Odera Oruka notes
….in matters of morals, man appears to be several centuries behind scientific and technological progress, in spite of the fact that great religions such as Christianity and Islam have existed since antiquity. The lag in moral progress must partly be blamed on these religions. Perhaps if in their place we had had the systems more oriented to earthly and worldly progress right from the beginning, the world would have been more positively different.
I am currently involved in two researches, no actually three when you think about the thesis dissertation I am working to complete and graduate University this December.
The first research was suggested by a good friend, a historian, and in in the line of that book Mary pointed me to ( The Darkening Age). If you have read that book, you know the extent to which the Christians destroyed artifacts of the old religions.
In the same line, I would want to find out
- how far did mission Christianity try to capture or delete previously sacred landscapes in Kenya?
- how did my/our forefathers respond to such desecration of religious sites and knowledge?
I am calling for help on this from the universe 🙂
My second area of research isn’t informed by the first one but is an idle curiosity. I am researching on my family tree. I have information up to my grandfather 4 times removed. I also have a bit of history on the eponymous father of the clan Onyango son of Ogiri and I want to trace the line both forwards from him to me and backwards to any of the early Luo migrations into Central Nyanza.
Here is where you come in. If anyone from Asembo Kanyikela reads this and has information that would help me in reconstructing this tree, backwards especially, say something in the comments or reach me on the contacts page. Help yours truly satisfy this idle curiosity.
And it appears, this portion
Freedom is a right of every person: each individual enjoys the freedom of belief, thought, expression and action. The pluralism and the diversity of religions, colour, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings. This divine wisdom is the source from which the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to be different derives. Therefore, the fact that people are forced to adhere to a certain religion or culture must be rejected, as too the imposition of a cultural way of life that others do not accept;
You said, “A wise one created us “;
That may be true, we would agree.
“Outside of time and space,” you postulated.
Then why not say at once that you
Propound a mystery immense
Which tells us of our lack of sense?
Al Ma’arri along with Al Rawandi (?) Are among some of the greatest Arab skeptics and poets who scandalized the Arabs through their open disdain for religion, and superstition, and especially for Islam.
One wishes they had carried the day.
It’s a chilly morning in Nairobi and I thought I could cheer up the non believers and Barry by bringing to your attention what awaits all of you in hell, Muslim hell and maybe cause you to change your minds. It is all in the name of the benevolent deity, most merciful and Mo is his prophet, so it can’t be wrong.
22.19-22These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning. (Emphasis mine)
It must be a sick imagination that can conjure up such cruelty and it is blasphemous, if there was any, to suggest this came from a god, a loving and merciful god. At the same time, it does imply a full bodily resurrection which pose a challenge in these days of organ transplant. What becomes of a righteous muslim, whose organs were donated to a bad dude, at the point of resurrection? Do the people resurrect in the old bodies, that rotted away or are they new beings?
I put the horse before the cart. The good lord commands this
47.4 : So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah’s Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah’s Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost,
out of love for us all, especially the unblievers.
Go to a mosque near you and convert, it is for the benefit of your skin. You will thank me.
I know full well I am not the first to point this out, but is it not curious that the Koran, which is the word of god, is not alluded to by Christian apologists as evidence for Jesus birth as given in Sura 19:22-34? Or could it be because it denies the resurrection?
And while we are here, what will happen to the Koran as the true word of god, when we come to the conclusion that the Jesus story was a tall tale? We already have scholarly work that points to this direction and I know several of us who think that the Christ-Myth hypothesis is the more reasonable conclusion? And by Mo declaring himself the final prophet, who will abrogate these sections when the time comes that an amendment is required? (For those who are unaware, the Koran has a fail safe valve, where some verses, the revealed word of god, is abrogated by a later verse)
I am hoping Muslims and Christians who stray on this site will enlighten us on this matter. IS it one of those buried under the carpet? Or could we say Christians have chosen to look the other side because if they were to get down to it, both their religions will crumble? One can only guess.
