I know you have been wondering whence pathogens came


wonder no more. The good people of AiG have the answers.

I particularly like this part

First, we must restate that God created all microorganisms. Even though the word germ does not appear in Scripture, that does not mean that God didn’t create them. Many other modern words such as trinity, dinosaur, or Pixar are not in the Bible but we know that they exist. Bacteria were created early in Creation Week and were part of what was pronounced “very good” . Due to Adam’s sin, all of creation was cursed to varying degrees; the genomic deterioration of microbes began at that time. We cannot know for certain that microbes immediately became pathogenic and began to kill living things right after the Fall, but we do know that the origin of “molecular” thorns and thistles could have happened at that time because of the thorns and thistles on plants.

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About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

96 thoughts on “I know you have been wondering whence pathogens came

  1. atheistsmeow says:

    Well now we know!

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Interesting read I enjoyed reading it. I am a science person and Christian as well. Got any more to read.

    Like

  3. limey says:

    Oh the awesomeness of a string of words that says nothing but sounds thoughtful!

    I would love to know what the AIDS virus did before it became what it is now and how AiG proposes we work that out.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Tish Farrell says:

    I love the notion of ‘Creation Week’. I want to have one myself. Get all my projects finished, and get a gold star at the end of it. But goodness, Noel, all this is truly bonkers, and not a little sad. In fact it’s tragic – that humanity is so cursed, and the world full of beastly killing microbes. And who knows what the pixars might morph into. Where’s the joy, for godsake?
    It’s dank and drippy and foggy in my neck of the woods. How are things in Nairobi – wet? hot? And how are you?

    Liked by 1 person

    • makagutu says:

      Tish, just think about it. God cursed bacteria. He made them good first and because Adam ate a fruit that god had no reason to plant in the first place, he caused them to be disease carrying! What is really sad is that someone believes this.
      It was quite cold in the morning but now the weather has improved to highs of 29 degC!
      I am doing well, very well. On the political side of things, I am soon becoming tired of reading about scandals in govt institutions. It’s gotten to a level that is sickening.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Tish Farrell says:

        Glad you’re OK, but it’s really disheartening to read about the political situation, and not just the scandals. It goes on and on, all the vying for power. Just been reading stupid stuff about Kalonzo down in Ukambani. Everyone cannot be president!

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      • basenjibrian says:

        Just take a look at the cabal of conspiracy nuts, fundamentalist religious (and capitalist money-worshipping) kooks, politicians from our more dismal states, and outright crazies the Tangerine Gibbon is appointing to positions of power.

        Six Magic Numbers (Lottery). Six Magic Numbers. I would be in New Zealand so quick if I had the money (or skills). 🙂 Even with the earthquakes. 😦

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  5. Suppose that you believe in the existence of the evil demon (Lucifer, anti-god, anti-Christ, whatever) whose mission it is to mislead and destroy humanity. Then there is only one possible surmisal explanation: Unicellular/microorganisms such bacteria, viruses etc are the evil demon’s attempts at creating complex life form. Of course, this makes sense if only one admits the existence of an evil demon who controls the world.

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    • makagutu says:

      How are you doing?
      In that case, one must ask if there exist two beings of equal power each trying to create a world of their liking

      Like

      • Ah! My friend I’m enjoying life while it lasts. Precisely, there are possibly two beings of somewhat equal power giving rise to dualism and brutal struggles in every corner of the universe. Poet Heine puts it more succinctly, he says, to the devil belongs our flesh (material existence) and to god belongs our “spirit/soul.” The more we strive towards god/superman, the more the devil pulls us earthward into the deep (Nietzsche) by fixating us on earthly realities.

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        • basenjibrian says:

          As we have no documentation (other than wishful thinking or chemical induced hallucinations) that such a “spirit realm” exists, why not just take the next logical step and agree that the Creator of the universe, the only universe, is The Owner of All Infernal Names?

          (Why, oh why is John Zande not updating his site? Is he caught up in the Petrobras scandals? Let the rumors start HERE! LOL /j/k)

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          • When you say “documentation” do you mean scientific evidence? There are tons of documentation in nature but spirit is more of a perceptual experience. Our world is filled with complexity and uncertainty because our imagination is limited. Will you say that the writers of the bible who predicted wars, strife, greed, incest, rape, infact all forms of evils in today’s world. Would you say their predictions are untrue because they didn’t have evidence at the time?

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          • makagutu says:

            VP, it is a stretch of imagination to claim they predicted wars. They wrote after the fact. And besides, if I said today there will be civil war in some place, does that make me inspired?

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          • So you admit that some bible writings are based on facts. Moreover, it wasn’t just wars. Check this quotation: “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men [humanity] shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. — 2 Timothy Chapter 3

            You will agree with me that the most learned people are also the most misled. This prediction is too accurate to be a mere stretch of imagination. Even science has not been this accurate in predicting human behavior a about thousand years ahead of time. It seems you agree that some bible writers wrote after facts. So case close.

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          • makagutu says:

            You are putting words in my mouth. When I say someone has written afyer the fact, I mean to say, and this obvious, that they are writing after the event has taken place. I have not at this point made a comment on other writings.
            That is not a prediction.
            In every age human beings have been greedy, disobedient and so on.

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          • They are greedier and more heartless now.

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          • makagutu says:

            Really? Than they were 2000 yrs ago when Nero killed even his teacher? Or when Xerxes overthrew Athens? You really must live in a different world my friend.

