To do nothing they may repent of
To do nothing against their inclination
To always act nobly
With constancy, gravity and honesty
To depend on nothing as certainty
Wonder at nothing
Be independent of everyone and
Abide by their own opinion.
So says Cicero
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Wise man, although some items on that list are far easier to meet if one happens to be a Senator.
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They should all be found in one person and I can tell you our political class is morally bankrupt
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Good old Cicero. Many moons ago I spent much time over 2 years of ‘A levels’ translating his diatribe in his prosecution against Verres, the corrupt, governor of Sicily (extortion, embezzlement, fomenting unrest in the navy to cover fraud – has anything changed?). Some of what Cicero said must have stuck in my subconcious.
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Much hasn’t changed, I think
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Wonder at nothing
What do you think he means here? I generally think wonder is important.
Be independent of everyone
You hear this a lot today, but I just don’t think it makes a lot of sense for a social species. Unless you are a hermit, you are actually always depending on others, even if you don’t think so. Whether that is support of spouse, taxpaying citizens that build the infrastructure for your quality of life, the populace who votes for you as an elected official, etc.
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“Be independent of everyone.” This idea is stated very often by conspiracy whack-jobs like 9/11 deniers. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, a thing many believe to be true after investigating its validity, is true. Being independent of and skeptical of independent thinkers is something to strive for, too, especially if what they’re touting is, well, questionable at best.
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Agreed. I mean it all kind of goes to the “Appeal to Authority” and “Appeal to popularity”. The “be an independent thinker” is simply the opposite here in that people reject a popular belief solely because it’s popular and thus think they are more right because they have rejected consensus. This is equally fallacious. The fallacy of appeal to popularity is only to say that popular does not equal right, but neither is it any more true that “not popular” equals right. This is the typical mode of thinking of the conspiracy theorist. Sometimes what is popular is right, and what is not popular is right…it just has nothing to do with the popularity or unpopularity and all about actual evidence. For me independence has no direct correlation to wisdom. Now if the statement was that wisdom is not taking popular notions at face value and can appreciate that level of independence and skepticism.
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I think there is a correlation, albeit small, one who is independent for example would be hardly swayed by popular opinion. It is not to say popular opinion is always wrong but that they are slow to judge, I think.
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Yeah, I would agree with that. Given our propensity for group think, having the courage to stand against the crowd is certainly important.
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Wonder, I agree is important. But the point Cicero is making is that to the wise man, no perturbation of the mind occurs. What would strike us with wonder to the wise man are things expected to occur in the course of life.
There is a way in which you are right regarding dependence. There is a second sense, for example, not looking for glory, relying on virtue alone as sufficient for a happy life.
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Thanks for the context in regards to wonder. That makes some sense. In general as I age, the less things surprise me or throw me for a loop. I guess here wonder could also be more related to confusion which is another sense of the word. As in “I wonder what I should do next.”
I guess I see that even knowing what virtue is, only makes sense in the context of a social species in which our decisions invariably impact others. I’m not saying I entirely disagree with the value of independence, but maybe I’d say wisdom is having some increasing self-reliance.
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Here’s another great quote from Cicero that few remember. “Hey! I said I wanted this burger cooked medium rare, not well-done. This tastes like shoe leather! Take this crap back!”
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Hahaha.
I think this was after his banishment. Maybe that’s why most people don’t remember it
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To “Wonder at nothing” seems like terrible advice, though. Not wise at all. There are many things…in nature, in the arts, in our fellow man, that it is perfectly appropriate to wonder at.
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I agree
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I like this guy.
I admit I must stive to do better in my nobleness. I know where my noble is, I just have difficulty getting to it…
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work hard my friend
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…maybe tomorrow 😉
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Tomorrow, my friend, may never be yours or as they say here, never comes
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Well the sun will probably make another pass, but I get it, procastination is sometimes the destination 😉
But I promise to work on it in bits and pieces ok?
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That’s acceptable.
How are you keeping on? And the family
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Well things were slowly normalizing after all of the recent passing of people in our orbit. Then just last night the child my wife was caring for was air lifted to a H in Memphis. Awaiting news.
Other than that we are getting along well enough. I’ll sure be glad when this Trump debacle is in the rear view though.
How are things with my favorite Mak?
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Mak is doing alright, the weather permitting.
The thing about having a wacko president and deputy is that at some point you just have enough of them and ignore to the extent that you can. You, on the other hand, are lucky. There is an active investigation to his affairs and 2020 is not so far. Here the thieves just finished their first year and 4 more effing years to go!
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In the absence of context the Tweety Bird tweeted thus:
Really, my noble Cicero?
Hitler did not repent; did nothing against his inclination; thought he acted nobly on behalf of his ideals; was constant, grave and remained honest (to his twisted beliefs); and it goes on…
The point is, dear Cicero, just because you are dead does not mean that all you spewed is the only truth. It does not mean the living do not know better. This is my truth.
But I tweet this: no matter what I chirp, I know there is always a greater Truth.
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Cicero would respond to you that nothing that Hitler did was virtuous, which is the mark of wisdom.
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That may be true, dear Cicero, but when you combine the title – “It becomes of a wise person” and continue with your list…
It doth read strange and not at all the hallmark of a wise mind.
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“To do nothing against their inclination”
Bad advice for someone whose inclination is to preach the gospel to an unwilling audience — n’est-ce pas?
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You are right.
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