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the love of some Christians and other stories


Pat Robertson is a reprehensible human being and he seems to even know the mind of the excuse of a deity he serves.

If this pastor has his way, attending a rock concert and getting killed isn’t really as tragic as the rest of the world thinks.

And if you think only theists think atheism is a matter of faith, think again. Ijeoma Oluo, writing in the Guardian writes

I came to atheism the way that many Christians come to Christianity – through faith.

She continues to write

But my conviction that there is no God is nonetheless a leap of faith. Just as we have been unable to prove there is a God, we have also been unable to prove that there isn’t one.

and I must suggest here that she really should re-examine her disbelief and her grounds for disbelief.

And finally in a case of irony, the author of this post, writes in conclusion of a long post

It was obvious that neither of them were interested in logic, or a rational discussion. Which was why we prayed for them, treated them with respect and encouraged them to try to seek God whenever they felt that they current beliefs didn’t work. Of course, both of them immediately rejected the latter proposal, but we pray that they indeed will remember it when such times comes. Apologetics is awesome, but for some it is meaningless. Some just need love and the Holy Spirit to find Christ.

And once you finish reading all these, I have a few questions

  1. What is new age atheism? Never heard it till I read this post.
  2. I have observed that in posts where I address multiple issues, only one or two issues are usually commented on. is it a case of information overload or confusing my audience?

About makagutu

As Onyango Makagutu I am Kenyan, as far as I am a man, I am a citizen of the world

62 thoughts on “the love of some Christians and other stories”

  1. inspiredbythedivine1 says:
    November 17, 2015 at 16:01

    “Just as we have been unable to prove there is a God, we have also been unable to prove that there isn’t one.” I can’t prove mermaids aren’t real so my disbelief in them is a leap of faith? No. It’s only when Jesus is involved that non-belief is considered “faith.” I pick one thing to respond to as a way of limiting my long-windedness to one or maybe two answers. I pick the thing to respond to that I respond to (get how I did that?) most strongly. $Amen$

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    • makagutu says:
      November 17, 2015 at 16:03

      Strange the things some atheists say or write. Instead of having only to respond to the religionists, we have to waste time correcting other godless who feel they are a class above the rest because they don’t call a delusion by its name

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  2. fojap says:
    November 17, 2015 at 16:06

    I don’t think people are confused. I think they just respond to the part of the post that interests them. I will try to address all four for you.

    Pat Robertson, every time I hear his name I’m fascinated because a friend of my family now works for him and I can’t do anything but wonder at it. I know D. was never as smart as his sister, but still…. Robertson’s answer is just weird. Why can’t he just leave it at “we don’t know the mind of the Lord” or “the Lord called her to him.” Maybe she didn’t love her husband is just plain weird.

    The second pastor is much the same really. I don’t get why they do that since “the Lord works in mysterious ways” is such a convenient out. We can all see that there’s no one to one correspondance between whether or not someone is good and what happens to them. That’s why the “why do good things happen to bad people” is such a big question for religious people.

    Ijeomo Oluo is interersting, and probably the one I would have written about if you hadn’t asked about why no one writes about everything you write about. I think she’s suffering from “nice atheist syndrome.” It’s a little habit I’ve noticed that some atheists have developed ever since the “new atheism” became a thing and complaints that atheists are arrogant and think they’re better than everyone else became commonplace. Note: “I wasn’t an overly analytical child” “it’s easy to get cocky” She’s trying to be the good, non-threatening atheist who is just like her religious friends. In a way, what she is saying barely makes sense. I think what she means to say is that she doesn’t have faith. She hasn’t had that mystical feeling that makes some people believe what’s hard to believe. She’s trying to make it the same because she doesn’t want her atheism to divide her from other people. The whole essay is about how atheists are no different, just as immoral, just as racist, just as sexist. There’s no religious basis for racism, so I wouldn’t think that atheism would make much of a difference for that. Religion can lead to sexism and I do think atheists are at least a little less sexist, but I wouldn’t expect them to entirely transcend the society in which they live. Also, I suspect some misogynistic atheists are unusually vocal and therefore seem more numerous than they are.

    She goes on about Dawkins. That reminds me of a friend of mine who, when telling me about his move towards atheism said, “But I’m not an atheist like Richard Dawkins. I’m not arrogant.” Okay. Dawkins, by speaking out and being in the right place at the right time with the right book has become famous for his atheism and therefore something of a lightening rod. Definitely it resulted in a lot of hero worship, but I know plenty of people who are neutral towards him or even have a mild aversion. Hero worship is a failing shared by atheists and theists alike. So, in short, I sort of get her point. I don’t believe and I’ve never really felt like I need to give a big explanation of it. I don’t. And she’s right that atheists are not especially different and share many of the same failings as theists. I guess I don’t have a particular need to emphasize how non-threatening I am so I’ve never bothered to write an essay about how annoying and stupid some atheists can be – present company all excepted of course.

