Is there a god


On my friend Ark’s blog there is a discussion or is it a narrative on where the burden lies in the god debate. And I generally agree with him. However, I think, and our late friend *my atheist life* would agree, we can say there is no god and the burden of proof doesn’t switch to us. Why so, you might ask, first, no coherent definition of a god has been provided that would demonstrate such a being(s) would exist. There are contradictory attributes of alleged gods that such beings are unlikely to exist. Whether such beings are necessary and in what manner of existence they are to exist have not been demonstrated. And attempts have been made to do this.

I know my empiricist friends wouldn’t commit themselves to such a statement arguing, among other reasons, new evidence may convince us otherwise. That is all fair. But until this evidence is adduced, we have nothing to go on with and as the good priest Jean Messlier wrote, to believe in God(s) is to believe in a chimera with no parallel in experience.

But I could be wrong

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

143 thoughts on “Is there a god

  1. Ark says:

    Maybe it all boils down to the notion of creation/creator?
    You are aware of the argument about a wind and a 747 being spontaneously built from scrapyard parts etc?
    So we look at a chair we have made, for example, and apply a similar reasoning to the universe. Or at least the religious folk do.
    And I imagine we all did once upon a time until the advent of ‘proper’ science.
    Now one can confidently assert no evidence has ever been presented to support the theist claims regarding their god.
    But, personally, I consider I have no firm basis to assert that, ”no god exists” … he / it /she may still be out there, hiding in Graceland or lurking in my veggie patch or skulking on Mars or even in an alternate universe that Captain Kirk and Spock have yet to discover.
    Meantime, God basks in the glorification bestowed upon him … sorry .. Him, with a capital Huh? by the minions who invented him and those poor saps who are indoctrinated to do likewise. …

    Amen?

    Liked by 3 people

  2. john zande says:

    Never let the apologist get away with simply saying “God.” If they want me to disprove “God” they must first name it, and list the claims made by/attributed to this God… then you take it one by one.

    Liked by 3 people

  3. ladysighs says:

    “There certainly is a goddess,” says the goddess.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. God is Allah! There are no other gods but Him. I read that in a book once, so it MUST be true!!

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Guy named Joe Momma. 🙂 (Ah, 4th grade humor!! I loves it!)

    Like

  6. Nan says:

    Actually, it’s somewhat mind-boggling that so many people take time from their day to either defend or deny the existence … or not … of such a being!

    Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      People are tenured or make millions selling it. I think some curiosity as to why so many people take it so seriously is warranted. Besides People have been killed for not believing right

      Liked by 2 people

      • Nan says:

        I hope you didn’t think my comment was a criticism. It was more of an observation … and I was particularly thinking of the many, many “Christian” blogs that write reams and reams to “defend” their belief in fairy tales.

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  7. grogalot says:

    Is there a god? If there were a God or gods, where would you find them? Think about it. We learn about this magic place when parents teach about imaginary creatures. There are many imaginary creatures in this imaginary place. But, as we soon learn, all of these creatures are not real, except to those people who become so deluded as to believe that the realm and its inhabitants are real. And, someday they will die and go there too.
    Religion is, at the same time, a scam and a mental delusion. GROG

    Liked by 4 people

  8. maryplumbago says:

    I would still like to see a study on what evolutionary purpose it has served and is it simply to divide us, create groups and strife and therefore wars and killings to limit population?

    Just an added thing to natural disease, other wars that aren’t religiously motivated, accidents, crime etc.?
    And yet with all of that, we are still over populated.

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  9. maryplumbago says:

    I also think (ha) that people have invented gods and religion as a means to fill their extreme need to believe in an afterlife, regardless of what their particular god looks like, does, lives, or where he/she/it came from.
    They want to feel they are right and will have a special place with other like minded people, same color, same beliefs, same culture, who have followed various rules and have been allowed access to live out their new lives, in utter boredom and mindless monotony for eternity. For it would surely come to that- a fate worse than death.

