into insignificance compared to some forms of ABA.

                Sorry, experience has taught me not to place absolute trust in science. Science is a tool, probably the best and most useful tool humankind has invented. But just like any tool, it can be misused intentionally or unintentionally. Its measurements can be misunderstood or misinterpreted, mostly unintentionally, but occasionally deliberately. Science might well be the best (and perhaps only way) of understanding the physical environment, how it works, and how to change it. It isn’t, nor should it ever be, the sole arbiter of “truths” – of placing values on its discoveries.

                Liked by 1 person

                • makagutu says:

                  No objections.

                  Like

                • laingholm says:

                  Ok I will conclude my part of this conversation and thanks it has been interesting and I recognise some pain on your part.
                  I agree Science has been abused (Lysenko’s genetics, Nazi ideology) to name two and many mistakes have been made. However I remain optimistic science and it’s fundamental principles (it is always provisional) the only way forward. The advancement in medicine, engineering, QM, cosmology etc make it hard to ignore.
                  I will disagree that there are other ways of knowing truths, facts, other than those said science principles. Sorry to be so hard nose but I don’t trust human motivations, science disciplines on the other hand find either true or false results independent of ideology.

                  Like

  9. renudepride says:

    If the referenced deity is truly omnipotent and all-knowing, exactly where is the epidemic a symbol of love and concern?

    Liked by 2 people

  10. The price of vegetables from Kenya has gone up again here. Are you rich now?

    Liked by 1 person

  11. basenjibrian says:

    Wait until droughts in seemingly every breadbasket region cause produce prices to skyrocket!

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Have you felt like God stopped speaking? Hope this encourages you. https://austingreenj1633.com/2021/07/12/when-god-is-off-the-grid/

    Like

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