    Lastly, the New Age Atheist – hmm. I think the writer there was playfulling deploying words that appear contradictory. However, how contradictory depends on your definition of atheism. I might call that person an agnostic, or maybe just a believer in New Age ideas. Believing in spirits by not in one personal creator god, omniscient, omnipotent, etc., is not as odd as the writer thinks. Many animists have belief systems that could be described that way. Taoism, Shintoism. I guess you could say that these are non-theistic belief systems. However, when most people say atheism they tend to imply that the person doesn’t believe in spirits or non-material spiritual “energy” permeating the universe. I think the guy needs to learn a little more about non-Abrahamic religions.

    Why we don’t comment on everything – because this is probably longer than your post!

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    • makagutu says:
      November 17, 2015 at 16:21

      You last paragraph makes a lot of sense. Maybe I should just deal with a single issue at a time.
      I have never understood why some atheists work so hard to be seen as the nice ones. There should be no pretense in expressing our convictions. Besides there is nothing about not believing in ghosts that guarantees one will be nice or not.
      Pastors whose messages are of hate no longer shock me. Maybe the problem is with believing in a single god, it makes one very intolerant of anyone who disagrees

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      • niceatheist says:
        November 17, 2015 at 17:07

        You and fojap make great points about “nice atheism”. When I first deconverted I chose that approach because I found atheists a bit scary as a newbie, especially Ark. However, I’ve been thinking about changing my profile recently. Now I chime in agreement with Ark. I’m vocal against child indoctrination. Over the last few months I’ve realized that I’m an anti-theist atheist. I came out first to my best friend (Messianic Jew) and now my husband’s family and my family know. Both families are large and quite religious.

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        • niceatheist says:
          November 17, 2015 at 17:09

          I guess once you’re out there to the most judgmental people in your life, why not embrace who you really are?

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        • makagutu says:
          November 17, 2015 at 17:29

          I think there is no need in working hard to be nice. If you are, it will definitely come through in your writing without pandering to believers. There is no need to say oh I don’t say this or that about goddites so I must be the good one….

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        • makagutu says:
          November 17, 2015 at 17:30

          I hope it goes well with your family. The stories I keep reading of being shunned by family for admitting non belief leave me quite scared for most of you

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  3. john zande says:
    November 17, 2015 at 18:15

    New Age atheism… as opposed to what other kind?

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  4. Mystro says:
    November 17, 2015 at 20:02

    I’m pretty sure ‘New Atheism’ means ‘Atheism that doesn’t keep it’s mouth shut about the evils of religion’. I’ve only ever seen it applied to people speaking out against atrocities carried out in the name of religion. It also seems to have kind of a ‘Good Old Days’ sentiment, a yearning for a time when the infidels at least knew their place and kept their unholy thoughts to themselves.

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  5. the love of some Christians and other stories | Christians Anonymous says:
    November 17, 2015 at 20:54

    […] Source: the love of some Christians and other stories […]

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  6. N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ says:
    November 17, 2015 at 20:59

    Pat Robertson and Steven Anderson are narcissistic propagandists. Anderson and his ministry have been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Based on a couple of posts I read, the young lad from Sweden probably has neurological disorder tendencies. He experiences hallucinations, delusions, and OCD behavior.

    In one of his posts he states: “Some years later, in 2010, the Lord gave me an incredible gift of prayer. I prayed thousands of prayers every day, and I could have a constant conversation with God inside my head for hours. After checking off a long prayer list, I was lying on my bed worshipping, and then the whole atmosphere of the room changed. It was filled with a holy presence, that’s the best way I can describe it.”

    He goes on about how he saw Jesus, and not just once. The OCD-like praying is what sends up red flags, though.

    The New Age Atheist is clever. She/He gets the benefits of being a believer (inclusion), and seems to have a lack of awareness about the toxicity and invasiveness of religious fundamentalism which seeks to dissolve democracy, globally, and expedite on Armageddon. I’m fully aware that this can happen in “non-religious” places like North Korea, but their citizens are demanded to worship their leader, who believes he’s God. So, it’s still a fundamentalist, religious culture.

    As far as your last question goes, maybe people don’t comment on all the issues you raise because they simply have nothing to add or may want to read up on it. I’ve done that a lot. Sometimes I’ve spend several hours research some of the things you share. Then by the time I’ve read up on it, the post is no longer active and you’ve moved on. Also, you tend to leave multiple links at times, and that requires a lot of reading. Not all of us are speed readers like you. 😉

    When people are harmed by religious fundamentalism, I get angry. Fuck those who think that getting angry and bringing awareness and education about the dysfunction that impacts the whole of our species and the planet, is equivalent to bigotry and hatred. The only goddamn reason you apologists have freedom of speech is because you live in a secular society.

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  7. Arkenaten says:
    November 18, 2015 at 00:24

    New Age Atheism is where women cry ”Oh, God … no! ( as opposed to yes) during sex.
    And now I shall receive 5gb of hate mail for being sexist.

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  8. carmen says:
    November 18, 2015 at 00:58

    Ark must think so… 🙂

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  9. carmen says:
    November 18, 2015 at 04:00

    When Mak gets up in the morning and reads through this thread, he’s gonna say, “Those girls sure had fun with Ark last night!” *she grins*

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