Freewill and divine will

[A]s little as a ball on a billiard table can move before receiving an impact, so little can a man get up from his chair before being drawn or driven by a motive. But then his getting up is as necessary and inevitable as the rolling of a ball after the impact. And to expect that anyone will do something to which absolutely no interest impels them is the same as to expect that a piece of wood shall move toward me without being pulled by a string.

Arthur Schopenhauer

For clarity purposes, the following terms when used on this blog in discussions on freewill have the following limited meanings

determined -our actions are caused

freewill -our actions are uncaused

choice -awareness of alternatives

You may have other definitions, they are not relevant in this discussion.

The author of freewill vs divine will wishes to answer

Why must we answer for our sins, if God has already predestined them?

The post is by a creationist, believes Adam was the first man. Let this not distract you from the discussion.

The believer tells us god created Adam in paradise and banished them to earth after eating the fruit. Where is paradise? I would love to know the coördinates.

Religion is for the crazies. It creates a dilemma and then seeks to solve it. Here, the Muslim has imagined a god, a first man, eternal damnation, freewill and now tries to solve it.

She tells us

The first time I read the Quran, I was also puzzled as to why some verses indicate that Allah is able to guide those who are astray, but He chooses not to. So if some have strayed, why do they have to answer for their sins, if Allah is the one who has willed them to be astray?

and it leaves me puzzled why anyone with any common sense would continue to worship a god whose whims are so arbitrary. At least with a despot you know those whom he hates and his favourites. He condemns or saves arbitrarily. A god who would save but chooses not to so it can punish. What strange people, believers are!

We are given a few verses that show how irrational Allah is

6:35: If their spurning is hard on your mind, yet if you were able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a Sign – (what good?) If it were Allah’s Will, He could gather them together unto true guidance: so be not you amongst those who are swayed by ignorance (and impatience)!

6:39: Those who reject Our Signs are deaf and dumb – in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah wills, He leaves to wander; whom He wills, He places on the way that is straight.

Why punish anyone for straying when it is Allah’s will they stray? Why oppose Allah?

In his price winning essay on the will, Schopenhauer wrote

Man can indeed do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wants

which I agree with. The theist however tells us that people can will what they want and tells us the Koran has a verse that supports this view

18:29 “Say: “The truth is from your Lord.” Let him who will, believe, and let him who will, reject (it).”

and it is unfathomable to me how a mere mortal would have designs against plans of an omni- being. I need help comprehending how

God lays out the paths for you but you take the path based on your intention.

one would know what path has been laid by the deity and then how with this information go ahead and defy it. It is like being told 2+2=4 and refusing to believe it.

How does this

If it was already predestined that Adam eats the fruit, then why is he reprimanded for it? Yes, he was predestined to eat the fruit. But it was his intention that first started it. He was reprimanded for that intention.

make any sense to any rational person? Had the fruit not been there, would Adam have wanted to eat it? Would he have imagined eating a non existent fruit? The theist’s attempt to free their god from culpability falls flat any time. This god would have stored this fruit in its pocket for all eternity but chose to plant it in the garden and then make Adam, Eve and the serpent aware of its presence.

To excuse Allah, she tells us

But from the start, just like how God had predestined Adam to sin, God had also predestined that Iblis would rebel, and would be an enemy to humanity. This is for several reasons – the main one being that God wants to test humanity (through Iblis) to see who is worthy to enter His paradise.

and one must ask to what end? Why would an omniscient god test man. It would have been far better not to create those it knew would stray unless we accept this god has sadistic tendencies.

The rest of the post continues to absurdities that I will not bother with here.

I will close with a quote from Schopenhauer

I can do what I will: I can, if I will, give everything I have to the poor and thus become poor myself—if I will! But I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have much too much power over me for me to be able to. On the other hand, if I had a different character, even to the extent that I were a saint, then I would be able to will it. But then I could not keep from willing it, and hence I would have to do so.

we all worship the same God

The chart is a dummy’s guide to knowing if you worship the one true god. I hope you find yours somewhere 🙂

Why Evolution Is True

On the advice of readers, Shuggy has updated his chart comparing the gods worshiped by differed faiths. There are new faiths! And new criteria, like bacon cheeseburgers!

I put a low-res version of the chart below, but click twice in succession to go to the third page, which is large and legible. But PLEASE leave any comments/suggestions below, not on the picture page!!!!!

Shuggy is soliciting feedback, and notes:

Here is the Mk II Guide to The One True God. When the WEITers have given their feedback I will make a higher-res  image for a poster. (I rather liked the simplicity of Mk I, but  things like bacon cheeseburger couldn’t be left out.)

One category might summarise several of the last few: “Strange things He demands:” for things lke Mormon baptising  of the dead, etc, but it’s funnier to spell them out and bring out their contradictions.

My own opinion…

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