May the Muslims stand up
In my earlier postings, I wrote about what Cicero says in the Tusculian disputations about death, wisdom, grief and virtue as being sufficient for a happy life.
In this post, we look at the discussion on the gods, whether they exist, what their nature is and whether the government of the universe is in their hands, so to speak.
It has been said by others, wiser than yours truly, that there is nothing new under the sun. And the disputations on the gods is a good example. I think the discoveroids have failed to cite their sources in their arguments for complexity and teleological arguments. These two propositions are expounded so clearly and eloquently in this work than by Behe or William Paley.
In this disputation,Cotta, a priest responds to the arguments of Velleius who argued for the being of gods, claiming the government of the universe is in their hands, that we cannot see a beautiful house and assume it wasn’t designed and finally that the gods are eternal and happy. He begins his response thus
In the question concerning the nature of the Gods, his first inquiry is, whether there are Gods or not. It would be dangerous, I believe, to take the negative side before a public auditory; but it is very safe in a discourse of this kind, and in this company. I, who am a priest, and who think that religions and ceremonies ought sacredly to be maintained, am certainly desirous to have the existence of the Gods, which is the principal point in debate, not only fixed in opinion, but proved to a demonstration; for many notions flow into and disturb the mind which sometimes seem to convince us that there are none. (emphasis mine).
Believers are wont to argue that it is the general assent of all men that there is a god. Platinga even went further to argue there is a god shaped hole in our hearts that only god can fill. To this Cotta says
You have said that the general assent of men of all nations and all degrees is an argument strong enough to induce us to acknowledge the being of the Gods. This is not only a weak, but a false, argument; for, first of all, how do you know the opinions of all nations?
Regarding those who deified birds and other animals, Cotta says
I could speak of the advantage of the ichneumon, the crocodile, and the cat; but I am unwilling to be tedious; yet I will conclude by observing that the barbarians paid divine honors to beasts because of benefits they received from them; whereas your gods not only confer no benefit, but are idle, and do no single act of any description whatever.
Cotta continues to ask
Where is the habitation of the deity? What motive is it that stirs him from his place, supposing he ever moves? Since it is peculiar for animated beings to have an inclination to something that is agreeable to their natures, what is it that the deity affects, and to what purpose does he exert the motion of his mind and reason?
He tells Velleius, that if he attempts to answer any of the above points, he will come off lamely. This he says is because
For there is never a proper end to reasoning which proceeds on a false foundation; for you asserted likewise that the form of the Deity is perceptible by the mind, but not by sense; that it is neither solid, nor invariable in number; that it is to be discerned by similitude and transition, and that a constant supply of images is perpetually flowing on from innumerable atoms, on which our minds are intent; so that we from that conclude that divine nature to be happy and everlasting.(emphasis mine)
At this point, I am hoping believers reading this can answer us
What, in the name of those Deities concerning whom we are now disputing, is the meaning of all this? For if they exist only in thought, and have no solidity nor substance, what difference can there be between thinking of a Hippocentaur and thinking of a Deity?
And Cotta concludes his disputation by saying
Therefore our friend Posidonius has well observed, in his fifth book of the Nature of the Gods, that Epicurus believed there were no Gods, and that what he had said about the immortal Gods was only said from a desire to avoid unpopularity. He could not be so weak as to imagine that the Deity has only the outward features of a simple mortal, without any real solidity; that he has all the members of a man, without the least power to use them—a certain unsubstantial pellucid being, neither favorable nor beneficial to any one, neither regarding nor doing anything. There can be no such being in nature; and as Epicurus said this plainly, he allows the Gods in words, and destroys them in fact; and if the Deity is truly such a being that he shows no favor, no benevolence to mankind, away with him! For why should I entreat him to be propitious? He can be propitious to none, since, as you say, all his favor and benevolence are the effects of imbecility.
And yours truly agrees.