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    • makagutu says:

      They will be singing hallelujah for all eternity. Honey and milk will be flowing from taps- don’t ask about allergies- but most importantly, there will be no sex!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Nan says:

      OH YES! That part about “like minded people, same color, same beliefs, same culture” is soooo right-on! Odds are the True Believers™ never consider they will be keeping company with the church members down the street that are soooo radical! Or those black people that worship in the church across town. They probably think it will just be the folks that are members of their particular denomination.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. It is those who are letting on about the possibility of a higher being (we cannot use the word exist, because that would imply reality) who are most unsure and insecure about their beliefs. So they are under constant obligation and need to reaffirm their tenuous position with endless demands on others to test the strength of their conviction.
    They are perpetual acting out the characteristics of the doubting Thomas!

    Liked by 3 people

  11. ACK says:

    It’s real simple God’s were humans that no longer exist. There shouldn’t be a trying to convince people their isn’t a God, because we all sense there is a source from were all life comes from. What we need is to show people the lies that religion tells us about humanity.

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    • Nan says:

      we all sense there is a source from were all life comes from

      Really? ALL of us? Hmmm.

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      • ACK says:

        Yes, all of us. No need to get angry about it.

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        • Nan says:

          Not angry. But when you make a general statement as you did, you’re going out on a limb and someone is bound to come along with a saw. 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

          • ACK says:

            Why is it so horrible to know their is a source to life? It is because God comes to mind as being the source? I said nothing about God being the source of life.

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            • basenjibrian says:

              So ultimately, you are mouthing vague platitudes that don’t add anything to the conversation? Why does there have to be a personified “source”? Cannot life simply be a rare, fragile, emergent reality of a universe that is vast and ancient beyond our hope of comprehensive? Talking about “a source” doesn’t really do much for me. I can experience awe and amazement without needing a Celestial Dictator to “explain” it all.

              Liked by 2 people

              • ACK says:

                You don’t know what the source is. Think of the one thing that can’t be created and can’t be destroyed that is the Universe.

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    • makagutu says:

      Other religious believers wouldn’t agree with you that gods are their dead relatives.
      And Nan is right, you are wrong in assuming all sense there is a source from where life comes from

      Liked by 2 people

    • Ark says:

      @ ACK
      From your profile ….

      I encourage you to ask questions.

      And I shall… thank you.
      I haven’t yet read this entire thread ,I prefer to start at the beginning.

      It’s real simple God’s were humans that no longer exist

      1.Will you define what you understand by the term ”Gods”?
      2.What evidence do you have to demonstrate the veracity of the above claim?

      Thanks
      Ark.

      Like

  12. ACK says:

    You have the answers if you read the whole post. God’s came in human form like Jesus did.

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    • Ark says:

      I am not sure if this comment is directed at me.

      God’s came in human form like Jesus did.

      Are you asserting that Jesus was a god?

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      • ACK says:

        Ark, I am asserting that Jesus was a human.

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        • Ark says:

          So, not a god?

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          • ACK says:

            Right, not a God.

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            • Ark says:

              So, who were these gods?

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              • ACK says:

                They were human charismatic leaders.

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                • Ark says:

                  Such as whom?
                  Please will you give a few examples.
                  And do you have evidence for this?

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                  • ACK says:

                    Put the pieces together with what I gave you. It’s really simple. We aren’t created by a being we are the creation of Pure energy that is manifested into mass.

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                    • Ark says:

                      Okay … but I asked for examples of these gods.
                      Now you are appear to be vague and your comments are bordering on ‘woo’.

                      I’m quite happy to explore alternate views but if you cannot supply straightforward answers to questions then your credibility comes under scrutiny.
                      So ….

                      They were human charismatic leaders.

                      Please list a few examples.
                      Thanks,

                      Like

                    • ACK says:

                      I take it you don’t know much about the myths of the God’s that is found in the religions around the world. Google human dieties and you will find a list of the God’s that claim to be God in human form. Look up Divine Rights of Kings it say Kings were called God’s. Think about the behaviors of the God of the bible you will see they are human behaviors. Think about why did humans do everything for God? If God was real he is very capable of doing his own dirty work.

