on whether god should be limited on how to communicate

On his blog post, Family ties, Nate says, as a matter of introduction

Regular readers of this blog may know that one of the first lines of evidence that caused me to begin questioning my Christian faith had to do with the Book of Daniel.

Nate’s blog is an interesting read for those who may not have an idea who Nebuchadnezzar was. It is not the interest of this blog. Our interest is a comment by rank apologist unkleE.

He sets the argument thus

1. If the christian God exists, he would communicate perfectly.
2. Such perfection would certainly include the Bible, which is claimed to be his “Word”.
3. The Bible clearly contains errors, including historical inaccuracies and failed prophecies.
4. Therefore the christian God doesn’t exist.

I don’t know if Nate agrees with the conclusion 4. One would easily argue, as apologists have argued when dealing with the problem of evil, that god has its reasons for mishandling matters and this includes communication. While this argument does seem to solve the problem, it creates room for other questions.

For example if we accept uncleE’s claim god doesn’t have to communicate clearly, we should ask

  1. why should anyone be threatened with eternal damnation for acting on their interpretation of the good book
  2. who is to tell the true interpretation?

And if as uncleE insists that scholars, who he seems to name only two, wouldn’t agree with Nate’s conclusions, we must ask why then can belief in the bible stories be restricted to scholars? There is no conflict that is about to arise because two scholars disagree ion how to interpret one of Shakespeare’s sonnets. Lives have been lost on doctrinal matters and interpretation of what the bible commands. I think it is only fair to ask that these matter be addressed conclusively.

The author of Supernatural Religion wrote

Christianity professes to be a Divine revelation of truths which the human intellect could not otherwise have discovered. It is not a form of religion developed by the wisdom of man and appealing to his reason, but a system miraculously communicated to the human race, the central doctrines of which are either superhuman or untenable. If the truths said to be revealed were either of an ordinary character or naturally attainable, they would at once discredit the claim to a Divine origin. No one could maintain that a system discoverable by reason would be supernaturally communicated. The whole argument for Christianity turns upon the necessity of such a revelation, and the consequent probability that it would be made.

And I think this is enough in answering the claims uncleE raises on inspiration or divine revelation.

I take issue with this comment

finally you dispose of a real problem for your argument with the statement “It’s a shame that God didn’t preserve his word in a language that would eliminate this kind of confusion, but there you go.” which is unworthy of your usual high standards of accuracy and fairness, and dodges rather than explains the difficulty.

by uncleE because Nate, in my view, doesn’t dodge the question but is expressing a valid opinion. Inquiring minds want to know why god has not been keen to say the correct message, especially in a field with so many contenders and which translation is divinely approved.

I am hoping unclE will be kind enough to tell us what the thoughtful Christians believe and how we should name them. Maybe from his exposition we should also help him and the rest of their group correct all the other misguided lot. I could do this free, you know.

Lets have some fun

Those who have been following this blog for a time now must have met my friend who runs a very beautiful blog with whom I disagree on almost all subjects.

I realize most of the people who come here are members of the choir and someone would ask why sing to the choir but it is by singing to the choir that you get to be corrected and improve your singing or how else do you think you can get better at singing? I will keep singing 😀

This is the second post in a series where I chose to respond/ comment to any blog as I so please. I will ignore the bible verses because as you already know, I find nothing in the bible that could not have been written by a barbarian. There is nothing in truly novel about our existence except maybe the writer of the book of Wisdom who says all is vanity and I can bet my 2 cents[ I don’t want to lose much] that he/she must have been a non-believer.

God always glorifies Himself. His glory is not limited to our deliberate and conscious acts of glorifying Him. Even when we do not do anything for His glory, God is still glorified. There’s nothing we can do to diminish God’s intrinsic glory. There’s nothing we can do increase that glory. This is simply because God is self-existent, perfect and complete in Himself. God’s might and power doesn’t increase when we “lift” Him up or praise Him. neither does His power and might decrease when we fail to praise and worship Him. I will even go to the extent of claiming that God is glorified even in our sin. Remember the famous words of Joseph to his wayward brothers?

If just for the purpose of this statement grant this god existence, why worship him? Isn’t superfluous to continue to do so? You are not about to change him/it/her. Please someone tell me, did I miss something?

Yes, God is glorified and His eternal purposes come to pass even in our disobedience. God’s glory is constant, just like His being, His power and His presence is constant. However, our experience, apprehension and acknowledgement of God’s glory is not constant. And this makes all the difference in the world.

If eternal purpose is to send some to hell for eternal punishment, I volunteer my services to annihilate this god!

You’ve probably heard of the saying, “Never criticize what God is blessing.” If you haven’t, it is a common response often directed at people like me, who often find things to criticize within the church. Another statement that is closely associated with this one is “Do not touch the Lord’s anointed”. [……], Astar concerning the music “Take Backs” that him and his ministry had started doing. […] was a sign of compromise to the Christian witness. But he would hear none of it. His adamant response and conviction sounded something like the statement above. He insisted, “I am seeing fruit from what I am doing, that is proof that God is using ‘take-backs’ to save souls. Therefore, it is proof that I am doing ministry in obedience to God.”