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          • Killing and overthrow is not new. Death itself is not new. I understand that. The persistence and triumph of evil is. Are you saying there has been no change in humans for the past 2000 years? Mak, I don’t even know why we are even arguing because you posted a lot on human immorality/degeneration. The fact is it’s worse now.

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          • makagutu says:

            Care to point anywhere I have written about human immorality and degeneration. And I am interested in your evidence that it is worse now

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          • You once commented that most people’s lives are a misery. Evidence? Look at Syria, Iraq, Lybia, Yemen etc. Humans are worse now because they have developed biological weapons, h-bombs, barrel bomb, jet fighters etc. to destroy eachother. The ancients didn’t have that. Hence we are worse now.

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          • makagutu says:

            How do you come from misery to immorality?
            Maybe if you read some history, you will discover humanity has always excelled in killing each other. If there is any difference between then and now is the ease and speed with which info travel

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          • I also said human degeneration. Misery, immorality and degeneration are cousins. Your comparison of warfare then and now is off target. You have no more argument Mak.

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          • makagutu says:

            I like how you decide you have won an argument. Reminds me of my childhood days

            Like

          • Everyone reading knows human societies are worse now. You were just pushing your boundaries. You always want to be right even when you started on a wrong assumption. Ofcourse, not everything in the bible is true but with regards to the predictions of human societies and behaviour, the bible writers did a good job. We have become so selfish and self centred that I wouldn’t be surprised if news breaks in the near future of people marrying robots. Anyway better luck next time in your arguments.

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          • makagutu says:

            Everyone reading? Did you read Brian’s comment? What boundaries am I pushing?
            Which wrong assumption did I start with in this discussion? I am always willing and ready to accept correction.
            When you say we have become selfish, what time frame are you using? Last 2 years, last 50 100 or 1000?

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          • makagutu says:

            Hahaha.
            I think he is busy defending his ass in the Petrobas scandal.
            I agree with you, if the universe has an author, then JZ nailed him/it/ she

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        • makagutu says:

          In that case, why can’t the two beings or whatever they are battle it out and tell us the winner of the contest.
          It’s good to enjoy life while it lasts.

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          • We don’t matter because we are mortals and therefore just specks in the universe. The ‘battle’ is for the immortals.

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          • makagutu says:

            So why should we concern ourselves with the immortals?

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          • I never said we should concern ourselves with immortals.

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          • basenjibrian says:

            I am not granting VP’s argument here. By what standard are people “more evil” today than they once were? How does he know? What is the measurement of evil that he is using?

            Every generation thinks that it is living in the most fallen times. (And that the following generation is always more debauched and worthless)

            He ignored your examples.

            The only way in which humanity is more evil than our gracious forefathers is sheer quantity-because there are so many, many more of us in total. So, the sheer quantity of humanity, along with the competition for resources, means that the total supply of human evil may be greater. And, with modern media, we are aware of any missile attack on Aleppo, every Al Shabbab Mall Bombing.

            But strangely enough, every religion and social ideology promotes breeding. “Be Fruitful and Multiply”. Or, are you claiming that all of these ideologies and religions are of the dark (material) side? Then why should we pay attention to them anyway?

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          • makagutu says:

            Neither can I grant him his argument. His argument would mean in the last 2K years human nature has changed from mellow to violent, from peaceable to war mongering. There are no grounds for such a belief

            Like

  6. Arkenaten says:

    a la Mad Magazine.

    AiG, AiG, Going Round the bend,
    AiG, AiG,Microbes were God’s friends,
    Loved in the Styx,
    Now Yahweh is a Dick,
    AiG, AiG, AiG.

    Sung to the tune of Robin Hood

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Ubi Dubium says:

    So then all the microbes would have to have been on the ark, by their logic. So the people would have had to be carrying and passing around smallpox and measles and polio and whooping cough, and ALL the human parasites. I guess the sheep carried the anthrax. How did they keep the rabies alive, I wonder, given that it kills the host?

    Liked by 3 people

  8. keithnoback says:

    Oh, I see. It is all metaphorical, except for the literal parts.

    Like

  9. I hadn’t thought about AiG and Kenny Ham-bone in some time, and YOU had to go ‘n remind me. Why, you, I outta!

    Like

  10. Nan says:

    Disclaimer: I did not read the entire article.

    Did you notice this in the portion you published? Even though the word germ does not appear in Scripture, that does not mean that God didn’t create them.

    “Even though” and “does not appear” being the keywords. 🙂

    Like

  11. hmmm, so we can also know that there must have been silver tea sets, Ferraris, Saturn V rockets, and comic books in the garden of eden since the bible didn’t specifically say that they weren’t there.

    the AiG people are unadulterated morons and that also goes for those who believe them.

    Like

  12. shelldigger says:

    I tried, I really did. I wanted to read that article but I just could not. As soon as I get the feeling someone is making shit up to justify their wacky beliefs my brain shuts down, the eyes glaze over, and I start getting a headache.

    Reminds me a lot of Ancient Aliens.

    The lengths these people will go to, to rationalize away the many problems with their babble stories is simply amazing. Fantasies are for children.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Real real me says:

    This sounds like an explanation indented for little to understand, but to some, it may sound like a major scientific discovery, I guess.

    Like

  14. Ron says:

    Ok. But it still doesn’t explain why the Big Kahoona didn’t just magically poof all the bad people out of existence instantaneously.

    Like

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