                      Like

                    • Ark says:

                      Oh, I am aware of claims, for goodness sake!
                      Even Augustus was claimed to be a god.
                      And the Egyptians had plenty.
                      And as you point out, there was the nonsense of Divine Right of Kings.
                      But I was under the impression you were making a factual assertion, that you would identify specific individuals who were actual gods in human form.
                      Hence my initial request for you to explain what you understood by the term gods.
                      But now I see that, all you seem to be doing is showing how credulous (many) people have always been when it comes to such ridiculous claims.
                      As to why people do ”everything for God”, well, this has been explained by sociologists and others since gods were first invented I suspect.
                      No big deal.
                      It all boils down to credulity I guess, and who wields the biggest stick.

                      I apologise. I really thought you were asserting that ‘gods’ live/have lived among us.

                      Like

                    • Nan says:

                      Ark, he’s been confusing from the get-go. I think most of us interpreted his comments to be that he believed in the biblical god. Apparently not … ??

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                    • Ark says:

                      I think you’ll find ‘he’ is a she!
                      🙂

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Nan says:

                      Whoops! Yes … I just looked at her gravatar.

                      Like

                    • Ark says:

                      S’okay. You always thought I was a man, didn’t you?

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • ACK says:

                      Ha ha ha!!!!. God’s did live among us just as you said not as fictional characters like many believe they are. Keep in mind how people use to tell stories by using fiction mixed with real events. Humans made up fictional stories about real humans and real events.

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                    • Ark says:

                      Ah … so you are asserting that gods really did live among us?
                      Okay, so we are back to square one.
                      So, to my original question.
                      Please identify ( by name ) a few of these individuals who were gods.
                      Thanks.

                      Like

                    • ACK says:

                      Go back to your last rely where you said you know humans called themselves God’s. You answered the question you are asking me. God’s did exist among us they where humans who claimed they are God. Do understand that a supernatural being didn’t created the Universe so it didn’t create humans? Do you understand that humans who where powerful leaders said they were God? If think I have proof of a supernatural being that created the Universe and came in human form I don’t and I never implied I did.

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                    • Nan says:

                      Many of your comments led more than one of us to believe that you were implying just that …

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                    • ACK says:

                      Ask questions instead of jumping to conclusions

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                    • Ark says:

                      I’m probably just getting confused as I struggle with replies that are not direct and to the point, you self admitted dreadful grammar not withstanding.
                      So, to clarify.
                      You are saying that throughout history people have claimed to be gods but in reality they were simply bullshitting.
                      Okay … I think I’ve got it.
                      Phew!

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • ACK says:

                      I am saying the people who claimed to be God’s were just ordinary humans. Since all these humans are dead God’s no longer exists. There isn’t any supernatural being that created the Universe.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Ark says:

                      Okay … so no gods. Got it.
                      May I ask what was the point of your extended explanation?
                      You could have just said this up front.
                      Oh. and why the capital ‘G’?

                      Like

                    • ACK says:

                      Everyone used the capital G when talking the God the believe in.

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                    • Ark says:

                      Yes, they do. But the topic of our/your thread is gods … plural.

                      Like

                    • ACK says:

                      Yeah referring to all the religions around the world.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Ark says:

                      Fair enough …

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • makagutu says:

                      This answer is the closest to clarity since we started this conversation. Imagine how friendly this conversation would have been were you this precise

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • ACK says:

                      Why can’t a conversation be friendly in the first place? I really don’t understand why you didn’t ask if I was implying what you thought. Speak up!!!

                      Like

                    • makagutu says:

                      In the short time you have been here, you have alternated from rude to borderline insulting when such was not necessary

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • ACK says:

                      You have been a sarcastic dick

                      Like

                    • makagutu says:

                      One thing you got right, for once.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • makagutu says:

                      I think ack is a relation of colorstrom. Cryptic language

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Ark says:

                      Shrug … could be?

                      Like

                • makagutu says:

                  Like Mary Edgar Baker(?) Of first Christian science or whatever her cult is called

                  Like

        • makagutu says:

          I agree. He plays for some team

          Like

      • makagutu says:

        Muddying the waters I guess

        Liked by 1 person

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