 

Here we have two problems that we have dealt with before, that is, how do we know who is the true christian since all seem not to agree as to the manner and content of evangelism. The next problem is religious artists live in this natural world, you can’t have enough verses to sing about. A time must come when you must resort to the secular, it is the source of all that is beautiful anyway! How do these christians measure the fruit, is it by how many records sold or how many times it is sold on radio, I need help friends 😀

[…….], Jesus says that “you will recognize them by their fruit” (Matt 7:16) What He was talking about was the fruit of the prophet’s life, not the fruit of the prophet’s ministry. In other words, it is primarily the life of the minister, not the outcome of the ministry, that constitutes fruit. Astar’s justification (in that particular instance) was misplaced because I wasn’t criticizing his life, but his ministry. Was his ministry bearing fruit? Yes. Did the sinful actions of Joseph bear good fruit? Yes.

Help me again here, how do we know false prophets? The same Jesus is said to have said how the false prophets shall be known but their actions includes miracles[forget the fact they don’t happen in real life], am hoping that my friend will be kind and generous as to tell me how to distinguish prophets. In 2 Thessalonians 2:9 talks of counterfeit miracles, which fortunately for us all, they don’t mention.

But Joseph still criticized his brothers. He criticized their actions, the actions that God had, in His sovereignty, worked through to bless and save Israel. Joseph criticized what God was blessing. Why? Because the means are just as important to God as the ends. To criticize questionable ministry practices does not necessarily mean dismissing any positive fruit from such practices. To criticize Catholicism doesn’t necessarily mean that there are no true converts in the catholic church. To criticize what God is blessing does not necessarily mean criticizing God’s ability to bless. So, we must not shy away from criticizing what God is blessing, as long as we do not dismiss the blessing in the process. Criticize, but don’t forget to glorify.

Am truly lost.

So, if God is glorified whether we obey Him or not, does our obedience matter? A similar question was asked by Paul, if God’s Grace is magnified in our disobedience, “Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?” (Rom 6:1). And his response?

“By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.”

I could be wrong, was god such a failure? He came here, died resurrected[ granting all that for a moment] and he didn’t finish sin? It’s like an oncologist operating a tumor and leaves a part of it growing actively knowing fully well it will spread. Now tell me who does things this way apart from the willfully ignorant?

God is love. His grace abounds to the chiefest of sinners. And as long as we are living in these vestigial bodies of sin, our best efforts will continue to be marred by sin. God will still continue to use crooked sticks and broken vessels. This does not mean the he approves of the crookedness. Neither does it mean that we cannot seek to straighten that crooked sticks. In the same way, God glorified Himself through the broken, beaten and dead body of His son, Jesus Christ. But Jesus did not remain broken. He did not remain beaten. He did not remain dead. He rose again and is seated on the right hand of His father. He calls us to walk in His righteousness. To chase after perfection. To admonish, rebuke and correct imperfection. He calls us to ACTIVELY seek to glorify Him, not just passively do so.

First the word god hasn’t been coherently defined, so to say god is love, is to complicate matters further. I have asked my friends to tell me what god is and what love is and every one has a different answer. How one undefined quantity equals another undefined quantity beats me. If we are depraved, it is not our fault. The problem must be laid where it truly belongs and that is at the doorstep of one claimed to be creator, no one else. No passing the buck as a famous American president once said, the buck stops here. Better still if this god is what it’s believers say it is, why couldn’t it create all men like Jesus so he didn’t have to come and commit suicide here? He calls us to be serfs, and I don’t want. I want every man to think for himself, to be concerned with his good then he will be concerned with the good of others. And if a god were to exist, let it be said that I defended him, that an innocent man cannot die for the offence of another.

God is glorified in heaven as well as in hell. The difference is that those in heaven are consciously, willfully, deliberately and joyfully glorifying Him, while those in hell are unconsciously, unwillingly and woefully doing the same. I know which side I’d rather be in. Do you?

Am still shocked that in this day and age someone will still preach the hell of John Calvin. How debased is a person to write about the eternal damnation of his fellow-man. Again if gods are to exist let it be written, against my name, that I defended them against tyranny that it was said they planned to do to their creation. Again I say here as I have said, if not all men are saved then i DON’T want any salvation, I prefer to be annihilated. I don’t want to be in heaven knowing that a member of my race[humanity] is suffering eternally for a finite mistake, NO, I don’t want and it is the reason why I will keep writing.

I want to free brothers and sisters from the yoke of superstition and fear. I want men to be free. I want men to be rational, to think for themselves and most of all I want to destroy the doctrine of hell. I want it known if a god exists and has failed to end evil here, he can’t end it elsewhere where we don’t know. Let us make this place habitable for all of us by killing this phantoms, lets free men, women, children from priests. Let churches become libraries and theatres, let art be celebrated and curiosity encouraged.